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Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

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Author
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2012-06-16 13:37:06 UTC
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#102 - 2012-06-16 20:14:38 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?

I am thinking no, because not all doors and airlocks would be completely tied to the main computer and that is how the pilot interacts with the ship.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#103 - 2012-06-16 20:41:16 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?


I would think, yes.... Contrary to at least one poster here, and I mean this with utmost respect, I'd think the capsuleer has access to every system and full control over them.

What leads me to believe this is simple ... We have the self-destruct button. If we have the unchecked ability to destoy the whole ship, we must have the ability to vent the ship as well.

When the POD abandons the ship, what does the ship do? It is "dead in the water". But, not just that, it is also open to boarding by any other capsuleer with the skill to pilot it.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#104 - 2012-06-17 18:12:50 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?


I'd think so. What is the most efficient way to put out a large fire on a spaceship? By venting the atmosphere. Normally you would seal the bulkheads in the immediate area that needs to be extinguished, but what is to stop an egger from keeping all doors open and venting all compartments? I'd like to think our control on shipsystems is hardcoded and -wired, thus extremely hard to disrupt by an outside force - but I suppose not entirely impossible.
Nikotium
Minmatar Star Scrapers
#105 - 2012-06-20 11:48:26 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?


I'd think so. What is the most efficient way to put out a large fire on a spaceship? By venting the atmosphere. Normally you would seal the bulkheads in the immediate area that needs to be extinguished, but what is to stop an egger from keeping all doors open and venting all compartments? I'd like to think our control on shipsystems is hardcoded and -wired, thus extremely hard to disrupt by an outside force - but I suppose not entirely impossible.



well, i have been shot up so badly that my ship was on fire. But, i did not see any way of putting the fire out, except for hull repair. i'm going to repeat myself: imagine what you want, not what everybody else wants you to imagine. All i have seen so far is theories and suggestions really.

Fan fiction is fan fiction. write what you want. i'll read it and enjoy it for what it is. from some of the few things i have read, it is really well written and, i use this word loosely, immersive. which is apparently not a word according to the red line bellow it...

i'll probably write a short story on my character, based on my own imagination that is.



"Ya'll need to cool yo jets! Aint no need fer all that hate."

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#106 - 2012-06-20 12:57:08 UTC
Nikotium wrote:
imagine what you want, not what everybody else wants you to imagine. All i have seen so far is theories and suggestions really.


Well maybe I want to imagine how things would happen "realistically".
Twisted Xistance
Red Command
#107 - 2012-06-26 02:16:27 UTC
When I think of my capsuleer I imagine it like in the imperiator titan pilots in warhammer epic, he is the ship, his consciousness is transfered into the very metal of the ships its self. I think the crew of the ship is as insignificant to my capsuleer as your individual cells are to you (we need every cell in our body but spend very little time thinking about them).
Twisted Xistance
Red Command
#108 - 2012-06-26 02:19:08 UTC
In fact imagine an agent mission, teh capsuleers account of that incident could be written up in a few lines or maybe at most a page, though how many full books of lore could you get out of the accounts of each mortal destroyed in that one mission.
Twisted Xistance
Red Command
#109 - 2012-06-26 02:24:40 UTC
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.




how long would 1m3 of food feed a person for and how much would it cost us for it in isk

To us a million isk is nothing though to a mortal it would be more isk than they could ever of dreamed of. I've not yet read any of the books (waiting eagerly for one to come in the post) though I speculate the costs involved in perspective to what a capsuleer actually makes from a single trit trade would be insignificant in comparison
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#110 - 2012-06-26 11:29:02 UTC
Twisted Xistance wrote:
To us a million isk is nothing though to a mortal it would be more isk than they could ever of dreamed of. I've not yet read any of the books (waiting eagerly for one to come in the post) though I speculate the costs involved in perspective to what a capsuleer actually makes from a single trit trade would be insignificant in comparison


And, herein lies one of the problems writers of EVE Fan fiction face.

Capsuleers are hard to write because in the face of adversity, they can buy a planet and have exotic dancers feed them for the rest of their days.

It's kinda hard for anyone to relate to someone who access to that level of living, and to be sympathetic towards them.

Would you be prepared to sit down in a bar and listen to the whimsical mumerings of a millionaire in real life? Especially if they began to complain and moan about how bad their life is...you might even take a few moments to reach for the nearest door...and slam their face into it.

No different than 'interview with a vampire', where the lead (Pitt) is whining throughout the entire film and the audience is just thinking 'man, if I was that unhappy, I'd just wait for the sun to come up'.

AK

This space for rent.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#111 - 2012-06-28 10:44:58 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:


And, herein lies one of the problems writers of EVE Fan fiction face.

Capsuleers are hard to write because in the face of adversity, they can buy a planet and have exotic dancers feed them for the rest of their days.

It's kinda hard for anyone to relate to someone who access to that level of living, and to be sympathetic towards them.

Would you be prepared to sit down in a bar and listen to the whimsical mumerings of a millionaire in real life? Especially if they began to complain and moan about how bad their life is...you might even take a few moments to reach for the nearest door...and slam their face into it.

No different than 'interview with a vampire', where the lead (Pitt) is whining throughout the entire film and the audience is just thinking 'man, if I was that unhappy, I'd just wait for the sun to come up'.

AK


This is a great comment. However, I would lean more towards writing about a non sympathetic character. Yes, capsuleers can buy planets. Yes, they are "immortal". Yes, they are out of touch with with the lives of the little people. This I believe will appeal to a reader, to read about someone they have to work at making a connection to.

Capsuleers would likely not sit down in a bar with anyone but, other capsuleers or perhaps the most trusted (senior) members of their crew.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#112 - 2012-06-28 12:55:02 UTC
well there is more than one reason for that, going into a bar like any old dive they could get killed. I bet the highest end station bars have extremely fancy and high tech weapons scanners at the doors. Go into any old dive and never know what might happen. I am sure the lower levels of many stations is comparable to Detroit for safety. I doubt any pod pilot wants to survive losing their battleship in a hail of torpedoes only to get it in the back with the eve equal to a Darrainger over a matter of 1isk.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#113 - 2012-06-28 17:01:05 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Capsuleers would likely not sit down in a bar with anyone but, other capsuleers or perhaps the most trusted (senior) members of their crew.


Hmm.

You're hinting at sociological-macro/micro-cosmological perceptions there.

Contextually to a story, one must be in a position where this is defined clearly.

My personal take on RL is less on being part of a larger group which defines the whole, than a smaller sub-set which is connected but different - but would agree my atomic structure is much the same as everyone else.

My perception on objects in RL is more to do with the spatial positioning of objects and my actual distance in relation to it., than the minutiae of the object itself.

eg; I am fully aware that in a certain part of the universe there is a shop where I used to work in my teens, and that if I were to stand in a certain position and crank my head in a certain way, I would see my signature written with a lead pencil and a date and time stamp next to it.

Every-time I return to that shop, I can still see it - but no matter how far away I travel from that point, it will still be there. Even if I went to the moon, or another solar system, or galaxy, or parallel dimension, that writing will still be there when I return - as will everything else in between those two points on the journey.

The shortest distance between two points, is the distance between a capsuleer and their clone.© AlleyKat

AK

This space for rent.

Eddie Monaghan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-06-28 21:08:14 UTC
I don't consider being in a capsule. Sure, this is what Eve lore and stories state, but to be honest, the concept is foreign to my mindset. I'm used to working as part of a team, spending time in the military. It takes a crew to run a ship nowadays, so it would go to follow that we'd have the same in the future, even with tech advances such as we have on Eve.

I don't write eve fiction, because my thoughts would not follow the concept of Capsuleers being "Demi-Gods". I don't fall into the line of thought of that sort. I look at it more as, in Eve, we've achieved the technology that allows us to be immortal, but it makes me no less important than any other human. I imagine myself giving my crew members their orders and such. Obviously this is a game, so I don't feel any sense of loss with them. I don't feel a sense of loss in losing a ship either, it's just pixels on a screen.

- Lo they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla. Where the brave may live forever.

Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#115 - 2012-06-30 20:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jax Bederen
Bluddwolf wrote:
I want to thank everyone so far for your responses. As an aspiring writer, I'm trying to get a real feel for the psychology of capsuleers, particularly their coping methods for dealing with immortality, death of non capsuleers and being in the almost continuous state of war and conflict.





I'm not sure you are that immortal, a clone is a copy, but it is not you. When it wakes, it may have the same patterns but they are self contained, the original consciousness dies if you are podded as it is contained inside that body, hence it is not you waking up. The only way to insure your own consciousness to truly survive intact is to have a direct transfer old body to new body, much like in the old man's war books.
Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#116 - 2012-07-01 01:41:27 UTC
The problem I have always had with this line of reasoning is that your essence is the pattern.. Whether an exact copy or not, it is an individual set of parameters that complete a whole personality. It is "your" personality. Whether imprinted upon a machine, a clone, or some other memetic storage medium, without degredation it is you..

There is no substantive difference, the experience, which is all we really are, remains the same.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#117 - 2012-07-01 02:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jax Bederen
Roga Dracor wrote:
The problem I have always had with this line of reasoning is that your essence is the pattern.. Whether an exact copy or not, it is an individual set of parameters that complete a whole personality. It is "your" personality. Whether imprinted upon a machine, a clone, or some other memetic storage medium, without degredation it is you..

There is no substantive difference, the experience, which is all we really are, remains the same.


Experience is the same, but for another person. It's not like you open your eyes and are in he's body, he is in he's own body, your synapses stopped firing and there was no connection between the two of you. Say you were killed 2 feet from your clone, the "you" would be dead, he would be alive. Even if both of you stood talking with each other it would be 2 separate beings with their own consciousness. Sure you left something behind with all your memories, but you would still be dead, you did not transfer there.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#118 - 2012-07-01 11:12:23 UTC
The concept of personality transfer when going from one self to a clone is not dealt with in EVE fiction / lore. That is a whole other issue with a whole set of new questions and problems.

Interestingly enough, or perhaps ironically, I just finished watching Battlestar Galactica (all 5 seasons) and Caprica. Both deal with the transfer of memories from one Cylon to a copy. In BSG copies can have their own "personalites" and their own experiences because the exist at the same time. There are multiple copies at one time. In Caprica, Zoe Graystone (The first Cylon w/ AI and Personality) recognizes that there is a differenece between the original human person and the copied Virtual World Zoe. Interesting and somewhat confusing.

In EVE, we only occupy one sefl at a time. I think it is safe to assume that when we transfer from one clone to another, all of our essense is transferred (memories, experineces, personality, etc.).

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#119 - 2012-07-01 15:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
In the case of clones active concurrently, they are not the same, even those standing two feet apart have subtle differences of experience in time and space, so subtle differences in experience of input.. They are effectively "different" creations, and these differences cascade as the seperations in time and space increase.

These differences can influence psychological perceptions and moral ambiguities, thus creating seperate and distinct personas. Such is not the case with clones in Eve. I would argue they are still "me". Gonna try a story 'bout it soon..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#120 - 2012-07-01 23:31:42 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
The only way to insure your own consciousness to truly survive intact is to have a direct transfer old body to new body, much like in the old man's war books.
Bluddwolf wrote:
The concept of personality transfer when going from one self to a clone is not dealt with in EVE fiction / lore.
Read the description for this skill:

Infomorph Psychology
Infomorph Psychology Psychological training that strengthens the pilot's mental tenacity. The reality of having one's consciousness detached from one's physical form, scattered across the galaxy and then placed in a vat-grown clone can be very unsettling to the untrained mind.


And the following piece from this article:
Quote:
The transneural burning scanner utilizes a combination of magnetic resonance imaging and emission tomography to quickly acquire a detailed scan of the brain down to the quantum level. In order to have a complete and accurate map of the brain and retain the all memories and personality, the scan must record the position of every atom.
There is more if you look around a bit.