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Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

First post First post
Author
Roga Dracor
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2012-05-11 02:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
AlleyKat wrote:

Entertainment.

And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system.

There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain.

The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars".

So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here.

AK


That has always been a favorite aspect of Eve to me.. The "honorable mention" that Eve pays to the sci fi greats such as BladeRunner, Dune, Hitchhiker's Guide, Foundation and Empire, etc., etc., et al..

Entertainment can be a different beast for different tastes and mindsets. Eve caters to MANY, and has always been thought of as an intellectual game in the gaming community.. Some just say it's boring..Roll

CCP offered a chance to help them sort it out and make it so.Blink

To make it more logical withhin and withstanding the game mechanics, and so we offer plausibility..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-05-11 07:32:07 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:

Entertainment.

And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system.

There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain.

The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars".

So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here.

AK

Now, if the A'J project still was running, I would write an article about how those monoliths (there are many of them) are celestial waypoint markers used by the Talocans millenia ago.

Sadly, no more A'J project.Straight

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#63 - 2012-05-11 17:55:42 UTC
All I know is that I frequently have to transport special edition boxed holoreel shipments and that my agent frequently warns me that my crew can't open any of them. As such I make sure my ships are wired with a full entertainment array for their breaks so as not to be tempted.

...I have to do the same thing when I transport a load of Quafe.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#64 - 2012-05-15 18:23:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Renier Gaden
AlleyKat wrote:
Nah, the Lore uses the terms 'build' and 'construct'; not 'transport' and yes, they were built and were needed, which is why the sistas of EVE have got the original gate with "EVE" written on it.

It isn't a riddle; there is nothing enigmatic about it at all - take a step back and look at the big picture:

Someone wrote the Lore to work with the design of the game, not to work with logical reasoning.

It is not logical. It doesn't make sense. It is not supposed to make sense. It is not supposed to be logical.

The original screenshots of this game had blue-tooth headsets as futuristic methods of communication. Go figure, and please stop attempting to defend something so utterly flawed and accept it for what it is:

Entertainment.

And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system.

There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain.

The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars".

So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here.

AK


I hope you are not labouring under the erroneous assumption that real life history is logical and makes sense.

What happened to the Viking colonies in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia? Where they not self sufficient enough to survive?

The Chinese once had a large fleet of sailing ships that sailed as far as Madagascar. But when Europeans first reached China, China no longer had large sailing ships. Why would one of the world’s great naval powers give up it’s navy?

The EVE lore makes as much sense as much of our own history does.
Thomas Gump
Syrup Fury Fiends
#65 - 2012-05-16 07:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Gump
A few people have said this already, but I thought I'd raise my hand in agreement (I'm new here, hello).

The bit of fiction I'm working on at the moment is based around a planet going Minmatarian who was coerced into becoming a partner in a corporation (and therefore a capsuleer) by an enterprising and seemingly friendly Caldarian. Over decades his role in a flourishing corporation becomes more and more mundane. He spends many months at a time in a stationary ship mining ice and worrying about not being adequate enough to satisfy the needs of his corporation while simultaneously becoming hollow inside and not caring much for his own life.

... He talks to his crew. He interacts with them. He has a close relationship with them. They worry about his health.

My writing background comes from writing stage scripts with two or three characters in an intimate setting. I gave this up a long long time ago, but I'm still not ready to depart from a story being based around rock solid characters and basic human interactions.

I'm sure there are lots of places that the whole pod pilot thing could take a character, and I've explored that a little bit, but I don't want my main character to be restricted to a capsule during what are surely the most interesting parts of the story.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#66 - 2012-05-16 11:00:23 UTC
Renier Gaden wrote:
I hope you are not labouring under the erroneous assumption that real life history is logical and makes sense


No.

This space for rent.

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#67 - 2012-05-16 11:10:47 UTC
Thomas Gump wrote:
I'm sure there are lots of places that the whole pod pilot thing could take a character, and I've explored that a little bit, but I don't want my main character to be restricted to a capsule during what are surely the most interesting parts of the story.


Confused.

Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?

Or, did I read that incorrectly?

Expand.

This space for rent.

Thomas Gump
Syrup Fury Fiends
#68 - 2012-05-16 12:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Gump
AlleyKat wrote:

Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?


I was suggesting that being in a space ship in space could be the most interesting part of the story. And during that interesting part of the story I don't want to confine my lead character to a pod.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#69 - 2012-05-16 21:20:35 UTC
Thomas Gump wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?


I was suggesting that being in a space ship in space could be the most interesting part of the story. And during that interesting part of the story I don't want to confine my lead character to a pod.


Got it. Thanks, I did read that incorrectly.

So, make the lead not a capsuleer, just a regular pilot - they do exist, apparently.

Or

Make them a reluctant capsuleer, who, for whatever sensible reason, is adverse to piloting/commanding a ship via neural interface. It would make sense, given their 'hands-on' approach to relationships ie; they prefer human contact to being in a capsule because doing that distances them from human contact.

Their arc could be (simplifying here) overcoming the thing that made them adverse to piloting by pod, whilst maintaining a centered personality that is now able to balance piloting by pod, and have interactions with the crew unaffected.

Like I say, this is simplification, but it would be interesting to have a character who is able to satisfy both of their needs (psychological and physical) by balancing pod piloting and interaction with the crew. Coupled to a strong story, this would be an interesting and satisfying conclusion to the story, no matter what it is about, as the reader would be able to identify with the main character because they are the root of the story.

Never need a complex story, just complex characters who make sense.

AK

This space for rent.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#70 - 2012-05-17 14:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
AlleyKat wrote:


Not all capsuleers have a blood-lust for violence ....

... I guess I refuse to believe the future of the human race will only have capsuleers who want to destroy stuff, when the majority of pilots run missions ...




While your entire post was great, this part stuck out (yes, I am taking your statements out of context, but this is what stuck with me). Mostly because, I don't follow how you can say that not all capsuleers have a blood-lust, then go on to talk about the missioners.

While it's not really used in game, this page has some rough guidelines on crew sizes for the ships...

so, using that table, and an "average" L4 mission (chosen at random from eve-survival) -- Intercept the Saboteurs.

(gate)
2x Destroyers @ 10-30 crew
3x Frigates @ 2-10 crew

total: 26 - 90 dead

(deadspace pocket)
6x Frigates @ 2-10 crew
5x Destroyers @ 10-30 crew
3x Heavy Assault Cruisers (Corpum Arch Priest/Sage) @ 20-75 crew
6x Cruisers @ 20-75 crew
8x Battlecruisers @ 40-170 crew
3x Battleships @ 200-550 crew
3x Interceptors (Elder Corpii Upholders) (Web/Scramble) @ 2-10 crew
3x Blood Raider Transports @ unknown crew

total: 1168 - 3925 dead


overall total for one mission then is 1194 - 4015 NPC crew members killed, assuming 100% death rates. Obviously the numbers can be skewed a fair bit by the survival rates as noted in the table on the evelopedia site.

A mission-runner can finish what ... 5-10 such missions in an hour? (I don't know, I don't mission)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#71 - 2012-05-17 20:35:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
While your entire post was great, this part stuck out (yes, I am taking your statements out of context, but this is what stuck with me). Mostly because, I don't follow how you can say that not all capsuleers have a blood-lust, then go on to talk about the missioners.


Missioners respond to a call to action; pirates are the action.

AK

This space for rent.

Liang Huei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-06-03 02:38:36 UTC
I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale. Just can't really buy the fact that the Crew pods are too small for the overview if mine, which can't be way too bigger than theirs, isn't. Not only that, but i happen to believe that one, ten or one hundred escape pods may bail out unoticed, but not the thousands that bigger ships have.

Again on scale, i cannot see how a single pod like mine, when put side to side with, say, a cruiser, could correspond to, at least, one half of the number of passengers CCP tells that it can accomodate. Well, they could have explained the lack of pods in the overview with gameplay reasons, and not lore ones.

Thoughts on that?
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#73 - 2012-06-03 16:15:29 UTC
Liang Huei wrote:
I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale. Just can't really buy the fact that the Crew pods are too small for the overview if mine, which can't be way too bigger than theirs, isn't. Not only that, but i happen to believe that one, ten or one hundred escape pods may bail out unoticed, but not the thousands that bigger ships have.

Again on scale, i cannot see how a single pod like mine, when put side to side with, say, a cruiser, could correspond to, at least, one half of the number of passengers CCP tells that it can accomodate. Well, they could have explained the lack of pods in the overview with gameplay reasons, and not lore ones.

Thoughts on that?



I agree that there is likely more escape pods than we see. Your post brings up another interestign question. How many crew members are on the pod that we do see?

Is the "pod" reserved for just the captain?

Is the captain the only officer that is a capsuleer (clone)?

My thought it that the ships we fly are vastly more automated then some of us might think. I also believe that it is possible that the entire officer staff of a Cruiser + sized ship, spend the entire journey inside of their pods. This I believe is almost ceratin for the captain and I'll explain why in a moment. So in theory, actually physical contact or proximity is not necessary for officers to issue out orders and for those orders to be follwed.

Now for the Captain. He or she is definately sealed up in his / her pod. There are enough examples of Dev written chronicles and novels to support this. Also, the mechanics of the techonoly in New Eden require it as well. For example: How is that implant that is granting you +3% Rate of Fire interacting with the ship, if you are not linked to the ship physically?

The capsuleer is decribed as being inside the pod. Encased in goo, and plugged into his/her ship. The ship's functions becomes an extension of the capsuleer's mind. This does not mean that the Capsuleer can not communicate with the crew. he has to be able to. It doesn't mean he / she can't have a personal relationship with the crew, just not a physical one during space travel.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Liang Huei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-06-03 20:44:08 UTC
I'd like to clarify my last paragraph: what i was trying to say is that i don't see an in-game cruiser model, for example, having enough size to make for 15 or so pods that should happen to have a size like mine. Not to mention the space that would have to be reserved for all the ships systems, living quarters and, well, everything else.



I'm actually trying to say that i believe that pods, in this game, are oversized, or maybe ship models are maybe not big
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#75 - 2012-06-03 21:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
I don't see the purpose of having more than one capsuleer on a ship. The idea of the capsuleer is that he, the captain, replaces the officers on the bridge, among other things.

As for pod size, I recall that the capsule is around 4m officially, but I've heard more often that the scale of certain things is mismatched when you put them side by side in the game.
Anyway, an escape pod can be a lot smaller than a capsule for an egger. It could be coffin-sized, and possibly "inflatable" or something like that.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#76 - 2012-06-03 22:28:29 UTC
Liang Huei wrote:
I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale.
.........
Thoughts on that?


Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale
You might also want to check out the entry on Bellisario's Maxim.


As for the opening post of the thread - I don't like to look at things that black and white, and if there's anything I've noticed from official chronicles, there are more shades of grey in EVEverse than on this forum layout. Becoming a capsuleer doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your humanity. Sure, Prime Fiction generally paints us nothing but near-godlike mercenaries loyal only to their next paycheck, but why limit yourself to such a narrow pigeonholing?

Firstly, there's more career options available than just destroying pirate hives / enemy strongholds for the highest bidder - and infact this is one part of EVE I just prefer to ignore most of the time, character storyline wise at least. When you think about it too hard... Well It's just best not to. Right, career options.. Well, you can become an industrialist , an industrial pilot, a market player, a miner, heck, storyline wise a capsuleer could become little more than a glorified tourist shuttle pilot, a slave trader - imagination is the limit as in any other fiction, really.
While it makes sense that many capsuleers are combat pilots and therefore prefer to be detached from crews, this doesn't quite hold true for say, a Freighter pilot. Freighters are notoriously slow, and you'll find playing space-farmville on GalNet interesting only for so long. To me it would only make sense that you'll socialize with the crew during long jumps, or at least be more "hands on" with everything. This, of course, doesn't mean you'll start walking around your ship (is it even possible to leave the pod while in control of a ship?), but holoprojecting your avatar around a ship. If you think that's unpractical, well, not necessarily. The shipboard AI can handle the most mundane functions and alert you should there be something requiring your immediate attention, like a warp tunnel breach.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#77 - 2012-06-05 11:06:42 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
...you might also want to check out the entry on Bellisario's Maxim...


<3

This space for rent.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-06-05 19:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Roga Dracor wrote:
"The Wetgrave" would seem to imply that it is "possible" to leave the pod in space. Though the ship would need the redundant control systems to allow ships to operate without a capsuleer. Whether these systems are present in Capsuleer production ships isn't clarified, that I know of..
.


Yes it is. It's said in the books that there are some ships with internal pod gantry here and there, not only the Significance.
For instance, the MLS Morse is a Drake... Piloted by a non-capsuleer.

About the pod size topic: Remember that our pods carry armor and equipement needed to withstand punishment enough miliseconds to transfer the neural snapshot to the next clone. Crew escape pods are likely "coffin-sized" like has been said, and there aren't enough for everybody in the crew.
About why don't the crew escape pods appear on the overview, it's easy: a CONCORD did it. Hard restrictions on your targeting systems to avoid unnecesary deaths.

About more than one capsuleer per ship, definitively no.
Roga Dracor
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#79 - 2012-06-05 19:28:36 UTC
Never read any of the books.. Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-06-06 16:43:38 UTC
You should, they have so much shocking info!