These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Maul555
Xen Investments
#761 - 2012-06-14 11:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
And for everyone else. It appears to be way past time to prod our Alliance and Corp mates into breaking their silence. I, like many of you, have heard complaints from people all over new eden, who never visit the forums. In CCP's mind, silence is approval.

Quote:
EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: CCP thinks you like the new UI because of your silence. Tell them" by Maul555.


I strongly urge everyone else to do the same
Diamonica Norya
Pro Synergy
#762 - 2012-06-14 12:20:20 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
It appears there are some weird shenanigans going on..

first i posted a poll:
http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

i'm looking at it right now. There's 63/8/2/22 vote coming from the UK which works out to 66% fantastic :)
This is the link CCP Goliath replied to. I suspect it was distributed to CCP UK office.

Now if you look at this poll which i modified and it was distributed at 5 major trade hubs:
http://gopollgo.com/is-unified-inventory-in-eve-inferno-expansion-better-than-the-old-inventory

The numbers are completely different
37/55/52/80 for the UK, making it 17/25/23/36% for fantastic/better/worse/terrible

The only plausible conclusion seems to be that CCP actually bothered to doctor the first poll that I posted. I'm not sure why they would bother to do that but I can't think of any other explanation..


While your theory amuses me, I would just like to note that not only did I not tell anyone about this poll, for the reasons that I told you above, but the fact that you cannot accept that anyone at all would vote for one of the good options proves why you should not be running this poll in the first place. Our Newcastle office have better things to do with their time than "doctoring your poll". Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.


You know what? You're both making too much assumptions, for the sake of arguments, why don't you run an official poll with good transparency and properly monitored by some independent 3rd party? Would that then not be better than our current pity sample of 300 out of 300k?

Oh I forgot, it's too impractical and pointless, there's nothing wrong with the UI from CCP's perspective, and your doing a great job convincing everybody about it rather than facing the truth?

I mean really, what's the point right now debating who is happy and who ain't happy and their exact proportions, fabricated or not. You yourself is making unconstructive comments and statements and you're not doing any good to change or cover the facts.

Fact is that you already know there are many things that needed to be ironed out and this and every other SINGLE threads you keep jumping and updating in between is in YOUR OWN WORDS to gather valuable feedbacks.

However, why the hell are the development team not actively participating but rather we have a QA director spending his last 10 or 20 posts in this whole thread arguing something irrelevant to the improvement of this wretched UI that was delivered to the entire Eve Universe 4 weeks ago and instead quarreling like little boys and girls.

I'd much prefer the development team to come here and admit something is wrong, and provide us the unhappy vocal minorities with some very simple schedule (no matter how slow it's going to take) on the plans to iron out the bugs than just watch you and some ppl keep arguing about something you should discuss elsewhere...(like when your blog about your development process is finally published, everyone can go argue there).

I'd just want to say one last thing, it's very annoying that for 3 consecutive patches that released all talked about fixing the same bug (something like "fixed an issue where blah blah blah") in the patch notes, and yet the problem persists. While we still happily filing in bug reports and received countless standard "we are aware of the issue" reply, it just got ppl thinking that:

Are you sure you are aware of the bug and its effects to the full extent?
Are you sure that you found the root cause of the problem?
Are you sure that when you said you fixed it, it is really fixed?

Because it currently seems like we're observing some kind of -not so brilliant variation of- kitchen chemistry problem solving methods in the works.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#763 - 2012-06-14 12:24:33 UTC
Maul555 wrote:
And for everyone else. It appears to be way past time to prod our Alliance and Corp mates into breaking their silence. I, like many of you, have heard complaints from people all over new eden, who never visit the forums. In CCP's mind, silence is approval.

Quote:
EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: CCP thinks you like the new UI because of your silence. Tell them" by Maul555.


I strongly urge everyone else to do the same


I'd like to clarify at this point that while I used the term "vocal minority" to describe those extremely opposed to the Unified Inventory, I did not infer that everyone who wasn't posting was in favour of it nor did I claim at any point that silence is approval. I was trying to make the point that the many repeat posters were using the term "everyone" or "almost all" to describe those against the change were using those terms erroneously.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#764 - 2012-06-14 12:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: vasuul
so in short all these back and forth's come to this
CCP : does not want to know what we think about their UI they want us to as players ADAPT or DIE
they will not roll it back

No amount of poll or data collection will change their mind because we are the vocal minority
they don't feel any survey is necessary because it still will not change their mind

now we are stuck with this and CCP hopes we will come to terms with it
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#765 - 2012-06-14 12:30:04 UTC
I found a new (to me) quirk in the unified inventory while doing a radar site the other day.

If you try to open a container that is not already codebreakerized, you used to just get a message on screen telling you it isn't unlocked yet.

With the new system, it gives you the message, but it also opens your ship cargo hold instead of the container. Why would I want my cargo hold open when I tried to open an inaccessible can?

I didn't ask for a non-specific inventory window to open, I asked for a very specific one. If that one is not available, don't open anything. That behavior seems pretty obvious.

P.S. I would vote in that poll, but it doesn't have a very good set of choices. Put me down for "I like the new tree system, but I hate the removal of all the buttons and context menus that made inventory easily manageable." - or - "Great idea, bad implementation."

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#766 - 2012-06-14 12:54:37 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
And for everyone else. It appears to be way past time to prod our Alliance and Corp mates into breaking their silence. I, like many of you, have heard complaints from people all over new eden, who never visit the forums. In CCP's mind, silence is approval.

Quote:
EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: CCP thinks you like the new UI because of your silence. Tell them" by Maul555.


I strongly urge everyone else to do the same


I'd like to clarify at this point that while I used the term "vocal minority" to describe those extremely opposed to the Unified Inventory, I did not infer that everyone who wasn't posting was in favour of it nor did I claim at any point that silence is approval. I was trying to make the point that the many repeat posters were using the term "everyone" or "almost all" to describe those against the change were using those terms erroneously.



Fair enough... Do you think it would be possible to get a list of coming fixes? So that way we could stop complaining about things that are in the works... Roll
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#767 - 2012-06-14 13:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: vasuul
sorry but it comes off to me like this

Player : Everyone i talk to hates the new UI

CCP : you are exaggerating your position not everyone disagrees with this , It would be impossible to say everyone
after and 9 out of 10 dentists prefer trident sugarless even they couldn't get a consensus of everyone
No one has ever carried a 100 % of a vote before there is always differing opinions you WILL adapt give it time

player: fine i can't speak for everyone but the people i talk to don't like it

CCP: exactly you can't speak for everyone, in fact we consider you the vocal minority ,i hope you can come to terms with that
you WILL adapt give it time

Player : this UI is missing a lot of the function of the old one it is clunky and cumbersome and takes three times longer to use

CCP That's because this is the new and improved UI its not supposed to function like the old ,if it did it wouldn't be NEW would it ?? you WILL adapt give it time

Player : what was wrong with the old UI ?

CCP : i already answered that, and you WILL adapt give it time

Player : when ?

CCP : Earlier

Player : why cant we have the old one back ?

CCP : because this is the new and improved UI look it even has a TREE you will ADAPT

Player : I know , but i don't care for the tree Trees belong in forests not in a game

CCP : ah but you are the vocal minority you will Adapt

Player : one of the things the tutorial drilled in was when in doubt RIGHT CLICK now when i try that it does not function the same

CCP: that's because it is the NEW and improved inventory it is not supposed to function the same or it would not be new and improved

Player : NO this is not an improvement this is a mess , the window wont stay in place ,the cans in the corp hanger wont open
unless i use the tree
i cant get into the cargo one one ship with out it kicking me back to the other one now i have to shift click VS. just use the mouse every time i open a can in a mission it opens the UI and takes up half the screen , used to the corp hangar had tabs that were easy to see and there was a separate window by default that now i don't get even though i liked it ,the first time you open your corp hangar in station on the tree it lags to beat hell i practically need a magnifying glass to see the tree not that i want it anyway


CCP : that's because this is the NEW and IMPROVED UI we are sorry you don't like it as we said before you are the vocal minority and we don't need a survey to tell us that , you must adapt , I hope you can come to TERMS with that
Captain' Jack Sparrow
#768 - 2012-06-14 13:27:06 UTC
*snipped*
CCP Goliath wrote:
Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.


How can you say unlikely? *I* voted in the first one AND the second one.

Joey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#769 - 2012-06-14 13:37:28 UTC
The new UI sucks, y change an inventory that has clearly worked perfectly well for so many years ?

Typical CCP trying to fix something that isnt actually broken.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#770 - 2012-06-14 13:57:40 UTC
Captain' Jack Sparrow wrote:
*snipped*
CCP Goliath wrote:
Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.


How can you say unlikely? *I* voted in the first one AND the second one.



You're a double-voting minority :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Captain' Jack Sparrow
#771 - 2012-06-14 14:04:45 UTC
I just took a trip from Dodixie to Jita, leaving this non-biased broadcast in every system along the way:

Quote:
Please voice your opinion about the new Unified Inventory in the official thread here --->>> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117617&p=1

CCP needs your feedback!


Hopefully we get some fresh opinions from new posters. Unfortunately, I believe the "non-vocal majority" will probably prefer to remain non-vocal.

Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#772 - 2012-06-14 14:07:22 UTC
vasuul wrote:
sorry but it comes off to me like this

Player : Everyone i talk to hates the new UI

CCP : you are exaggerating your position not everyone disagrees with this , It would be impossible to say everyone
after and 9 out of 10 dentists prefer trident sugarless even they couldn't get a consensus of everyone
No one has ever carried a 100 % of a vote before there is always differing opinions you WILL adapt give it time

player: fine i can't speak for everyone but the people i talk to don't like it

CCP: exactly you can't speak for everyone, in fact we consider you the vocal minority ,i hope you can come to terms with that
you WILL adapt give it time

Player : this UI is missing a lot of the function of the old one it is clunky and cumbersome and takes three times longer to use

CCP That's because this is the new and improved UI its not supposed to function like the old ,if it did it wouldn't be NEW would it ?? you WILL adapt give it time

Player : what was wrong with the old UI ?

CCP : i already answered that, and you WILL adapt give it time

Player : when ?

CCP : Earlier

Player : why cant we have the old one back ?

CCP : because this is the new and improved UI look it even has a TREE you will ADAPT

Player : I know , but i don't care for the tree Trees belong in forests not in a game

CCP : ah but you are the vocal minority you will Adapt

Player : one of the things the tutorial drilled in was when in doubt RIGHT CLICK now when i try that it does not function the same

CCP: that's because it is the NEW and improved inventory it is not supposed to function the same or it would not be new and improved

Player : NO this is not an improvement this is a mess , the window wont stay in place ,the cans in the corp hanger wont open
unless i use the tree
i cant get into the cargo one one ship with out it kicking me back to the other one now i have to shift click VS. just use the mouse every time i open a can in a mission it opens the UI and takes up half the screen , used to the corp hangar had tabs that were easy to see and there was a separate window by default that now i don't get even though i liked it ,the first time you open your corp hangar in station on the tree it lags to beat hell i practically need a magnifying glass to see the tree not that i want it anyway


CCP : that's because this is the NEW and IMPROVED UI we are sorry you don't like it as we said before you are the vocal minority and we don't need a survey to tell us that , you must adapt , I hope you can come to TERMS with that


Looooooool. You are so much right pal. Lol
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#773 - 2012-06-14 14:52:53 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Captain' Jack Sparrow wrote:
*snipped*
CCP Goliath wrote:
Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.


How can you say unlikely? *I* voted in the first one AND the second one.



You're a double-voting minority :)


Arguing with a logic defying brick wall is pointless.
Rock Kicker
Full Bore Inc
#774 - 2012-06-14 15:30:25 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
It appears there are some weird shenanigans going on..

first i posted a poll:
http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

i'm looking at it right now. There's 63/8/2/22 vote coming from the UK which works out to 66% fantastic :)
This is the link CCP Goliath replied to. I suspect it was distributed to CCP UK office.

Now if you look at this poll which i modified and it was distributed at 5 major trade hubs:
http://gopollgo.com/is-unified-inventory-in-eve-inferno-expansion-better-than-the-old-inventory

The numbers are completely different
37/55/52/80 for the UK, making it 17/25/23/36% for fantastic/better/worse/terrible

The only plausible conclusion seems to be that CCP actually bothered to doctor the first poll that I posted. I'm not sure why they would bother to do that but I can't think of any other explanation..


Small sidenote for you on this. I just voted 5 separate times on your 2nd poll. I simply closed my browser after voting (which clears all caches), opened it back up, rinse and repeat. So anyone could skew the poll in a matter of minutes...

FYI - I voted 5 times for 'Terrible'. Still have yet to understand why taking 2-3 times longer to do the same tasks is considered 'new and improved'...

The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#775 - 2012-06-14 15:41:42 UTC
Who the hell even claimed the New UI was IMPROVED? I haven't even seen the devs actually try to shovel THAT load of **** on us.
Gainard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#776 - 2012-06-14 16:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gainard
vasuul wrote:
sorry but it comes off to me like this

Player : Everyone i talk to hates the new UI

CCP : you are exaggerating your position not everyone disagrees with this , It would be impossible to say everyone
after and 9 out of 10 dentists prefer trident sugarless even they couldn't get a consensus of everyone
No one has ever carried a 100 % of a vote before there is always differing opinions you WILL adapt give it time

player: fine i can't speak for everyone but the people i talk to don't like it

CCP: exactly you can't speak for everyone, in fact we consider you the vocal minority ,i hope you can come to terms with that
you WILL adapt give it time

Player : this UI is missing a lot of the function of the old one it is clunky and cumbersome and takes three times longer to use

CCP That's because this is the new and improved UI its not supposed to function like the old ,if it did it wouldn't be NEW would it ?? you WILL adapt give it time

Player : what was wrong with the old UI ?

CCP : i already answered that, and you WILL adapt give it time

Player : when ?

CCP : Earlier

Player : why cant we have the old one back ?

CCP : because this is the new and improved UI look it even has a TREE you will ADAPT

Player : I know , but i don't care for the tree Trees belong in forests not in a game

CCP : ah but you are the vocal minority you will Adapt

Player : one of the things the tutorial drilled in was when in doubt RIGHT CLICK now when i try that it does not function the same

CCP: that's because it is the NEW and improved inventory it is not supposed to function the same or it would not be new and improved

Player : NO this is not an improvement this is a mess , the window wont stay in place ,the cans in the corp hanger wont open
unless i use the tree
i cant get into the cargo one one ship with out it kicking me back to the other one now i have to shift click VS. just use the mouse every time i open a can in a mission it opens the UI and takes up half the screen , used to the corp hangar had tabs that were easy to see and there was a separate window by default that now i don't get even though i liked it ,the first time you open your corp hangar in station on the tree it lags to beat hell i practically need a magnifying glass to see the tree not that i want it anyway


CCP : that's because this is the NEW and IMPROVED UI we are sorry you don't like it as we said before you are the vocal minority and we don't need a survey to tell us that , you must adapt , I hope you can come to TERMS with that


Nothing to add, +1

Man, I train for certain goals and then the related skills / modules / ships get nerfed. I hate to be addicted to EVE.
Gainard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#777 - 2012-06-14 16:21:18 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
First, I LIKE the new Unified Inventory. The issue is that the user friendliness is very low at the moment in terms of easy and consistent.

Second, there is a SERIOUSLY annoying defect with double clicking a container to access it. It opens your Ships Cargo instead of the container in a new window. Has this been acknowledged yet?

You need to be focusing on reducing the number of clicks it takes to get to somewhere. Looking at your setup, it might seem it's less clicks, but it's not.

In the right click contextual menu an "Open Cargohold in New Window" option next to "Open Cargohold" would go a LONG way for some people



THREE SIMPLE THINGS TO MAKE THE UNIFIED INVENTORY LESS OF A HASSLE :

ONE. Collapsed by Default

Please, all the hangars are always "uncollapsed" when you open the inventory or expand the side inventory. It is REALLY inconvenient to have to close all of the "Ship hangar", "Item Hangar", "POS Stuff", etc to get to where you want to go. Just let them always be collapsed, and I'll open the ones I want. Remembering the setting may seem "smart", but when I have to go to another part of my inventory, it sucks.

EXAMPLE : I have over 50 ships and I can't get to the item hangar containers easily because the ship hangar is on a level above that. So I MUST collapse the ship hangar to get to my item hangar. Stop that. You're not doing us a favor of saving us any clicking.


TWO. Double Clicked My Ship, ARGH!

Double Clicking on a Ship you're in the window does nothing. Let it open the cargo of the ship I'm in when I double click it. Also, let me SHIFT+Double Click on a ship I'M NOT IN to open carge and don't let me get into the ship. This way I can open ships from my ship hangar with just a double click + shift

EXAMPLE : I always try and open my ship hangar by double clicking on the Ship, or another ship. instead I get INTO the ship, which is really frustrating because now I have to find my other ship to get back into it.


THREE. Be Consistent

Double Clicking On One thing Opens a new window, double clicking on another opens it in the side menu, double clicking on a ship gets you into the ship, shift clicking this opens it with a side panel, double clicking that opens it without one. You've gotten so caught up between what the players "want" and your initial plan, that we're in the middle of stuff just acting weird still.

EXAMPLE : Double clicking a container in my Item Hangar opens it in a new window. I thought that's why we have the unified Inventory? SO I don't HAVE to open a new window. But now, shift double click doesn't just move into the container and opens a new window WITH a side panel. So, I'm just scratching my head because you've just confused the hell out of what and how I'm supposed to use this thing. Pick a plan and find ways around the design challenges without having 3 different functions for the same thing.


This will go a LONG WAY to a less hassling experience in the UI. There is a lot of other things to do, but these should be pretty easy to implement in the next iteration while you figure out some of the more in depth things to do.


Please explain what exactly you like - and why after that first sentence only complaints follow...

It might be important to notice that most people here complain about the lost features and not really about the new features - besides the bugs of course. Nobody will complain about beeing given a new car, unless of course it comes without a steering wheel, no seats and on top of that the breaks only work if you honk at the same time...

Man, I train for certain goals and then the related skills / modules / ships get nerfed. I hate to be addicted to EVE.
DazedOne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2012-06-14 16:24:51 UTC
Had a blast last night as I was moving massive amounts of inventory in order to move it elsewhere. I just loved the spinning circles as the game was processing the move from a hanger to a hauler. Took 10 times longer than it used to on the old UI. I have seriously given this a try and am currently on a plex (I bought this with in game currency) as I refuse to give CCP my personal money anymore until I see this game is fixed. However, with how combative Goliah is about this abomination and, how low key the Devs are being about getting this ship righted, I truly do not see this pile of trash fixed any time soon.

As of now I try to avoid anything that has to do with messing with inventory unless I absolutely have to. CCP, most of us are trying to avoid using this abomination. Has it occured to you guys that there is a reason for this? Anything that requires movement of large amounts of assets is like sitting there getting your teeth pulled.

I read the Dev blog on the ship updates, and to me it sounds like those guys actually listen to US THE PAYING CUSTOMER. Maybe you UI guys should take a page out of their operating manual and start listening to us also. The product will be better which means you make more money. I find it funny that some of your teams have it oh so right and other teams are just epicly fail!!!!!!!!!!
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#779 - 2012-06-14 16:34:00 UTC

anyone want to have a laugh at this sick joke of an inventory i invite to to see this the original post
it went on until after it went live on the test server

notice the change in comments before page 13 and after page 13


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104383&p=13

from page 13 on you will not see very many positive comments

I mean you must take into account that those after page 13 must be that vocal minority RIGHT Roll
Gainard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#780 - 2012-06-14 16:34:28 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
And for everyone else. It appears to be way past time to prod our Alliance and Corp mates into breaking their silence. I, like many of you, have heard complaints from people all over new eden, who never visit the forums. In CCP's mind, silence is approval.

Quote:
EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: CCP thinks you like the new UI because of your silence. Tell them" by Maul555.


I strongly urge everyone else to do the same


I'd like to clarify at this point that while I used the term "vocal minority" to describe those extremely opposed to the Unified Inventory, I did not infer that everyone who wasn't posting was in favour of it nor did I claim at any point that silence is approval. I was trying to make the point that the many repeat posters were using the term "everyone" or "almost all" to describe those against the change were using those terms erroneously.



Still we, the extremely opposed are there, and yes, we - though of course being not everyone - insist on our grievances being taken care of. There is yet to be proven that the UI is superior to the old system. Do that and I will post one last thing and then shut up: You win, I stupid.

However, I believe it would be a good idea for CCP to consider the extremely opposed not as an annoyance (I know you did not say that) but as a hint that there might be something wrong...

Man, I train for certain goals and then the related skills / modules / ships get nerfed. I hate to be addicted to EVE.