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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

First post First post
Author
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#801 - 2012-06-15 01:02:34 UTC
Why doesn't shift clicking on the inventory icon on the Neocom bring up a *new* inventory window?
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#802 - 2012-06-15 01:08:04 UTC
Just wanted to chime in and say that I disagree with this proposed voting idea. Clearly the feedback process could stand some improvement and player polls should be more accessible, but if any of you think that CCP is going to sacrifice its creative vision to a self-imposed democracy, you're out of your minds.

They've already told us what they're going to do. 1.1 on the 19th and the next iteration 14 days later. They've prioritized performance issues over logistics. A player with only spinning discs and no inventory system at all doesn't care much about right click functionality. They've also said they're discussing customizable shortcuts, dragging tree entries to the hangar and the neocom, and hopefully permanent shortcuts for the station/corp hangars.

I agree that regardless of the inent, the term "vocal minority" wasn't very complimentary. Even if it's accurate, it has a dismissive connotation and wasn't well-received here either. I'm still interested in this issue even though I've ceased writing about it. My gameplay is still lacking. I'm just writing on other topics because we have days until the next development here. There's already thousands of comments on the subject. But calling for heads to roll and being generally uncouth isn't going to make the wait any more bearable. We've got 5 days until the 19th and 19 more to 7/3rd. That's the timeline we're on.

At least give the devs a chance to iterate and see what happens before you start burning tires in the streets.

Yonis Kador
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#803 - 2012-06-15 01:18:30 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Just wanted to chime in and say that I disagree with this proposed voting idea. Clearly the feedback process could stand some improvement and player polls should be more accessible, but if any of you think that CCP is going to sacrifice its creative vision to a self-imposed democracy, you're out of your minds.

They've already told us what they're going to do. 1.1 on the 19th and the next iteration 14 days later. They've prioritized performance issues over logistics. A player with only spinning discs and no inventory system at all doesn't care much about right click functionality. They've also said they're discussing customizable shortcuts, dragging tree entries to the hangar and the neocom, and hopefully permanent shortcuts for the station/corp hangars.

I agree that regardless of the inent, the term "vocal minority" wasn't very complimentary. Even if it's accurate, it has a dismissive connotation and wasn't well-received here either. I'm still interested in this issue even though I've ceased writing about it. My gameplay is still lacking. I'm just writing on other topics because we have days until the next development here. There's already thousands of comments on the subject. But calling for heads to roll and being generally uncouth isn't going to make the wait any more bearable. We've got 5 days until the 19th and 19 more to 7/3rd. That's the timeline we're on.

At least give the devs a chance to iterate and see what happens before you start burning tires in the streets.

Yonis Kador


I'm all for giving the devs a chance to iterate.

I just think they should communicate, too. There isn't sufficient detail on anything they've said to even begin to guess if it will address the problems; there have been lots of suggestions that haven't been responded to at all.

But I quite agree that a vote isn't going to do anything. I'm not at all convinced that the problem is they don't believe there's a problem -- although the fact that nobody but Goliath is responding makes it feel that way. But despite the dismissing "vocal minority" comment, I really doubt that's the case.

We've got 5 days until the 19th. A statement from development as to what they believe will be in that release would do a lot to address player concerns. Even if it were 100% performance, an indication of what the target is for 7/3 would help.

I suspect Goliath is as tired of not being able to tell us stuff as we are.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#804 - 2012-06-15 01:31:40 UTC
In the sense that everyone would like this issue behind us, I'm sure you're right. The problem is that once one commits to something, he loses developmental freedom. The answer may well be that they don't know what they can restore, what they're willing to change, or the rate at which the playerbase is adapting to the new UI. These are the people after all who declared war on multiple windows. They may still be in shock that there were so many people out there who liked those. I suspect part of the issue too is that their premise is that with enough time, most people will adapt. You can't even test that premise without waiting and patience isn't fun for anyone. I do agree that even a rough outline of what is planned for future iterations could set minds at ease but at this point we don't know if they even know what they're going to do yet.

YK
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#805 - 2012-06-15 02:03:10 UTC
ZaBob wrote:

I'm all for giving the devs a chance to iterate.

I just think they should communicate, too. There isn't sufficient detail on anything they've said to even begin to guess if it will address the problems; there have been lots of suggestions that haven't been responded to at all.

But I quite agree that a vote isn't going to do anything. I'm not at all convinced that the problem is they don't believe there's a problem -- although the fact that nobody but Goliath is responding makes it feel that way. But despite the dismissing "vocal minority" comment, I really doubt that's the case.

We've got 5 days until the 19th. A statement from development as to what they believe will be in that release would do a lot to address player concerns. Even if it were 100% performance, an indication of what the target is for 7/3 would help.

I suspect Goliath is as tired of not being able to tell us stuff as we are.


Why should the devs have the chance to iterate? It's blatently obvious that the deployment of the Unified Inventory WAS a stupid idea because of how much work they have to put into it to try (and fail) to get it to work. Yes. Programmers aren't gods. They aren't perfect. There's always bugs. There will always be something to be fixed in a program with any notable level of complexity. Everytime a new feature is released, it's almost guaranteed that a few bugs will slip past the testing phase. This isn't bitching about a few bugs that went unnoticed before the Unified Inventory got into the hands of the player base at large. This about glaring problems that have been known since Day 1 on the test server. This is about glaring loss of functionality. This pile of **** shouldn't be going through iteration on the LIVE server. It should be sitting on the test server, going through iterations THERE. Live is *NOT* where you beta test. You don't deploy BROKEN garbage onto the live server.

What hostility we've shown to the devs doesn't even compare to the disrespect of deploying something they KNEW was that broken onto a live server.
Khorinth
Shot the Food
#806 - 2012-06-15 02:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Khorinth
I'm not a complainer and I never get on the forums. But this inventory system is a pain in the butt. I would really just like an option to use the old system. Put the old code back in as a seperate object and allow the players to choose the system they want to use. I know its not that simple but it is easier then the alternative.

Windows has the option of mulitple windows or open new window in existing window. I like multiple windows and really need them with the 500GB files I move around between servers and processing data accross thousands of miles in my real job. Would really like it back to the way it was in here.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#807 - 2012-06-15 03:19:29 UTC
Jonuts wrote:


Why should the devs have the chance to iterate?


Only because at this point, the alternatives are:


  1. Leave it broken.
  2. Break it worse.


Indeed, the reason we are in this pickle, is because they failed to iterate on their design before releasing it. If *they* had been patient enough to iterate until done before release -- well, we wouldn't have it yet, at least.
Zelman Axe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#808 - 2012-06-15 05:06:33 UTC
It doesnt matter how much polish you put on this turd its still a turd, man up and admit you failed and do the right thing ROLL IT BACK or recode the inventory the same as the old one, everyone will be happy to have an extended downtime to roll it back to normal.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#809 - 2012-06-15 08:29:55 UTC
Gainard wrote:
You (CCP) are not getting any constructive posts anymore, because every possible solution (and some weird stuffBlink) has already been posted a dozen times in all related threads. No constructive reply leaves us just with the option to wine on.


This. Absolutely.

Time and time again CCP have been told what the main gripes people have and how to fix them. They have put the odd fix in here and there, but the most annoying and frustrating ones remain.

What else can we do ? Please tell us, so that this pile of crap can be sorted.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#810 - 2012-06-15 12:40:53 UTC
Soon, we will start seeing the announcements that CCP Personnel are heading out for summer vacation. That is what might push work on this project all the way through the Winter holidays (per CCP Soundwaffe's initial work schedule posting).

Before that happens, we need to push for closure on what is still a highly unpolished and yet critically necessary feature of the EVE entertainment service.

@ CCP: Believe it or not, we have your best interests at heart. That which makes the game usable and fun for your customers also makes for good marketing and more revenue through word-of-mouth advertising and PLEX sales. Help us to help you, in other words.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2012-06-15 13:02:24 UTC
Khorinth wrote:
I'm not a complainer and...But this inventory system is a pain in the butt...

^^

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.

Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#812 - 2012-06-15 13:05:34 UTC
spiders vengance wrote:
...Things that used to take just a couple seconds now takes minutes...

^^

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.

Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#813 - 2012-06-15 13:14:38 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
functionality is not the same with this new ui as with the old.

4 corp hangers at a pos.

old system, right clcik 4 times all 28 hangers in 4 stacked windows. change to corp division 1, click each corp hanger wondow and you can see whats in all 4 hangers corp division 1 with 4 click, rinse repeat with all 4 corp hangers, division after division

new system shift click 28 times. 28 windows, now try to search through 4 corp hanger division 1's... go on, try.
now try division 2, 3 4, 5, 6 and 7...

oh it gets better, warp away( all 28 windows become your cargo window and dont auto close), come back.... do it again and again and again... i bet you jsut give up as its a nightmare

why have you removed right click menus that actually have a function ccp?

^^

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#814 - 2012-06-15 13:48:05 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:

why have you removed right click menus that actually have a function ccp?


Thank god they havent removed the 'Resign as CEO' option when you right click your name in the fleet window. I dont know what i would do without that.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#815 - 2012-06-15 14:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:

why have you removed right click menus that actually have a function ccp?


Thank god they havent removed the 'Resign as CEO' option when you right click your name in the fleet window. I dont know what i would do without that.


yeh and when you click your ship in station, having the opions to go to the captians closet is just win, i know there is a big button on teh station window, but people would ever find that massive button there anyhow.
add to that the 3 market ones(view market details. find in contracts, and add to market quickbar) and i find it so easy to forget all the options that ment something and produced persistant windows with just 1 click.
open corp hangers, open fuel bay, open drone bay, open ore hold.. why were they ever there?

now with open ui, scroll scroll, click(crap shift click) scroll some more, click(crap shift click) drag to tree, scroll scroll drop. i find i never get bored with just 1 clicking functions anymore, moving items is now a mini game of ui battles. its strange the ui almost always wins, i guess i need to battle with it more

OMG when can i get a pic here

Ariane VoxDei
#816 - 2012-06-15 14:42:28 UTC
Not getting a list of incoming changes makes it rather hard to give meaningful feedback.

So we will see your hand on monday.
Yes, I could have chosen to provide my preliminary list of needed workarounds, but I get a sense of being 'dumstædig' on CCPs part, so I am just going to wait and make a thorough post next week when I have had time to grind it through various tasks.
Also postponing all other points in this thread until then. I have a weekend with part of the family coming up and I am not going to let this get in the way.
Jack Mancetti
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#817 - 2012-06-15 15:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Mancetti
Any news to this scheiß-leftklick disaster ,i want back the good working old Inventory !!!
MaverickScot
Unidentified Flying Saucer
#818 - 2012-06-15 15:24:39 UTC
CCP, why when we complain about a fix that was not required you will not roll back to the old system such as with this rubbish UI. Yet War dec it was returned almost immediatley because it was broken. Every one except a minority did not want this UI and told you, CCP, at the test stage.

Since this is about the UI why is it every time I 'loot all' I then end up with two cargoholds open on top of each other once the can closes. This is frustrating. Try to fix one thing then break something else.

I repeat what i have said before. Give us back the old system and move this UI into assets where it should have been all along. Give the players what they want please.
Gainard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#819 - 2012-06-15 15:47:09 UTC
We've broken the 40 pages limit. They have probably opened a new thread by now and no devs are reading this anymore. At least thats my conclusion after I have previously posted in three other threads on this topic that have gone cold.

So save your breath until you have found the currently active thread Sad

Man, I train for certain goals and then the related skills / modules / ships get nerfed. I hate to be addicted to EVE.

Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#820 - 2012-06-15 17:48:08 UTC
Kody Grey wrote:
I would like to give a goldstar to every CCP employee involved in this process of working hard (overtime?) to apply numerous fixes to a system that replaced another system that wasn't broken in the first place to get the new system at least in the same ballpark of functionality as the old system all the while telling your customers that didn't want the new system in the first place how hard and quickly you have worked to fix it.

And to think the year is only almost half over, not sure how this effort can be topped, really.


+1