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New dev blog: This Week In The Unified Inventory

First post First post
Author
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#521 - 2012-05-30 06:27:30 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything.

Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful.
http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY


This guy pretty much got it bang on. Listen to him CCP. He knows what he's talking about.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#522 - 2012-05-30 06:30:55 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
You can fix this yourself through the system menu / shortcuts tab. Just rebind ALT+C to "Open cargo of active ship" instead of "Open Inventory".

Sanya Mazepa wrote:
ALT + C inside station should open your cargo, instead it opens the unified invenotry window with whatever you were looking at last... this is not how it should be. Please fix asap!

Overall a nice addition to eve once all the kinks are ironed out. +1



We don’t want to fix it ourselves, we want YOU to fix it, seeing as you broke it in the first place.

Another shortcut is not the answer. Double-clicking on your hanger screen is the answer. Just do it FFS.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#523 - 2012-05-30 06:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Quote:
Today, I'm mining--in between spates of screaming obscenities at my monitor.


jezz man it's just a video game. I don't think I've ever yelled at a video game in my life.
not that your frustration is unwarrentled mind you, just, yeah dude, give it a stupid look and play something else while they fix this up. Not wroth getting so upset over you start swearing at it, it can't hear you.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#524 - 2012-05-30 06:35:11 UTC
Zac Solo wrote:
Dawnmist wrote:
1 account went already and when this one expires tomorrow it is -2.

See you when inventory is fixed and nice reactivation offer with apology drops from the mailbox.

(And please do not delete this message again. It is not whining or against the forum rules in any way)

-1 in 6 days and -2 in 12 more good job ccp


-2 in 2 days, another -3 in 10 days.

Bye bye
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#525 - 2012-05-30 06:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Selas Rega wrote:
why dont deal with it tomorrow and remove the UI until you did it well and it works like the old one? did you fire your quality managment?


Removing the UI would be a great deal more complex and time consuming than just making it better than the old one. This isn't something that can easily be detached.



Well, it’s been a week since the patch, and another 4 since this crap hit SISI, and we have got virtually nowhere. At this rate it will take a couple of months to get it anywhere useable.

So, it will probably NOT take longer to get the original UI back.

Suck it up, accept that you have screwed up BIG time, and just revert. It will do your credibility a power of good, as at the moment you have exactly ZERO.


Oh yeah, I seem to remember that reverting to the hanger view from CQ was also “next to impossible” to do.

You seemed to manage that.
Enzaki
Kenshin.
Initiative Mercenaries
#526 - 2012-05-30 07:00:01 UTC
Loose End wrote:
Spanking Monkeys wrote:
WolfSchwarzMond wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:

I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, l.


Ok I've tried and tried to figure out a way to use this thing as well as the old one...It cannot be done. Here is why.


Opening multiple cans/wrecks lags the entire game. For mission looting this makes the game almost unplayable. For Jetcan Miners like me it causes us to lose cycles which is lost isk.
The loading time on the windows is just unacceptable. 0.5-2mins to load your own hold if your're in a POS. 3mins to load a Ship Maintence array.
Opening all the holds on a Rorqual or an Orca now takes twice as many clicks as it did and you have to play with the little tree.
Opening Corp hangers where you can read them requires a window that is so very large, you can't really do anything else.
Opening Corp hanger with Security Roles and a Large Corp will almost if not totally crash Eve.
The little graph that indicates cargo hold seems to generate lag.
The new window header and footer makes the amount of room to see Items even smaller then the old way did making you blow the window up bigger resulting in less room to work mutiple windows. This is a major issue when working a Rorqual/Orca
It does not remember window locations/size when you dock/undock
If you misclick and don't press shift you have to start all over. Try picking No Back Button.
The Filters tree? menu? won't stay down.
When you remove Items from your cargo hold into the Item hanger using only 1 window, it auto sorts them forcing you to search for the new items. Think of having to haul in some mods for a new ship fitting, Before you could justdrop them in the Item hanger get in new ship fit the mods cause they were at the bottom of the items. Now drop them in, get in new ship and SEARCH for mods they're not at the bottom like they were they're sorted in with everything else.....
The search function on the new UI RESETS every time you change Hangers/hold this makes locating a specific item a pain.
Moving large amounts of items generates Lag or results in some Items not being moved.
It is now stupidly easy to drop something in the wrong location.....forcing you to go look for it.
Previously if you had Tab 2 in your Orca Corp hanger opened and then opened POS Corp Hanger or SAA Tab 2 would open by default. Now it just opens the 1st tab.
The loot all button does NOT stack ore in the holds nor does it give you the option to take just as much ore as will fit in your hold it's all or nothing.
EVERYTHING to do with dealing with items now takes LONGER and is harder to do. This system IMHO is a step BACKWARD in that it is not simple to operate. You are forcing us for some reason I cannot fathom to use a system that is inherently more difficult to operate then the old one. This is not a "get used to it issue" This system is not as intelligent as the old one.

A great number of your CUSTOMERS, are upset about your product. You need to be willing to accept that while someone thought this was the way to go, your CUSTOMERS, the people you work for, the people who PAY you for your product DO NOT LIKE IT. Do us all a favor. Admit the mistake and correct it

This
CCP Optimal wrote:
and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
Is IMHO the wrong thing to say. Most people will read it as "this is what you will now use. Get used to it." Also CCP made it, CCP can UNMAKE IT so it is not technically impossible. Saying that is lying to your customers. It may be difficult and you don't want to do it, that doesn't mean you cannot do it.

I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar Pétursson, CEO
You are failing as hosts at this time.



this needs to be said until you at CCP take it on board.

you have broken your product, no amount of time or use will take away from the fact that a reduction in functionality is not acceptible.
the system is broken as a concept. 'you need multiple windows so we give you one..' that the hell were you smoking when you came up with this?
why didnt you wait to roll this on to tq, when all the feed back said it wasnt ready?


Here Here! Bravo!


+1 that is so true
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2012-05-30 07:04:50 UTC
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
Tried it after the patch.

Still sucks the sweat of a dead man's balls.

What is the point of shift-click? ....


Just as i said. The new UI aka. treenightmare, dont working without old function. That's why need to open new windows with shift+click. The all new UI tree concept it's a fail.
A cargo container,wreck,shipbay,ship cargobay,backpack,pouch,bag not have folders. These things not files for filemanager.
These thing needs separated windows, but not need filemanager with treepanel.
BlackTalon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#528 - 2012-05-30 07:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: BlackTalon
Well ccp seem your gone an bit deaf been watching these post for an week 90% want old system back but your still trying to fix an broken ui.jesus listen to the people who pay to play we want the old system back its more user friendly then this new ui .i cant believe you didnt listen to the feed back from test server as some post say they said there where big problems with this ui .thou the last patch helped an bit its still an bloody crappy ui i want to be able to move stuff around fast from my item,s to corp hangers to diff containers the old system was best for this i hate to see an long tree to scroll threw drop down its uness i knew where every think was before didnt need an silly tree to drop down every time.Please listen to us this new ui is no good what so ever i vote to roll back to old system any who agress spread the word and post here we want old ui back
Lexxxii
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#529 - 2012-05-30 07:16:26 UTC
I’ll post this again, and will keep posting it until you do something useful.....




A lot of the issues over the new inventory system are really quite simple to fix. You just need to get your heads out of your ass and LISTEN.

1. Bring back the clickable buttons that just open a single hanger (Ships, Items, Corp Hanger). Make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. Make the tree view hidden by default.

2. Reinstate the important right-click shortcuts.... Open fuel bay, drone bay, ships hanger, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, Corp hanger. Again, make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. It REALLY REALLY is not a bad thing to have important stuff in the right-click menu when it improves functionality. Like others have said, remove some of the redundant ones instead, like undock etc.

3. Double clicking in your main hanger should open your cargo ONLY. Not the whole inventory, that’s what the button on the Neocom is for. Make this window remember size and position and make the tree view hidden by default. Same applies when clicking the cargo icon while in space.

4. Open a wreck in a new window. Make this window remember size and position. Keep the loot all button.

5. Give an option to hide the ISK value from the inventory windows, it is not something that we would use all the time, it just takes up space. It can be un-hidden when needed.

6. Reduce the size of the volume bar at the top of the window. Again, it just takes up space, revert to the previous thinner bar.

I cannot believe that this stuff would be difficult to implement, and it would go a long way to reducing the rage most people are feeling at the moment.
Loose End
The Big Bambu
#530 - 2012-05-30 07:50:03 UTC
Even Windows Internet Explorer has enough sense to use tabs instead of a tree. How about a Unified where you add or remove tabs like your Neocom does? Or be able to customize which set of tabs you want to see from your Neocom. One for the POS. One for hangar. One for Corp Hangar. Etc ad nauseum. Scrap your screwup. Admit you've misunderstood the needs of the players. Move on and make a name for yourself. Fix what you've broken.
Zebs Clone
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#531 - 2012-05-30 07:50:15 UTC
so 4 or is it 5 posts now, most with 30 plus pages of negative feed back and requests to get either the old UI back, or ALL of its functonality restored and where are we??

CCP say we have to get used to it. give it a try, its good, its not the UI that is wrong its you the customer.

LOL this really does make me want to give up on the best part of 7 years in this game. its not only to do with this crappy UI, its to do with your total disrespect for all the feed back your paying customers have and are giving you for months.

its pretty simple at the end of the day, most people will not be happy until your restore the functionality you have taken away.

Ytamii Arval
#532 - 2012-05-30 07:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ytamii Arval
CCP Optimal wrote:

I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why.


Okay, here's why I can't fit ships with the new UI:

1. my monitor's screen is 41mm across; resolution is the default 1366x768.

2. when fitting, I need to have the expanded fitting window on screen, which is 27mm across.

3. I need to move modules and ammo in and out of three different containers. Each of the three needs to have a different view than the others; specifically, one is Icon, one is Detail, the third is LIst. Has to be this way. So, I'm forced to constantly click the view selection icons, as well as stopping to find and click the next container I need. Used to just have all three open all the time, but the windows cannot be made small enough to do that at a useable size anymore (see number 5 for size details).

4. with the new UI, the minimum useable screen width for any container window is 25mm across.

5. there you have it: at this screen resolution, I need a screen 25mm+27mm across which totals 52mm. The physical screen is only 41mm across. It's the tree portion of the window which necessitates it being so wide. For client stability, I'm forced to run windowed, so there's not enough space to fit the tree/container window under the fitting window either.

6. the tree/container design simply doesn't fit. As I said previously, I need the UI to duplicate the functionality of the old UI. In this case, I need to have no tree in any window, and I need the windows to not have the space wasting (and bogus) estimated price line or the meaningless item count, and I need them to never forget their pinned position and size and view (the single worst thing about the new UI is that windows spawn with the most recently used view instead of the most recent for that particular window). Or to put it simply, I need it to work exactly like the old UI.

7. no point in listing all the issues in mining and looting, because the needed fixes are the same as what I just said.
Makaganti
Doomheim
#533 - 2012-05-30 08:06:28 UTC
Good People of eve ccp need to be punished ccp need to know this is our game we pay an therefore we own eve

Please people of eve boycott eve for 23hrs show ccp they can't ignore us, help to train ccp how to listen

I'm proposing 1st June eve time turn off eve go spend quality time with your wife/husband, your girlfriend/boyfriend family friends if you have none of this then go out side or watch tv do anything or rob the local 7/11 Twisted

Its time for action ladies and gentlemen

With unity there is power

With Unity there is Power

BlackTalon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#534 - 2012-05-30 08:06:50 UTC
eve channel ui action
Andy DelGardo
#535 - 2012-05-30 08:19:41 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything.

Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful.
http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY


+1
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#536 - 2012-05-30 08:43:42 UTC
Could you please group the POS modules by something? it's still kinda chatoic to find anything at a POS, rapidly. Currently my corp feels like reverted back to the 90s, naming everything like !CHA, !SMA, !Silo, etc, to have them at the top of the list, avoiding searching through gazillions of small and medium guns, which appear all the way, as noise. Last time we had to use such a thing was the msdos times :)

Also, it'd be very nice to be able to reorder the opened cans. Pre-thisstuff we could do this with those tabs.

Next to this, the tree panel still jumps around when i'm moving items from one anything to another.

I still can't find a place to set up the default colums to display, and the default type of display (icons, list view, etc).

The upper-right filter input box resets whenever i change divisions or whatever. Previously I could check all corp hangars for the same filter text, just by clicking through the tabs, now the filter text has to be entered every single time, which is quite annoying.

The treepanel is still automaticly resizing when i resize an inventory window, which is also annoying. I'm not resizing the whole window to see more of the index panel, but to see more of the items themselves.

It would also be good to be able to have (or be able to make) the "open" icon in the "selected item" window to open always in a separate window. I don't know everyones preference, but in 90% of the cases we're using it that way.
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#537 - 2012-05-30 08:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Having spoken to a number of players who I consider to be representative of the silent majority, I'm concerned about the impact of this current strategy of releasing a buggy/functionally poor feature that impacts everyone, then iterating on it gradually.

These silent players are the ones who don't visit the forums, they have no interest in reading devblogs, they don't read the website or fansites and they ignore in-game banners and news. I am often stunned by their ignorance of all matters EVE, but each to their own. They just want to log in and play their game. I suspect these uninformed masses far outnumber any of us who are taking the time to post/comment/rant in view of CCP employees.

The feedback I got from them was one of accepting apathy. They weren't particularly impressed with the Unified Inventory and they found it to be a chore, but they were working around it. No fuss, no complaining - they were just trying to carry on with their chosen game experience despite this new barrier.

This worries me - by making rolling iterations to a flawed release, CCP are taking the gamble of relying on this type of "herd" player to keep playing and keep paying. Any subtle improvements introduced gradually will likely pass them by because they are not particularly well-informed. They will either quietly adapt to the new system as initially released or they will just as quietly disappear and find a new gaming environment.

I suppose the only way to watch out for an exodus of these grazing players is to watch the PCU numbers, but this seems like a dangerous gamble.
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2012-05-30 08:56:03 UTC
Hello CCP, i would like to make people aware of a coding problem in the Unified Inventory.

The TreeView and the Content parts of the window can be activated by clicking on them, so if you click on the TreeView it gets activated and you can manipulate it but after you click the content window the TreeView gets deactivated and you can no longer manipulated it until you reclick on it.

The problem with this behaviour is when you try to drag stuff from the content window to a container that is outside the TreeView and requires scroling, since you can't click while dragging as that would drop the contents you drag its renders you impossible to move the objects.

Please change the mechanic so that the parts of the window activate on hover and not on clicking. This would let us activate the TreeView to Enable Scrolling without the need to drop the items we are dragging.

Thank You!
Disdaine
#539 - 2012-05-30 09:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Disdaine
Radar sites.

Attempt to open a guarded can, displays can is being guarded message then open your inventory window with ships cargo.

Open a can, resize window, minimize tree, perfect (well nearly, would love to hide the useless isk value, and filter bars). This is now the window settings for your ships cargo.

I hate this unified inventory so much, couldn't even get the resizing tree / items section right. Resizing by dragging the right border to the right should adjust the items section so you can see more items, then you have to go back and resize your now larger tree panel. Basic stuff guys.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#540 - 2012-05-30 10:04:49 UTC
Cruachan Argylle wrote:


Hilmar, with every passing day, this is making you look like a liar. We read your last missive, maybe your staff didn't.




This

Everyone ask him about this on Twitter: @HilmarVeigar