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New dev blog: This Week In The Unified Inventory

First post First post
Author
Pidgeon Saissore
DNS Requiem
Warped Intentions
#561 - 2012-05-31 01:29:33 UTC
The problem I see most of is that the new invintory loads more data then is necessary for an immediate situation. The problem with it is that something load when you dont want it to which significantly effects computer performance without any practical use. Most notably when looting wrecks in missions and the like it loads your ships cargo every time you open something even if it is already open which causes a delay that hinders the ability to salvage quickly which hurts quite a bit when attempting to on the move. Also it loads my several hundred item invintory when I am only trying to change ships which potentially crashes the client.

The solution that I sugest for it is that there be a way to open seperate windows of it which do not have the whole tree linked at all. This will eliminate the lag caused by the extra stuff you werent intending to look at anyway.

To do this each invintory window will need to be able to be added to the neocom seperately along with the full tree being available. When first assembling your neocom inventory sections simply drag a tab from the tree to the neocom. Windows split like this will have no link and therefore no associated lag caused by the client trying to open all of your assets. The full inventory will still be available regardless of what has been isolated.

In the case of tabs that arent in the location that you are currently in for instantance ship maint bays and corp hangars from capitals and pos structures there should be a tab in the invintory tree that has a generic form of them. Corp hangar tabs will still all be in the same window unless specifically split once they are open.

My final neocom setting regarding invintory will look something like this:
anything i would set as a tab here would also be available as a seperate icon on neocom

1 Ship hangar (if at a pos or near multiple carriers it will have seperate tabs for each of them in the window)
2 Item hangar (tabs for each container in it to move a whole container to a cargo simply drag the whole tab)
3 Active Ship cargo
4 Inactive ship cargos (seperate tab for each)
5 Corperate hangar (tabs available as normal)
6 Unified inventory tree

On a related note the inventory tree should not display all items only give a way to open all the windows in it.
Hoshino Rika
Perkone
Caldari State
#562 - 2012-05-31 22:54:51 UTC
Dear CCP.

Please let us choose if we want to use old or new system.
As you wanted feedback, ill write something constructive. To make eve perfect game, allow us to put eve windows outside main game window, GIMP-style. That would make this game perfect.

With regards.

Eve-fan
Selieania
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#563 - 2012-05-31 23:59:04 UTC
The new unified inventory is terrible. Laggy. Glitchy. Complete waste of time. Search criteria clear every time you click on another window which you HAVE to do. Change it back
PLEASE
Teclador
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#564 - 2012-06-01 02:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Teclador
CCP Phantom wrote:
The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious.

Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by Lead Game Designer CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here.

Please use this thread for feedback, thank you.


Hey CCP, don't you get it?

WE WONT HAVE ANY IMPROVEMENTS OF THE NEW UNIFIED INVENTORY, WE WANT THE OLD INVENTORY BACK.
Leocadminone
Gem Concordance
#565 - 2012-06-01 02:18:17 UTC
I don't understand why CCP can't understand that the WHOLE CONCEPT of forcing folks to do all inventory management in one window is BROKEN BY CONCEPT.

If you can't see where you are moving stuff TOO, it becomes a significant waste of time and a MUCH bugger pain to do any sort of inventory management.

ROLL BACK the whole "unified inventory" stupidity, the CONCEPT is where it is broken, no amount of "fiddling with the broken implimentation" is going to rescue THIS turkey.
Cold Ethyl
FetLife
#566 - 2012-06-01 04:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cold Ethyl
.
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC
#567 - 2012-06-01 04:27:23 UTC
Has Hilmar appologized yet?
Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2012-06-01 12:53:30 UTC
Pidgeon Saissore wrote:

The problem I see most of is that the new invintory loads more data then is necessary for an immediate situation
...
The problem with it is that something load when you dont want it to which significantly effects computer performance without any practical use
...

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.

Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#569 - 2012-06-01 12:56:18 UTC
Hoshino Rika wrote:
Dear CCP.
... allow us to put eve windows outside main game window, GIMP-style. That would make this game perfect.
With regards.
Eve-fan

+1 ... but, why do you think CCP know what is GIMP?.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.

Miner Mule
Grizly Bears
Grizly Bears Alliance
#570 - 2012-06-01 13:14:17 UTC
Ahhh I'm close to quitting this game. Logged off at 0600 EST in the states, came back on at 0800 EST to find half of my containers in my corp office empty. Missing, gone poofies, no longer there. I suspect it has to do with the recent downdate this morning. No one got my PW. I don't visit sites away from EVE. Hell I don't have a life except for Eve. My isk still in my wallet, several bil isk worth of ships are still in my ship hangar bay. What I'm missing, is several hundred million of criminal tags, and sundry salvage most of it as useless as teats on a bull anyway, Then there are all the pieces to my rorqual that I have been slowly assembling, several million in new T-1 and T-2 mining crystals. God knows what all is actually missing. It was there when I signed off, now it seems to be missing. Also missing are the Capital construction BPO's that were in those containers. Yet several bil isk worth of minerals all there, My 2 POS's and all the station crap all missing. Thanks CCP, you completely screwed the pooch this time. You took something that didn't need changing and changed it. It was fine just the way it was. Want to change POS storage fine, leave the corp hangar, item hangar and ship cargo bay's alone. Kiss my 6 accounts goodbye, I am not going to try and replace everything. 3 years wasted on this game, Because instead of fixing things like invention that needed to be fixed, you broke something that didn't need to be fixed,


Ahhh screw it, I'm gone, ciao
blaine thepain
Die Gallier - Abt. Sicherheit
#571 - 2012-06-01 13:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: blaine thepain
Kayrl Bheskagor wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
. . .

First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
. . .
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
. . .
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). . . .

One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.


Seriously??

Ok, about the "biggest complaint" surveys. WHEN were these, and WHERE were these? Buried somewhere in this mess of a forum (same team "organized" the forum as "fixed" the inventory?), or some other obscure place? Here's something that's pretty simple, I would have thought. If you want to do a survey about a game, SEND EVERYONE IN THE GAME an IN-GAME EMAIL about it, with a LINK. There are a lot of problems that players talk/complain about, and I've NEVER heard any of them complain that they have too many windows open. If/when they allegedly complain, did you explain to them that they can NEST the windows, with CUSTOM NAMED TABS, that STAY nested?? It'll display ONE window at a time, even if you have TEN open.

How often is the UI ACTUALLY "constantly" being requested to be changed?

About the inventory though. So, a tree style layout, with way more lag, involving more mouse clicks to do just about everything, and aside from the stupid treed hierarchy, what is it doing that the old inventory DIDN'T? The filters could have been put in the old inventory. The lag inducing inventory tree does the same thing the nested tabs did, without wasting so much screen space. The old inventory could have the display listed the three ways the new one does. The lag inducing tree adds nothing, except lag, and the normal MAJOR GUI problems that accompany EVERY UI update you do.

Lots of players, still a minority unfortunately, ARE, DO and DID say what they didn't like, EXPLICITLY, but most points were ignored.
-So you're fixing the lag - haven't seen evidence of it after today's patch. Still laggy. Fail.
-Maybe you'll allow multiple windows to stay open. Gee, thanks. So the fact that the ship and inventory AREN'T being left open, is intentional?? Fail.
-Window positions and sizes still aren't being remembered (and yes, I've already done the MANDATORY settings resets that are needed after EVERY UI PATCH). Fail
-On every dock/undock, the index is showed, even though the little arrows say it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail
-On every dock/undock, my filters are expanded, even though it says it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail.
-Open a corp hangar in an orca, fly away, and the window stays open. Fail. Same with any external inventory that goes out of range.
-Shift click to open a separate window works about half the time. Likely due to your useless lag-tree.
-Select all might select all, but at least half the time the only items that drag are the ones visible while the rest are left behind. Fail. Likely due to your useless lag-tree.
-Price estimates aren't required on every window. Fail. Right click menu - enable/disable, k?
-The new windows frames waste more space than the original WORKING one. Fail. Put the display format, cargo and filter window on the SAME LINE.
-New inventory can't be disabled. Fail.
-Window behaviour can't be toggled on/off to open in new window as default, instead of nested in the useless, lag inducing tree. Fail. This behaviour needs to be translated to the hot keys for the ships and the station inventory too.
-Right click menu options to access storage areas were removed. Fail.
-Cargohold doesn't default to active ship. Fail
-Doubleclick a ship now makes it active instead of open the cargo hold, like it always used to. Arbitrary change. Fail.

I guess the easiest way to force players to use the useless tree structure, is to remove any other way to do it.

Some actual USEFUL things, "problems" that players actually MENTION.
Auto sort - with enable/disable
Auto stack - with enable disable
Sell from ANY inventory window if you want, as well as trade and contract.


100% aggree :(

How many time has been spend to that new inventory? Since it was releases i stopped activ playing Eve. Just waiting for the fix i can use my windows the old way. Some good ideas comes with the new UI but it seems that the Programmers never played Eve.
Sanya Mazepa
Department of Health and Wellness
#572 - 2012-06-01 14:47:44 UTC
Embrace change
Adapt to change
Profit from change

New inventory ui stays, just needs some modifications.

I dont look forward to going back to the classic inventory system. I love the new inventory ui elements. Some things are a bit annoying but, just like anything new, it'll have bugs that needs to be squashed and optimizations that need to be made.

Has CCP lost all of it's creative control over eve? Seems that way if they listen to all the whiners and cry babies on the forums.
EarthZone
HomeZone
#573 - 2012-06-01 16:05:44 UTC
Can't and won't play with this. Still want classic inventory windows back.
T's little helper
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#574 - 2012-06-01 19:21:29 UTC
I'll now let my accounts expire, one by one. This UI makes the game impossible to use.
If CCP restore the previous UI before the last account expire, i will most likely activate the accounts again and continue eve, but i don't have much hope about it.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#575 - 2012-06-01 19:21:51 UTC
I have given the new inventory a chance. I though that once got used to it, it would be fine.
Major changes like this take time to get used to.
However after several weeks I still hate it. I have had numerous items go missing including several capital BPO's that had several months of research gone into them.
With so many things in this game that actually warranted attention why screw with something that worked so well thew way it was. This is driving me mad having to reorganize All my inventory windows every time I open something new. And It doesn't remember any of the changes I make reverting back to the useless new unified window. This may have worked as a replacement for the assets window with improved search. But as far as inventory management goes loading every item I own on grid every time I open a can or cargo is really annoying, not to mention the complete lack of personalization we had with the old system. This was a bad idea and e3en worse implementation. I really do not see how any amount of tweaking can gewt this any where near as useful as the old system. reducing system resources needed to run things like the inventory is always a good idea, but the optimization does not help when the new system has to deal with way more info. the end result is more lag not less.
blaine thepain
Die Gallier - Abt. Sicherheit
#576 - 2012-06-01 20:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: blaine thepain
After the patch today im sure its going in the right direction. After an hour i have all windows organized like before Inferno.
It's terrible slow, fps drops, useless marked prices, useless inventory tree (except when u start doing some stuff in the inventory u always need it too shift click). Not everything works as intended and so on.

As CCP says: everything was done from scratch because of the old code was not healthy. I would say the old code was perfectly optimized during the years by good employes who understand what they do. The new guys who say "the code is broken, we cant fix it -> means realy : how the f*** this could work i can't understand it.

So we have a great "charakter generator", great shiny and blinky "Captain Quarters" and a new superior inventory.
All of them captured a lot of workhorses to find the way to TQ. All of them are useless.

Captain Quarters would be interressting in 5 Years or so what (maybe)
Also the great "Charakter Generator". A new one "Heads Only" more then enough (Saving all the time for creating the clothes)
Inventory "If you done with it to get all the feeling, speed and handling like before Inferno the code looks also terrible im sure"

Other MMORPG's would be killed by a newer and better MMORPG (if it possible it's the same MMORPG with a shiny "II" after the name.

EVE would be killed by EVE and there is nothing behind it.

Good Job CCP. Hopefuly all the other changes "features" are great.
And youre right -> the Universe is on fire

Edit: all of this makes me really sad. Everything could be fine if only broken things would be fixed. Eve don't need new blinky and shiny stuff. There is enough for years for CCP to optimize and us to play with it.
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
#577 - 2012-06-01 21:40:44 UTC
Miner Mule wrote:
Ahhh I'm close to quitting this game. Logged off at 0600 EST in the states, came back on at 0800 EST to find half of my containers in my corp office empty. Missing, gone poofies, no longer there. I suspect it has to do with the recent downdate this morning. No one got my PW. I don't visit sites away from EVE. Hell I don't have a life except for Eve. My isk still in my wallet, several bil isk worth of ships are still in my ship hangar bay. What I'm missing, is several hundred million of criminal tags, and sundry salvage most of it as useless as teats on a bull anyway, Then there are all the pieces to my rorqual that I have been slowly assembling, several million in new T-1 and T-2 mining crystals. God knows what all is actually missing. It was there when I signed off, now it seems to be missing. Also missing are the Capital construction BPO's that were in those containers. Yet several bil isk worth of minerals all there, My 2 POS's and all the station crap all missing. Thanks CCP, you completely screwed the pooch this time. You took something that didn't need changing and changed it. It was fine just the way it was. Want to change POS storage fine, leave the corp hangar, item hangar and ship cargo bay's alone. Kiss my 6 accounts goodbye, I am not going to try and replace everything. 3 years wasted on this game, Because instead of fixing things like invention that needed to be fixed, you broke something that didn't need to be fixed,


Ahhh screw it, I'm gone, ciao

bumped for effect
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
#578 - 2012-06-01 21:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fukushuu Shinaide
Sanya Mazepa wrote:
Embrace change
Adapt to change
Profit from change

New inventory ui stays, just needs some modifications.

I dont look forward to going back to the classic inventory system. I love the new inventory ui elements. Some things are a bit annoying but, just like anything new, it'll have bugs that needs to be squashed and optimizations that need to be made.

Has CCP lost all of it's creative control over eve? Seems that way if they listen to all the whiners and cry babies on the forums.

The day I let a two month old wet behind the ears pigeon eater sway my opinion into pretending I'm blind is the day I go play WoW. Wait until you have a few THOUSAND items and a dozen or more ships to deal with. Then proclaim how great it is you brownnoseing bootlicker.
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
Happy Cartel
#579 - 2012-06-01 22:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrkala
I found a small issue with the layouting design, currently its taking up a bit too much space to display data that could be displayed in a smaller footprint, mainly on the bottom part of the window but improvements could also be made to the top part as well, however that may be a bit trickier to fix without it becoming too cluttered.


See the image to see how it currently is and a proposal to hopefully improve:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Myrkala/InventoryTweak.png

I know the top part would probably get very cramped when you resize the window down to its smallest possible size,
but my main gripe is with the two line text output at the bottom, the border it creates is just too thick


Some other thoughts:

Double clicking "Index" while it is open should minimize it again, I don't like having to move my mouse to do it, sometimes you just want to take a "peek" and you could do that really fast if you wouldnt have to move your mouse. Clicking the "Index" label right now has no function. In contrast double clicking on a ship name in the tree opens/closes that "branch".


MERGE Character sheet and Training Queue
Its obvious how redundant the Training Queue window is when you click that button in the character sheet and window that looks almost the same opens up... just make the button add/slide out a queue list to the character sheet when it is selected.

The queue info is already displayed in the normal skill overview too (blue and light blue boxes), seems like a half finished job at the moment.
walmartsux
Deep Black Industries
#580 - 2012-06-04 05:25:12 UTC
I haven't commented yet on the inventory tree cause i wanted to keep an open mind and give it a try before judging.. The trial time has elapsed and I am thoroughly annoyed used to my cans would open in a stack and my cargo always separate. It is in no way helpful to have the new can i am opening to come up over my cargo that i am trying to fill. why is it when i select all ores to drop in a can and it gets dropped over a ore that doesn't match that ore type it gets kicked back to my cargo?? It used to just create a new stack of that type at the end now i have to make sure to drop between items or i get to do it for every type of ore in my cargo. Thoroughly disgusted with the new system and await its removal..