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Combat frigate changes for Inferno

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Anxiir
#81 - 2012-04-23 22:02:02 UTC
I know its useless to even reply but I can't support the Merlin nerf.

You are taking away the only thing that made it good.

However, a damage bonus on the Punisher... Its about time! How about adding a third mid so it can hit something moving faster than a battleship without having to add tracking enhancers. In fact I would be very pleased if it just added a third mid slot and kept the current bonus with a bit more cpu. Hell you could even just give it damage and tracking bonus, in its current state it tanks extremely well for a t1 frigate, much like its t2 counterparts

The incursus is in dire need of a buff. But the current idea makes me wonder what is going to happen to the Tristan, the real brawler of the Gallente frigate lineup

As Gallente, i like free stuff, but it doesn't seem right giving Gallente 2x powerhouse frigates, Caldari is left with none (assuming the nerf goes through - it will), Amarr gets one and Minmatar keeps the Rifter. Just sayin, the Incursus isnt the main combat frigate of Gallente

I know destroyers are not being discuss but for the love of God PLEASE GIVE THE COERCER A SECOND MID SLOT!

TL;DR
Merlin Change

  • Nerfing is Bad
  • It's resist bonus is what made it viable


Incursus Change

  • Decent overall, but why do Gallente get 2x combat frigates (Tristan)
  • The incursus is a lower tier frigate, why is it being buffed to a top tier level
  • Please don't nerf the Tristan too


Punisher Change

  • Damage Bonus: win
  • Only 2 mid slots still. Lets give it a web
  • It may be more benefit in giving it damage and cap use and adding a third mid slot, as it already tanks extremely well


Offtopic - Give the Coercer a second mid slot
Szilardis
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#82 - 2012-04-23 22:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Szilardis
The Merlin's shield resistance bonus is why I have more solo kills in it than any other hull...Take that away AND lower the speed with buffer rigs, and it's pointless.

Honestly there's nothing really wrong at all with the merlin as is...
Xydros
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-04-23 22:24:19 UTC
Not to be rude, but do you even fly frigates?

3 of the boats you listed are viable as is.

The Rifter which you aren't touching, this is good... touching this boat when its that damn good would be sacrilegious. Lol

The Merlin: This boat may not hit hard, but its uses as a heavy tackler aren't to be over looked, its the first shot a newb gets at really having a boat that can tank hard passively and hold down a target while a gang kills it. Its pretty decent solo boat when you get the skills for the guns, so I can totally see changing the hardpoint config... removing the resist bonus is stupid tho as it makes the ships really good.

But shouldn't a caldari boat be rockets?

The Incursus: This boat is an amazing, cheap anti-interceptor platform, its a bit weak so I get adding slots and crap. If you are turning it into a tank boat, what Gallente boat is going to take on the roles of a balls out dog fighter?

The rep bonus is interesting and all, but I don't know how useful itll be in frig warfare, but its worth testing I guess.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#84 - 2012-04-23 22:27:45 UTC
People ! Remember ! *All* frigates will be revamped !! These are not the only ones ! Their sisters are coming !

Hopefully lineup in each race will be good and coherent ; good work IMO for the moment. :-)
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-04-23 22:46:50 UTC

"INCURSUS:

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level"

JESUS H. CHRIST THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER TO PUT ON A FRIGATE.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-04-23 22:54:25 UTC
Eh.

Turning frigates into smaller versions of existing, larger ships (like the Tormentor being a mini-Apoc) is a poor idea. You should be balancing frigs capabilities and bonuses so they work with their class, rather than making them congruent with their larger counterparts. A frigate with a bonus to small weapon range is utterly worthless, since it's totally incompatible with the way one flies a frigate (which is usually at knife-fighting range, getting close, maintaining transversal on larger targets, and shooting down drones). An armor tanked frigate slowly orbiting its target at 15-20km while plinking with Scorch is just going to get one-shot by a Hurricane.

Part of the reason the Rifter is such a good ship is that it's a frigate that plays to the strengths of frigates *as a class*-- it's fast, nimble, and has a tiny sig radius. It has a flexible slot layout (bonused guns plus a utility high, can be shield or armor tanked, actively or passively) and can do enough damage to kill other frigates. It's a good tackler and a good solo ship (for a T1 frigate anyway).

In this vein, I like what you're doing with the Incursus (mostly) since it's fast and gets a local rep bonus (which can help a frigate tank drones while dodging big guns). The Punisher looks like it will still be good at what it does now (heavy tackling). The Merlin looks awful, the Tormentor looks awful. Both ships are slow and bonused to range (typically not a useful bonus on a frigate).

Also, maybe consider giving all T1 frigates a utility highslot? They're so vulnerable to neuting-- giving them a utility high so they could fit undersized guns + a NOS would make them much more practical ships to fly.
Nyx Sophia
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-04-24 00:04:57 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
  • Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare

    • Can you confirm that when you say Inferno you mean Inferno and not Escalation to Inferno?

    Also, will we need need Racial Frigate/Cruiser to III or IV to receive the new skills when this does go live?
    Blakslabeth
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #88 - 2012-04-24 00:44:07 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello folks,
  • There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now


    • Glad to see you're balancing ships but... But I dropped my current skill plan on all my toons and was rapidly training all races to frig 4/cruiser 3/ destroyer 4&5/bc 4&5. I want a month of training back... Total waste of my training time. And not all the toons where perception/willpower but I didn't want your changes to prevent my progression in the future.

    You guys should really get your story straight before you publish - as us peons have to pay for it.
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #89 - 2012-04-24 01:26:42 UTC
    Are you going to be making active armor rep capless?

    The Incursus will still be overshadowed by the Rifter. Which is faster, requires no cap to shoot its guns, and can fit both a web and scram with a active armor tank because of the utility high, has a smaller sig radius, etc... You are forcing the Incursus to fit a cap booster and giving up the web, which it needs to dictate range because it is slower. You are also forcing it to be a armor tank where the Rifter has the flexibility to be either a shield or armor. It also receives utility high slot. Ships that you are pigeonholing shouldn't be entirely crippled and have some flexibility.

    A few suggestions if you are going to keep the armor rep bonus:

    • Make the Incursus faster than the Rifter or have a smaller sig radius.
    • Make the Incursus more like the Comet. This ship is a excellent example of what a Gallente Combat ship should be. Reduce down to two turrets and increase the damage bonus. This will free up a high slot for a utility high slot.

    Anxiir
    #90 - 2012-04-24 01:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Anxiir
    I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.

    Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin

    Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?

    Seems an odd choice IMO.
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #91 - 2012-04-24 01:54:14 UTC
    Anxiir wrote:
    I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.

    Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin

    Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?

    Seems an odd choice IMO.


    I'm assuming the Tristan will fall under either the Bombardment role since it is the stealth bomber base.
    Anxiir
    #92 - 2012-04-24 01:59:42 UTC
    Marcel Devereux wrote:
    Anxiir wrote:
    I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.

    Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin

    Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?

    Seems an odd choice IMO.


    I'm assuming the Tristan will fall under either the Bombardment role since it is the stealth bomber base.


    Yes thats true. That also points to a different issue with how the ships were implemented to begin with. I can only assume the Tristan was chosen as the bomber hull because it had a split weapons system. But for the other races, the lesser tier 3 was chosen.

    So does this mean my precious Tristan is going to be nerfed to hell to bring the Incursus to the top tier 3 Gallente frigate so it is in line with the scheme of the other races?
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #93 - 2012-04-24 02:06:59 UTC
    Anxiir wrote:
    Marcel Devereux wrote:
    Anxiir wrote:
    I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.

    Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin

    Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?

    Seems an odd choice IMO.


    I'm assuming the Tristan will fall under either the Bombardment role since it is the stealth bomber base.


    Yes thats true. That also points to a different issue with how the ships were implemented to begin with. I can only assume the Tristan was chosen as the bomber hull because it had a split weapons system. But for the other races, the lesser tier 3 was chosen.

    So does this mean my precious Tristan is going to be nerfed to hell to bring the Incursus to the top tier 3 Gallente frigate so it is in line with the scheme of the other races?


    At fanfest they announced they are getting rid of tiers. Each frigate should be getting a buff.
    Lord Aliventi
    Minmatar Fleet Logistics
    Minmatar Fleet Associates
    #94 - 2012-04-24 02:08:13 UTC
    Please keep the shield resist bonus on the Merlin. I am fine with losing one of the other bonuses to get it.

    oh and BTW love the 3rd turret on the Merlin.
    Ganthrithor
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #95 - 2012-04-24 02:26:18 UTC
    There are no tiers anymore, just classes. Frigates be frigates. Honestly, this is how the game should be-- now we just have to convince CCP to make them all useful for something.
    MercenaryBlue
    Federation.D'Aldeberan
    #96 - 2012-04-24 02:30:58 UTC
    I must really speak out against those new rigs change. The reason shield rigs increased radius is because the boosted electronics gave a bigger signature. Shield tanking always allowed us to keep our speed up, and armor tanking kept us on a low signature. There's nothing in armor that could boost the signature. It doesn't make sense. This change will really hurt the very core of the game.
    Anxiir
    #97 - 2012-04-24 02:32:28 UTC
    Marcel Devereux wrote:
    At fanfest they announced they are getting rid of tiers. Each frigate should be getting a buff.

    Ganthrithor wrote:
    There are no tiers anymore, just classes. Frigates be frigates. Honestly, this is how the game should be-- now we just have to convince CCP to make them all useful for something.


    Thanks for the info. That clears up a bit of confusion for me.
    SY5524797
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #98 - 2012-04-24 02:59:22 UTC
    it will be cool for Merlin to be small rokh, so 10% to small hybrid turret range per level an 5% sheild resistances would be prefect.
    Nicolo da'Vicenza
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #99 - 2012-04-24 03:33:14 UTC
    lol 60 PG Tormentor, I can mash more power grid onto that then most of the destroyer-class ships

    i haven't taken a tormentor into combat since i was on trial
    Elder Ozzian
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #100 - 2012-04-24 05:24:20 UTC
    Will there be a ship assigned for mining newbies?

    I disagree!