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Combat frigate changes for Inferno

First post
Author
Kalaratiri
Unitas Nusquam Est
VINDICTIVE
#41 - 2012-04-23 17:33:20 UTC
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Yeah, because armor rep ships are used so much in PvP.


Well, in frigate combat.. yes. Yes they are. Almost all frigates I've seen that naturally armor tank are rep fit. There a few plated fits, but due to the speed penalty on ships that often rely on their speed...


In other news, YAY INCURSUS! :D

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#42 - 2012-04-23 17:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
That new Incursus looks amazing. +2 lowslots and a rep bonus? Factor in the rig changes and incoming small web drones that thing will be horrible to fight.


Edit: Does this mean the Incursus bonus changes will carry over to the Enyo and the Ishkur?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Callic Veratar
#43 - 2012-04-23 17:34:48 UTC
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Guillome Renard wrote:
I also agree that taking away the Amarrian mining frigate without giving it an alternative, and leaving other races mining frigates intact is especially poor form. The Arbitrator is the Amarr pilot's next mining ship and let's face it, mining drones suck.


This argument is pointless. All mining frigates and cruisers are being rebuilt as combat or logistics ships.


Combat navitas? Epic. Still, a frig like the navitas mines like a beast even compared to cruisers, so what are noobs to do?


They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#44 - 2012-04-23 17:36:11 UTC
Jackie Cross wrote:
I gotta ask.
So the first mining ship for a new pilot to eve will be a Mining barge? Doesn't that feel like a rather large step, and an expensive one, if someone wants to start with mining?
Will you introduce a lower tier mining ship for new players?


Hopefully a mining dessie.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#45 - 2012-04-23 17:36:30 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Guillome Renard wrote:
I also agree that taking away the Amarrian mining frigate without giving it an alternative, and leaving other races mining frigates intact is especially poor form. The Arbitrator is the Amarr pilot's next mining ship and let's face it, mining drones suck.


This argument is pointless. All mining frigates and cruisers are being rebuilt as combat or logistics ships.


Combat navitas? Epic. Still, a frig like the navitas mines like a beast even compared to cruisers, so what are noobs to do?


They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.


That would indeed be best. I'm all in for that.
Ameron Phinard
#46 - 2012-04-23 17:36:34 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:

They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.


Link? I'm curious.
Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
#47 - 2012-04-23 17:36:39 UTC
I like that you're modifying the Merlin, but it needs to be buffed, not nerfed. Merlin wasn't that viable before, and it still won't after these changes (unless I'm missing something).
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#48 - 2012-04-23 17:38:29 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Yeah, because armor rep ships are used so much in PvP.


Well, in frigate combat.. yes. Yes they are. Almost all frigates I've seen that naturally armor tank are rep fit. There a few plated fits, but due to the speed penalty on ships that often rely on their speed...


In other news, YAY INCURSUS! :D


All you have to do is time your shots in your frig, and armor rep frigs usually die. However, +2 low slots on the incursus? It's the new rifter.
Kalaratiri
Unitas Nusquam Est
VINDICTIVE
#49 - 2012-04-23 17:40:58 UTC
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Yeah, because armor rep ships are used so much in PvP.


Well, in frigate combat.. yes. Yes they are. Almost all frigates I've seen that naturally armor tank are rep fit. There a few plated fits, but due to the speed penalty on ships that often rely on their speed...


In other news, YAY INCURSUS! :D


All you have to do is time your shots in your frig, and armor rep frigs usually die. However, +2 low slots on the incursus? It's the new rifter.


Oh, almost all active tanked frigs will die just as easily as a plated one to some ships. But in a 1v1 (that mythical ideal of rifter pilots everywhere) the ability to regenerate health is enough to get you the win often enough. And you may well be right, the rifter is going to have quite a lot of trouble with the incursus. It does still have it's utility high for a neut I guess..

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#50 - 2012-04-23 17:50:32 UTC
BTW, I want to strongly encourage you to consider how powerful a utility high is on a frigate. A nos is just about the only way that you can keep your guns running under the inevitable neut spam. If its at all possible, I fit a nos to every close range frigate I fly. These close range brawling frigates that require capacitor don't have room for a nos....

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#51 - 2012-04-23 17:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Liang Nuren wrote:
BTW, I want to strongly encourage you to consider how powerful a utility high is on a frigate. A nos is just about the only way that you can keep your guns running under the inevitable neut spam. If its at all possible, I fit a nos to every close range frigate I fly. These close range brawling frigates that require capacitor don't have room for a nos....

-Liang


The Incursus can get away with a cap booster in its fit. Not quite sure how the punisher will do though.

Edit: Forgot the Punisher has the utility high.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#52 - 2012-04-23 17:56:39 UTC
Commander Slavin wrote:
MERLIN:

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 39

Please no.

Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.

Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?


Pretty much this.

Im a turret focused player and do not mind the slot changes (i did at first but im already playing with numbers on paper and am enjoying what I see), but the removal of the resistance bonus, just leaves me scratching my head. Its survivability is half of what makes the Merlin such a fun bugger to fly.

Ask the 40 guys who flew them during a single FFA brawl in RVB over the weekend. They wouldnt have done had it been just another gun platform.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#53 - 2012-04-23 17:58:12 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
BTW, I want to strongly encourage you to consider how powerful a utility high is on a frigate. A nos is just about the only way that you can keep your guns running under the inevitable neut spam. If its at all possible, I fit a nos to every close range frigate I fly. These close range brawling frigates that require capacitor don't have room for a nos....

-Liang


The Incursus can get away with a cap booster in its fit. Not quite sure how the punisher will do though.


I dunno dude, look at that pathetic capacitor size on an active tanked ship with guns that take cap. I'll undoubtedly end up fitting a a cap booster, but I tend to do that anyway. It still isn't enough - the nos really is "required". Its not like I'm talking out my ass about frigate combat here - feel free to go hunt up my videos.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Kalaratiri
Unitas Nusquam Est
VINDICTIVE
#54 - 2012-04-23 18:03:19 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello folks,

We want to start with Tech 1 frigates, then move our way up as time passes, which means:

  • There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
  • Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare them with



And Cruisers?

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Callic Veratar
#55 - 2012-04-23 18:06:03 UTC
Ameron Phinard wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:

They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.


Link? I'm curious.


http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve-online/interviews/ccp-soundwave/inferno-part-two

Right at the beginning of the video.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#56 - 2012-04-23 18:07:37 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
BTW, I want to strongly encourage you to consider how powerful a utility high is on a frigate. A nos is just about the only way that you can keep your guns running under the inevitable neut spam. If its at all possible, I fit a nos to every close range frigate I fly. These close range brawling frigates that require capacitor don't have room for a nos....

-Liang


The Incursus can get away with a cap booster in its fit. Not quite sure how the punisher will do though.


I dunno dude, look at that pathetic capacitor size on an active tanked ship with guns that take cap. I'll undoubtedly end up fitting a a cap booster, but I tend to do that anyway. It still isn't enough - the nos really is "required". Its not like I'm talking out my ass about frigate combat here - feel free to go hunt up my videos.

-Liang


I don't doubt your capabilities. Not sure looking at it on paper but it seems to have no other real weaknesses other than neut vulnerability, that said is it such a bad thing?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#57 - 2012-04-23 18:09:02 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello folks,

We want to start with Tech 1 frigates, then move our way up as time passes, which means:

  • There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
  • Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare them with



And Cruisers?


You totally stole my line there -.-

That said, Cruiser love first too right?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Brunaburh
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#58 - 2012-04-23 18:14:29 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello folks,

As mentioned in the ship balancing Dev Blog, Inferno will be the starting point for a much needed ship overhaul. This post is to discuss planned changes for frigates before we move forward with Singularity testing.


We want to start with Tech 1 frigates, then move our way up as time passes, which means:

In this topic we will focus on Combat frigate rebalancing, which affects:

  • Merlin: overhauled role to fit medium-long range turret platform



Exact changes below (without skills):


MERLIN:

  • New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
  • Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
  • Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
  • Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
  • Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
  • Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
  • Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
  • Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
  • Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
  • Signature radius: 39


That's all for now, constructive comments are welcome Blink


Merlin should keep it's split weapons system and current bonuses. Why does the rifter become the only split weapon platform in this new class of frigates?
Callic Veratar
#59 - 2012-04-23 18:21:57 UTC
The unfortunate side effect of Tiericide is that all ships will be changed somewhat (except those functioning optimally like the Rifter). That being said, I'm not sure the Merlin as a Combat line ship should be set up as an artillery style frigate

With these changes, it's set in the role of parking 40-50km off grid and shooting with rails which isn't what I'd consider a brawly combaty ship like the other 4. I would argue taking the ship in one of two direction to maintain it in the Combat group

1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists
2) Keep the 3 hybrid but drop the optimal boost for shield resists

As it stands, though, it may make for a decent null blaster platform.
Kalaratiri
Unitas Nusquam Est
VINDICTIVE
#60 - 2012-04-23 18:25:43 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:

1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists


This is a hookbill with a tank bonus. We really don't need that.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim