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EVE Fiction

 
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Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

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Author
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#21 - 2012-04-17 11:20:12 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
We have to imagine capsuleer payouts to crew as substantial, not to mention insurance policies to the families of deceased crews. There's more than enough money involved for ships to be constantly crewed by willing individuals.


We shouldn't have to imagine, but we are forced to.

It still doesn't cover off the billions of lives wiped out every single day, and the lack of populace required to refill these ships - it's completely disproportionate.

I think the resolution is EVE Fiction>EVE.

Whatever doesn't work due to what we know about ingame antics conflicting with logical reasoning when writing fiction, just ignore it and write it regardless.

I appreciate this conflicts with comments I've made before, but that's me: a walking, talking contradiction.

Treat them as two seperate entities, because ultimately the story of the game [players] is covered in the Role Play section of the forums. This section of the forum deals with extraps and blends for the purposes of telling a story, not to cover in-game actions and interpretations using in-game characters. Nor is it a technological/historical reference manual [thank god] as that is covered in the eve-o-pedia.

This is fiction - write what you want, and tell your story.

AK

This space for rent.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-04-17 13:40:33 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

Where are these people coming from? Who hires them? Why would they be anywhere near an employment office for ship crews? It's got to be eventual death for anyone who signs up for it. Surely there are more jobs available for 'space station janitor' or plan old 'concord regional office administrator 3rd grade' not to mention the enormous amounts of Veldspar that needs loading and unloading at the space docks on stations.

AK


They sign up because they can make more aboard a ship on a short tour than they can the rest of their natural lives at regular salaries.

History has no shortage of people willing to risk life and limb just at the mere possibility of becoming wealthy.

We have to imagine capsuleer payouts to crew as substantial, not to mention insurance policies to the families of deceased crews. There's more than enough money involved for ships to be constantly crewed by willing individuals.


That's the most plausible explanation I've heard yet. Thanks, that helps reconcile the ship's crew thing. I always considered it a hole in the rationality of the New Eden world.
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#23 - 2012-04-17 17:47:35 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^


I can see two 'fun' endings:

After a series of trials and tribulations the Matari crew is eventually saved by a fellow Matari pod-pilot showing up to take over the pilot-less ship or,

They get -verrry- close to pulling it off but we get a depressing ending with the Amarrian spacing everyone at the end.

Good read either way :)

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#24 - 2012-04-17 18:13:47 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^


I can see two 'fun' endings:

After a series of trials and tribulations the Matari crew is eventually saved by a fellow Matari pod-pilot showing up to take over the pilot-less ship or,

They get -verrry- close to pulling it off but we get a depressing ending with the Amarrian spacing everyone at the end.

Good read either way :)



I keep wanting to write a story like that. It is because I hate hope and light and life and puppies.
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#25 - 2012-04-17 20:19:49 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^


I can see two 'fun' endings:

After a series of trials and tribulations the Matari crew is eventually saved by a fellow Matari pod-pilot showing up to take over the pilot-less ship or,

They get -verrry- close to pulling it off but we get a depressing ending with the Amarrian spacing everyone at the end.

Good read either way :)



I keep wanting to write a story like that. It is because I hate hope and light and life and puppies.


Consider this one on my list of to-dos

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#26 - 2012-04-17 20:50:35 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:


Consider this one on my list of to-dos



Make sure it follows a very standard, traditional heroes journey; Even have the hero succeed! Hoorah!

And then he gets hit by a falling rock or something, and because he wasn't there to cement his victory, all he accomplished was wiped out.

Fade to black.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#27 - 2012-04-17 21:44:19 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:

We shouldn't have to imagine, but we are forced to.

It still doesn't cover off the billions of lives wiped out every single day, and the lack of populace required to refill these ships - it's completely disproportionate.

I think the resolution is EVE Fiction>EVE.

*snip*

This is fiction - write what you want, and tell your story.

AK


Remind me never to DM a session with you as a player. In any game.

As soon as you allow yourself to bend the established lore to better suit your story, you destroy the framework for everyone else.

This is the story of New Eden. You are a character in that story, but you are not the protagonist. No one can be in a multiplayer environment, and people who try to be end up ignored.

You can write anything you wish, but if it breaks established lore, I'm not going to read it.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-04-17 22:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^

Crew member 1: OK, we’re set. When we reach Otelen, we immediately disable the warp drive and eject the captain's pod. Our capsuleer will be waiting in his pod at the gate. We have less than two minutes to get his pod onboard, locked in, and the ship underway again. It’s now or never, we’ll never have this chance again.

Crew member 2: Understood. We’ll probably die, yes. But if we can get the Zealot to the Republic… freedom, fame, and wealth for each of us for life. And for our families for 10 generations!

Captain [on intercom]: Attention, slave crew. Today is the fourth anniversary of my graduation from the academy. In commemoration, we’ll be leaving the Zealot in the hangar and making the trip in "Tattooed Vixen," my old Impairor rookie ship. Enjoy!

Crew members: QuestionQuestion...ShockedShocked...CryCry
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#29 - 2012-04-17 23:23:54 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^

Crew member 1: OK, we’re set. When we reach Otelen, we immediately disable the warp drive and eject the captain's pod. Our capsuleer will be waiting in his pod at the gate. We have less than two minutes to get his pod onboard, locked in, and the ship underway again. It’s now or never, we’ll never have this chance again.

Crew member 2: Understood. We’ll probably die, yes. But if we can get the Zealot to the Republic… freedom, fame, and wealth for each of us for life. And for our families for 10 generations!

Captain [on intercom]: Attention, slave crew. Today is the fourth anniversary of my graduation from the academy. In commemoration, we’ll be leaving the Zealot in the hangar and making the trip in "Tattooed Vixen," my old Impairor rookie ship. Enjoy!

Crew members: QuestionQuestion...ShockedShocked...CryCry


I laughed my ass off with the "Enjoy"

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#30 - 2012-04-18 11:01:15 UTC
Esan Vartesa wrote:


Remind me never to DM a session with you as a player. In any game.

As soon as you allow yourself to bend the established lore to better suit your story, you destroy the framework for everyone else.

This is the story of New Eden. You are a character in that story, but you are not the protagonist. No one can be in a multiplayer environment, and people who try to be end up ignored.

You can write anything you wish, but if it breaks established lore, I'm not going to read it.


Respectfully, I am adverse to that ideal.

Nothing is going to get destroyed, framework included, by bending the lore to better suit a story written by a fan for the purposes of entertaining other fans.

The game will continue regardless of what you write.

There are lines, of course, which is why bending is better than breaking - but you need to realise that keeping such strict constraints on story can impact a writer, and when a writer allows themselves freedom of expression to tell a story, you get a better story.

Like Clear Skies.

Not one mention of a pod, or what a pod is, or the technicalities of piloting a vessel using the mind is explored during this trilogy. In addition to that, the entire crew compliment of the ship consisted of 3 people.

Several years later, here we are and there has been no breakage of framework, yet, Ian Chisholm won an award.

Stories are about characters, nothing more. When you ground characters too much, you break the story as there is nothing left for a character to do but follow an extremely limiting path which conforms.

Love to debate this on eve-voice with you, if you can stomach my insidious voice.

AK

This space for rent.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-04-18 13:59:00 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
Or the capsuleer from just turning off life-support.

Considered writing about a case of minmatar slaves trying to take over the ship of a amarr loyalist. Its why you always take good care of you slaves kids ^_^

Crew member 1: OK, we’re set. When we reach Otelen, we immediately disable the warp drive and eject the captain's pod. Our capsuleer will be waiting in his pod at the gate. We have less than two minutes to get his pod onboard, locked in, and the ship underway again. It’s now or never, we’ll never have this chance again.

Crew member 2: Understood. We’ll probably die, yes. But if we can get the Zealot to the Republic… freedom, fame, and wealth for each of us for life. And for our families for 10 generations!

Captain [on intercom]: Attention, slave crew. Today is the fourth anniversary of my graduation from the academy. In commemoration, we’ll be leaving the Zealot in the hangar and making the trip in "Tattooed Vixen," my old Impairor rookie ship. Enjoy!

Crew members: QuestionQuestion...ShockedShocked...CryCry


I laughed my ass off with the "Enjoy"

Smile Hoping somebody actually does write a good ship crew mutiny/heist story.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#32 - 2012-04-18 14:07:38 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:


Like Clear Skies.


Clear Skies is hilarious, and great entertainment.

But it's a terrible, terrible story. I'd argue that Clear Skies has done more harm to Eve's lore than anything else has.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#33 - 2012-04-18 19:00:01 UTC
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Clear Skies is hilarious, and great entertainment

But it's a terrible, terrible story. I'd argue that Clear Skies has done more harm to Eve's lore than anything else has.

And it would be an interesting argument to have, if that was actually more important than the entertainment itself

It's not a stone tablet passed down from the heavens, and any story based on New Eden is exactly that: based

It's a series of ideas amalgamated together for the purposes of telling 'the big story'. This means the individual segments of the lore proportionally add and subtract depending on which element of the big story you are telling. This is even openly admitted by CCP; that there are contradictions in the Chronicles due to the necessities of telling the other stories.

This is painfully obvious when you read some of the chronicles at a distance and find enormous gaps in logical reasoning - and this is the basis for an entire lore? Something which doesn't make any logical sense? Why is that a good thing, again?

I applaud CCP for creating New Eden and the ideas contained in it, I really do - but don't be so myopic to defend something as blindly as you are when at its core, the lore is not the law, and if you believe it needs defending, then you need to ask why that is.

Just as someone feels the need to come to the forums and ask what should be a relatively simple question about ships and their crews, because the lore is flawed.

Not shooting at you, Esan - just firing all directions on this one.

AK

This space for rent.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#34 - 2012-04-18 22:10:02 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Smile Hoping somebody actually does write a good ship crew mutiny/heist story.

Have you read this one?

All These Lives are Fit to Ruin
Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#35 - 2012-04-19 04:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
I would have to argue that the current "big story" of Eve is still hiding in the enigma that is a cornerstone of it's design..

As such, there is alot of technology and "lore" that is nothing more than mythology and long forgotten atrocity that the average New Edenite has no knowledge of..

Remember, the human race has likely forgotten more information than the sum of it's current whole..

OR maybe it's all been uploaded to a vast repository for easy consumption by an extradimensional cerebral siphon, or something.. Blink

I have often pondered on the smaller details of the lore. Things like just how far did the Jovian Modifiers push their genetic body modding? The techno punk in me can imagine women with six breasts and other more extreme deviations from the human average..Shocked

How far did they get into synthetic structural replacement?? Jovian' are depicted in the literature as almost alien.. I would maintain that even in the present, New Eden is beyond the casual grasp to anyone with a limited imagination..

So, I would have to argue, that realistically, though some might deem it impossible or a "pipe dream", to do so is to limit one's potential for growth and improvement.. That goes for story writing, too..Twisted

Besides, there's always room for another insane pod pilot, they are the norm!Bear

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#36 - 2012-04-19 11:53:24 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
I would have to argue that the current "big story" of Eve is still hiding in the enigma that is a cornerstone of it's design..

As such, there is alot of technology and "lore" that is nothing more than mythology and long forgotten atrocity that the average New Edenite has no knowledge of..

Remember, the human race has likely forgotten more information than the sum of it's current whole..

OR maybe it's all been uploaded to a vast repository for easy consumption by an extradimensional cerebral siphon, or something.. Blink

I have often pondered on the smaller details of the lore. Things like just how far did the Jovian Modifiers push their genetic body modding? The techno punk in me can imagine women with six breasts and other more extreme deviations from the human average..Shocked

How far did they get into synthetic structural replacement?? Jovian' are depicted in the literature as almost alien.. I would maintain that even in the present, New Eden is beyond the casual grasp to anyone with a limited imagination..

So, I would have to argue, that realistically, though some might deem it impossible or a "pipe dream", to do so is to limit one's potential for growth and improvement.. That goes for story writing, too..Twisted

Besides, there's always room for another insane pod pilot, they are the norm!Bear


One of the biggest holes in the lore is the Origin. Specifically; the fact that the same day the wormhole to the milkyway collapsed, there were absolutely no remaining space ships flying about in New Eden.

If always found that completely implausible, that not even your Average Joe hauling stuff between solar systems in New Eden survived, that the ENTIRE space traffic magically dissappeared, or, was suspiciously on the other side of the wormhole - even though 'thousands followed in their footsteps' to go to New Eden.

When you really analyse it, you come to the obviousness of what the lore really is.

As for teh Jovians...we all got theories on those guys, but we all know they were designed to function as Avatars for devs - which was changed in 2006/7 and now are nothing more than carrots on the end of a stick, whilst CCP are riding us.

In some instances I swear they are used for solving contradictory plotholes. 'It was the Jovians!' '...they went to Jovian Space, and we never saw them again...' '...he couldn't find his keys, but DNA analysis of his apartment suggested that Jovians had visited him during the night...and also took his record collection of Whale songs, possibly for harmonic studies...' CCP themselves class them as a 'mysterious race' and by that rational, they can use them for anything they want - except actual game content, sadly.

AK

This space for rent.

Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#37 - 2012-04-19 13:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
The Rogue Drones as presented in the Dust chrons provide a plausible reason for there to be "not much" physical evidence of the past. Thousands of years (if the hints that they are of ancient design pan out) of those little buggers running amok through the ruins of past civilizations and they wouldn't leave much that was telling, just scraps.. Planetside or in space..

As to population, New Eden must be a very crowded place. If "official" stats contradict this, then maybe it needs a retcon, because, one would have to assume an obscenely large population, especially in the "civilized" portion of the cluster..

Perhaps the Jovians Roll "thinned" the Rogue Done herd at some point and they became scarce, much like we in the United States thin deer populations when they become bothersome..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#38 - 2012-04-19 14:09:07 UTC
There were plenty of spaceships left functioning after the original Eve gate collapse, but the entirety of the fledgling settlements were completely cut off from supplies back in our part of the galaxy.

So you had a few hundred extremely fledgling colonies that were not self-sufficient, with no more supplies, limited spare parts to fix spaceships, no manufacturing facilities, barely-functioning terraforming, etc.

Think if you were on an expedition to the south pole, but were getting regular drop offs of supplies, and then the supplies were suddenly cut. You still have all your fancy equipment but things will eventually break down without an advanced manufacturing base to resupply.

If your ipod breaks now, you go buy another one. If the Apple factory is suddenly a million lightyears away, you've only got one ipod, and then fast forward a few thousand years. It won't be working.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#39 - 2012-04-19 14:17:06 UTC
The exception being the Jove, who it seems retained much of their technology and were able to 'recover' without reverting back to mad-max style chaos on the planets.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#40 - 2012-04-20 00:59:47 UTC
I would like to point out a major oversight on my part, and it does change a lot of what i was arguing earlier.

When I was discussing the number of people killed by your typical, mission running, capsuleer, I forgot to consider a very important probability....

Ships have escape pods!

So the next time I'm popping a Battleship, I'm most likely not killing thousands of its crew. Most of the crew had most lekely abandoned ship once the hull began to go below 80%.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it