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Discussion thread about WiS

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Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#341 - 2012-06-26 00:36:41 UTC
Serpensor wrote:
I'm going to start throwing out random ideas for things to do in WiS just to see what sticks. Here is my first idea:

1. Make it so that Avatars in EVE could be in the same lobby that the DUST players will be going before a match?


this wont happen but we do live in the same stations so once the door open will prbly be mingling with the mercs
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#342 - 2012-06-26 01:06:59 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:
Do you guys think we will really ever see a fully implemented WiS expansion? I mean, I would like to see it, but I'm not so optimistic. Straight


Sure, in 2017 when Team Avatar, still being the only team working on WIS stuff, is finally able to finish Incarna.

And it'll be another fail because graphics will be 6 years old...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#343 - 2012-06-26 01:12:04 UTC
But thanks for a recent clothes, of course.

Finally got my chars dressed up very nice.

But why there is not all of the items? For example the boots i mentioned earlier. Ok, 4 suits are FW LP shop, but there is others...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Flamespar
WarRavens
#344 - 2012-06-26 06:31:15 UTC
Enable multiplayer establishments as a beta feature using existing art assets.

And give me slay .. I must haz it.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#345 - 2012-06-26 06:38:04 UTC
Lost True wrote:
But thanks for a recent clothes, of course.

Finally got my chars dressed up very nice.

But why there is not all of the items? For example the boots i mentioned earlier. Ok, 4 suits are FW LP shop, but there is others...


Wondering the same... we got 13 new items at the NEx store, which now looks more like a garage sale than a shop as the available items barely match each other and make quite a poor range of options. I wonder where is everything else, wether they've handed out all clothes to people who play the game for pew-pew, or just are holding them altogether.

What is completely for sure is that, out of a list of 31 items i had pre-selected at Sisi, only 2 are available at the Nex Store. So I feel like a winner today.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#346 - 2012-06-26 11:47:07 UTC
1) thanks for new clothing! Purchased almost everything.

2) full body shots as +1 type of character thumbnail - there is already full body preview window in the game.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#347 - 2012-06-26 17:47:14 UTC
Lost True wrote:
But thanks for a recent clothes, of course.

Finally got my chars dressed up very nice.

But why there is not all of the items? For example the boots i mentioned earlier. Ok, 4 suits are FW LP shop, but there is others...


I didn't find anything in the gal FW LP store...Do you have to be in the militia to see them?
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#348 - 2012-06-27 01:00:01 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Lost True wrote:
But thanks for a recent clothes, of course.

Finally got my chars dressed up very nice.

But why there is not all of the items? For example the boots i mentioned earlier. Ok, 4 suits are FW LP shop, but there is others...


I didn't find anything in the gal FW LP store...Do you have to be in the militia to see them?

Well, it's was in dev blog. I didn't looked...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2012-06-27 08:25:26 UTC
Just having mini games in a room or something like that alone would be quite disappointing form of WiS honestly. Now if they had that + some form of WiS exploration in abandoned stations : pirate faction ones maybe .. or sleepers .. or introduce "stealthed Jove outposts" which have only recently been found to exist due to a major breakthrough in scannin technology =)

Obviously the movement system would have to be way better than it is now. It's a bit clunky to walk about in CQ, I don't see how it could possibly be used to explore (and maybe FPS fight) in these abandoned stations without getting stuck on every bit of furniture.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#350 - 2012-06-27 15:19:45 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Just having mini games in a room or something like that alone would be quite disappointing form of WiS honestly. Now if they had that + some form of WiS exploration in abandoned stations : pirate faction ones maybe .. or sleepers .. or introduce "stealthed Jove outposts" which have only recently been found to exist due to a major breakthrough in scannin technology =)

Obviously the movement system would have to be way better than it is now. It's a bit clunky to walk about in CQ, I don't see how it could possibly be used to explore (and maybe FPS fight) in these abandoned stations without getting stuck on every bit of furniture.



the only thing that,s missing in moving is a little more speed ,try to hold down both mouse buttons ,the avatar walks and follows the mouse movement on screen

R.S.I2014
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2012-06-28 16:37:12 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220 <-- CCP torfifrans showing off WiS prototype

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1550880#post1550880 <-- WiS thread in GD with some new info 
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#352 - 2012-06-29 05:32:27 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220 <-- CCP torfifrans showing off WiS prototype

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1550880#post1550880 <-- WiS thread in GD with some new info

А русским-то раньше показали :)

Interesting.
So they're not forgot about WiS, they're refocused it.

Well, it's a good thing, of course. After all, the most growing features of this game is the features of combat, and there will be combat.

But i really, really hope that there will be a good social interaction and other things which i can do without waching my steps.

FiS have almost NO activities which i can do just because i like it. I want to play something, not DOING something, like fatm rats, scanning for carebears, or hacking in WH. I have ISK, thank you, and i have money for PLEXes if there will be a need in ISK.
So it's sad that it's not enoug interesting to just fly a beatiful ship, observe a space, listen to the music... There is too little content for that. Although i'm doing that.

Of course, there is a lot of ppl which will think that is redicilous - playng eve and doing nothing? even not carebearing?

Now i'm helping my buddy to learn this game. I'm flying on LVL-3 with him on my assault ship and the same BC as he is, but with speed tank. Just because i like it. I can fly every ship in game. But i know that it's temporarily, after a few months he'll be good at this game, and do that PvP and PvE crap, and i will return to my RL things, dreaming about WiS and flying sometimes...

Well, as i said, i really looking forward to WiS because maybe it'll be not the same as FiS. Of course. there should be work for those who can't help themselfs, but i hope that CCP will use that chance to make it's more deep from the beginning. It's nor so hard from the beginning. But for FiS now it's almost impossible.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#353 - 2012-06-29 07:02:45 UTC
Hi guys, just showing my face to say good-bye.

With the recent events and Team avatar's news on the WiS prototyping, along with the extintion of the secondary actions that kept me playing EVE without touching its "chore" features, I am going to take a long break from EVE (long until I miss redoing portraits, mining, or running missions).

I think that Team Avatar's intent to turn WiS into 3rd person shooter style dungeon raiding with friendly fire on in nullsec is silly beyond words, but, it just is fair that they try to justify their existence in the way they see fit, even if that means ignoring WiS wishers.

I've been vocal enough about how The Same Old Crap is not going to ensure EVE's long term survival, also have explained the reasons why, and i have done what was in my feeble hands to ensure that WiS would open the door to new gameplay styles that could atract a wider specturm of subscribers.

Now we ended up with a proposal of WiS implementing the same content every theme park MMO uses as endgame (dungeon raiding) in a style oversaturated with games (shooters) and with EVE's gift to all Leroyjenkinsers in the world (permadeath of player gear and last man standing takes all).

I think that CCP just lost the knack to get things right. They're struggling to stay rather than gp further, and that never ends pretty.

But, enough doom & gloom. WiS still haves a huge potential to add different gameplay that is not TSOC. I still think that this is exactly what WiS should be about; not what EVE palyers like and do now, but what 10x more people would like and do if EVE opened the door and invited them.

Social gameplay is the mother of emergent gameplay. Give people tools and they will craft wonders.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#354 - 2012-06-29 11:48:03 UTC
Hey, hey now...

The prototype was in an "exploration" type area. Nothing says the stations will be like that.

Besides, this early, who knows what the final version will look like.

Occasionally plays sober
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#355 - 2012-06-29 15:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
I agree with both of you, aping every MMO out there does not and will not guarantee success - dozens of failed wow clones can attest to that.
WiS has amazing potential and we've seen some of it come to life already in the old demo videos, and I really like the idea of undercover missions / social aspects that was pitched as some of the ways making ambulation relevant in game back in 2009 or so. What happened to all of that? The promenades? The establishments? Did all of that work just vanish in to thin air?
I suppose all we can do is wait and see, and try to affect the bigwigs in the meantime.


Edit. I'm just going to throw this in here completely irrelevant to the rest of my post, as it came to my mind watching another thread unfold - why stop at establisments? Why not let capsuleers take over station services like repairshop, reprocessing or create completely new services? Like, some stations don't have repairshops - but they could get one provided a player sets one up? They could need resources like robotics, bio-batteries etc to function but in turn could generate revenue for the capsuleer that owns them as they could set the price of the services. Laziness is an amazing resource in eve, people are willing to spend fair amount of extra isk for not having to travel a few jumps away.
Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#356 - 2012-06-29 16:12:38 UTC
Dex Tera wrote:
Serpensor wrote:
I'm going to start throwing out random ideas for things to do in WiS just to see what sticks. Here is my first idea:

1. Make it so that Avatars in EVE could be in the same lobby that the DUST players will be going before a match?


this wont happen but we do live in the same stations so once the door open will prbly be mingling with the mercs


Hell, I don't mind if we don't interract with them as long as we can stroll up and bang on the glass.. :)

SM.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#357 - 2012-06-29 16:19:12 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
I agree with both of you, aping every MMO out there does not and will not guarantee success - dozens of failed wow clones can attest to that.
WiS has amazing potential and we've seen some of it come to life already in the old demo videos, and I really like the idea of undercover missions / social aspects that was pitched as some of the ways making ambulation relevant in game back in 2009 or so. What happened to all of that? The promenades? The establishments? Did all of that work just vanish in to thin air?
I suppose all we can do is wait and see, and try to affect the bigwigs in the meantime.


Edit. I'm just going to throw this in here completely irrelevant to the rest of my post, as it came to my mind watching another thread unfold - why stop at establisments? Why not let capsuleers take over station services like repairshop, reprocessing or create completely new services? Like, some stations don't have repairshops - but they could get one provided a player sets one up? They could need resources like robotics, bio-batteries etc to function but in turn could generate revenue for the capsuleer that owns them as they could set the price of the services. Laziness is an amazing resource in eve, people are willing to spend fair amount of extra isk for not having to travel a few jumps away.



In short, yes, it did vanish. From the other thread the devs said it was prototype stuff that didn't scale well and was scrapped when they returned to WIS after apocraphya.
Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#358 - 2012-06-29 16:38:22 UTC
As posted in another thread....


I agree with the concept that certain features and facilities can be handed over from purely NPC driven to player owned and managed in a WiS environment.

For instance,

Repair facilities in a station could be run by multiple vendors. Each player could set a price per point of Armour and point of structure (plus similar for modules) and the profitability of this would be dependant on the cost of any raw materials required (trit, isogen, mex etc), ship repair tools (which could be generated by PI) plus any relevant BPC's and/or ship building skills.

I.e. if my Avatar has Caldari ship construction 5 then they could build and repair anything up to and including Caldari BS's. For Capital ship repair I would need cap ship construction etc. I'd need to get amarr ship construction skills if my corpmate brings in an Abaddon etc...

From the pilots perspective, they would just either use the NPC or the PC repair facility instantaneously as per normal but the isk would go to the PC if they undercut the standard price. Or they could select a specific repair facility (Corp or player) if they wanted for instance to keep the money for the repairs "in house" within the corp...

Result:-

Cheaper ship repairs for the pilots, competition based on multiple factors (i.e. what ships you can repair, how many consumable repair comoddities your shop has available plus the cost of those to make, the price point for all armour and structure points plus those for fittings you have set, maybe even a skill that dictates how many ships per hour you can repair) an further markets opened up for the players to exploit.

For the FiS'ers, there is no difference as they will be given the best price possible for repairs and can shop around if needs be. if no PC's have setup shop in the station or none are cheaper than the NPC repair costs then they still pay no more than they would have before.

Hell, in a time of war, the players owning the outpost could zero any costs to help with the war effort...

SM.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#359 - 2012-06-29 18:22:37 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Hi guys, just showing my face to say good-bye.

With the recent events and Team avatar's news on the WiS prototyping, along with the extintion of the secondary actions that kept me playing EVE without touching its "chore" features, I am going to take a long break from EVE (long until I miss redoing portraits, mining, or running missions).

I think that Team Avatar's intent to turn WiS into 3rd person shooter style dungeon raiding with friendly fire on in nullsec is silly beyond words, but, it just is fair that they try to justify their existence in the way they see fit, even if that means ignoring WiS wishers.

I've been vocal enough about how The Same Old Crap is not going to ensure EVE's long term survival, also have explained the reasons why, and i have done what was in my feeble hands to ensure that WiS would open the door to new gameplay styles that could atract a wider specturm of subscribers.

Now we ended up with a proposal of WiS implementing the same content every theme park MMO uses as endgame (dungeon raiding) in a style oversaturated with games (shooters) and with EVE's gift to all Leroyjenkinsers in the world (permadeath of player gear and last man standing takes all).

I think that CCP just lost the knack to get things right. They're struggling to stay rather than gp further, and that never ends pretty.

But, enough doom & gloom. WiS still haves a huge potential to add different gameplay that is not TSOC. I still think that this is exactly what WiS should be about; not what EVE palyers like and do now, but what 10x more people would like and do if EVE opened the door and invited them.

Social gameplay is the mother of emergent gameplay. Give people tools and they will craft wonders.

Guys, features with actual entertainment value in them is just copying those other games which have fun and interesting things to do! CCP need to innovate by providing gameplay vacuums where our subscription money enables us to stand in an empty room and admire each other's monocle collections!

(get out, nobody will miss you)

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#360 - 2012-06-29 21:01:07 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
(...)


Edit. I'm just going to throw this in here completely irrelevant to the rest of my post, as it came to my mind watching another thread unfold - why stop at establisments? Why not let capsuleers take over station services like repairshop, reprocessing or create completely new services? Like, some stations don't have repairshops - but they could get one provided a player sets one up? They could need resources like robotics, bio-batteries etc to function but in turn could generate revenue for the capsuleer that owns them as they could set the price of the services. Laziness is an amazing resource in eve, people are willing to spend fair amount of extra isk for not having to travel a few jumps away.


Doh, Indahmawar was gone a tad earlier than i thought... but, onto the topic.

That idea about providing services instead of NPCs just looks intriguing. It's a concept I've been tinkering around for other matters not related to EVE, and would open the door for the kind of creative content EVE needs so desperately. EVE as a game is bound upon destroy everything, everywhere, evrytime, and to some people tha'ts not fun. Destruction only is fun when you're destroying the destroyers and shrinking destruction through it. The fun is in being an "inglourius basterd", not a SS.

And, why destroy the destroyers? Well, it must be done so the builders can build, while the whole universe conspires to destroy.

It just made much sense that human avatars were used for human tasks, rather than just become weapons/bullseyes on foot.

But then EVE is not about things making sense. Hell, why did i customize my character? Obviously because i dream of seeing her bleeding and collapsed into a heap of lifeless flesh in some godforsaken corridor in nullsec. Silly me, I just didn't noticed it. It's not as if I just got sick tired of slaying NPCs in Age of Conan, it's not as if after 20+ bloody years playing video games i knew what i do like to do and what i do not like to do.

Yes, it's so good Team Avatar iluminated and showed us their prototyping of 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding. Until then I was thinking that WiS could be something that EVE was missing so badly, but now it is clear that even in the best scenario it will take a lot of effort and devotion to turn EVE's avatars into protagonists of a B series ScFi clone of every last shooter since Wolfenstein 3D.

Not with my money, though.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you