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CCP where's the Wormhole NERFS WHY ARE THEY GETTING OFF SCOT FREE?? BURN EVE RYONE equally

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Author
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#281 - 2012-04-30 11:29:34 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
You talking to me about statisics?!?!? lol You've never ever shown one xcept crude outta your arse


DarthNefarius wrote:
Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are).

This is kind of the point, you've clearly never run wormholes, yet have chosen to comment on them. The number of people running wormhole sites is not <= the number of people living in them.

People scan down sites in high sec, jump in and run c1/c2 wormholes in their drakes or overpriced tengus. Similarly, people scan down C3s in low sec and do the same, a lot of major null sec alliances scan down c5/c6 whs and have entire capital ops where they jump in and clear capital escalation sites. In fact recently I think -A- took over a few WH systems for this very purpose.

None of these people live in wormholes, they live in high sec, low sec and null sec, yet they likely contribute just as much to the total amount of blue loot farmed as any WH dweller. And this is why your stats are completely useless, because the number of people living in wormholes, which is hard to calculate accurately anyway, is not even remotely related to the number of people raiding wormholes for PvE content.

DarthNefarius wrote:
If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

If you're talking about the graph showing the number of incursions runners that is fairly useless for your purposes for the reason stated above. But, assuming it was useful, that looks like ~17,000 people running incursions, right?

How many active subscribers does Eve online have? >400,000 as of last month? And 5.4% of them are in wormholes?

400,000 x 0.054 = 21,600

So there are 4,000 more people "living" in wormholes, than there are running incursions? Oh wow, and people raid WHs on top of that?

Now GTFO Darth and never try and use statistics to support your terrible ideas again.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#282 - 2012-05-01 04:35:47 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
... Guess if CCP did do any changes to WH's it would be like WORMHOLE stabilizers then peeps there would really scream about CCP shaking up the ant farmAttentionLolEvilTwisted


Only if you were in a high position at CCP stuffing up the game sure.
Even then I'd think CCP with all their mistakes would notice how bad an idea Wormhole stabilizers would be.

Please go back to getting kicked from Incursion fleets and dying to the rats, we really don't need more crappy suggestions on these forums.

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Kassandra Thiesant
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#283 - 2012-05-04 06:11:44 UTC
I agree with this thread. Wormholes need higher payout.

I've been in WH space a little bit and I get chased out by people constantly trying to drop on me and kill me.

It's hard to make money in WH space when this sort of stuff is happening.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#284 - 2012-05-08 18:28:20 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Derth Ramir wrote:



Blue loot is a ISK FOUNTAIN that injects as much ISK into the EVE economy as incursions do on a monthly basis
Between 8-10 trillion ISK 1/3 or less of what bounties inject. Difference between Incursions & sleeper income: sleeper income also on top of that gives ribbon salvage which DWARF'S incursion incomeAttention ( no appreciable salvage in incursions )



You're exagerating. Blue loot isn't really worth that much considering all the costs associated with aquiring it and the number of players it gets spread around to in most cases.

.


-I am not exagerating. Blue loot is a bigger ISK injector then Incursion payouts.

-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#285 - 2012-05-08 18:56:44 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


-I am not exagerating. Blue loot is a bigger ISK injector then Incursion payouts.

-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.

I love your raging all over the forum.

all CCP did is putting incursion into its right place. stop blaming them
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2012-05-08 19:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Takseen
DarthNefarius wrote:


-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.


>Mass migration
>Wormhole space

I wouldn't count on it, mate.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2012-05-08 19:12:33 UTC
Takseen wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.


>Mass migration
>Wormhole space

I wouldn't count on it, mate.



it would be nice though its fun to harass people that come into our wormhole

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.

Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
#288 - 2012-05-08 19:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Letrange
DarthNefarius wrote:
Digital Messiah wrote:
1. they are not a faucet, because they do not bring in more isk as a number they simply use what is already floating around.

.



bull crap SLEEPER BLUE LOOT is a ISK faucet pure & simple because it injects ISK into Eve through NPC buy orders!


As much as I hate to agree with a whiny butt hurt incursion pilot - he's right they are a semi-pure faucet. (semi-pure since they can be destroyed en route). Mainly because they have no other use than to turn into NPCs for iskies. Incidentally I'm not against removing them from wormhole drops per see, but you'd see a large reduction in wormhole population rather quickly as the only reason to then live in wormhole space would be sleeper salvage and mining gas clouds. And I thought incursion pilots didn't like to mine?

I think the net effect of such a move would be to send melted nanoribbon prices thru the roof. Which would seriously increase the price of Tech 3 ships.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2012-05-08 19:55:18 UTC
Everything that creats ISK in the game is an ISK faucet. Mining is an ISK faucet. Salvaging. ISK faucet. Ratting is an ISK faucet...

Sleeper loot is also an ISK faucet. WH's aren't getting nerfed because...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! The risk vs. reward in WH space is balanced.

And no...WH sleeper loot does not generate more ISK than Incursions. CCP has already stated this. Stop trying to say otherwise. Just because you keep saying it does not make it any more true.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#290 - 2012-05-08 23:18:08 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Everything that creats ISK in the game is an ISK faucet. Mining is an ISK faucet. Salvaging. ISK faucet. Ratting is an ISK faucet...

Sleeper loot is also an ISK faucet. WH's aren't getting nerfed because...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! The risk vs. reward in WH space is balanced.

And no...WH sleeper loot does not generate more ISK than Incursions. CCP has already stated this. Stop trying to say otherwise. Just because you keep saying it does not make it any more true.



Roll Everything is not an ISK faucet... there are also materials faucets that create wealth too yes but unlike the ISK faucets the materials are getting destroyed in large numbers threw the mineral sink known as ship destruction. The ISK sinks are hugely dwarfed in the game by the materials sinks.

Roll CCP has stated that more ISK is generated by the WH NPC sleeper buy orders then incursion. Here is a breakdown by a CSM o a stat for a single month provided by CCP Diagoras:
Tuesday, March 13, 2012It's the economy, stupid
So I started wondering a bit about the state of the economy in EVE right now. There were some posts on FHC musing about the amount of ISK flowing into the economy right now, and since CCP Diagoras was kind enough to tweet a bunch of stats, I decided to do some math and add it all up. Here it is:

Item Source/Sink Monthly Amount
Wormhole blue books Source $10,430,000,000,000
Incursions Rewards Source $8,566,015,400,900
Mission Rewards Source $2,470,815,985,076
Misson Bonuses Source $2,346,410,541,970
Insurance Payouts Source $3,366,455,121,035
Insurance Costs Sink -$1,618,888,782,680
NPC Bounties Source $32,083,329,999,805
NPC Sell Orders Sink -$13,000,000,000,000
Transaction Taxes* Sink -$2,375,100,000,000
Broker Fees* Sink -$2,607,100,000,000
LP Store* Sink -$6,331,570,000,000
PI Construction* Sink -$627,850,000,000
Clones* Sink -$910,600,000,000
Office Rental* Sink -$488,650,000,000
War Fees* Sink -$149,350,000,000
Repair Bills* Sink -$287,100,000,000
PI NPC Taxes* Sink -$741,820,000,000
Sov Bills* Sink -$809,100,000,000
Contract Brokers Fee* Sink -$301,600,000,000
Contract Sales Tax* Sink -$324,800,000,000








Total
$28,689,498,266,106


Anything with a * is based on a single day for February, everything else is a full month's data from Diagoras.

Since there were 29 days in February this year, this comes out to almost exactly 1 trillion ISK per day entering the economy. Because CCP no longer publishes QENs, we don't have any recent data to compare this to, but in the last published QEN (for the 4th quarter of 2010), the rate was 0.38 trilion ISK per day, or a little over 1/3 of the current rate. Subscriber numbers were lower then, but not by much. The QEN puts the monthly NPC bounty amounts at about 24 trillion ISK, compared to 32 trillion now. This accounts for about 0.27 trillion ISK per day, or about half of the difference. The rest is accounted for by Incursions.

http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#291 - 2012-05-09 00:28:29 UTC
That looks pretty good to me. Wormholes require more effort and risk, so we should get more isk out of it. Nothing to see here. Move along.

No trolling please

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#292 - 2012-05-09 01:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
are you sure some of those numbers weren't from a full year?10 trillion? 8 trillion? I'm pretty certain the fanfest video listed those off as last years annual influx from those sources.

Let me check.

edit.. monthly averages, as suggested. Surprising amount of ISK, but if you look here it isn't exactly out of balance, and look at the bounties which should now be higher as a result of Drone Region nerfs.
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Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-05-09 01:42:36 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Everything that creats ISK in the game is an ISK faucet. Mining is an ISK faucet. Salvaging. ISK faucet. Ratting is an ISK faucet...

Sleeper loot is also an ISK faucet. WH's aren't getting nerfed because...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! The risk vs. reward in WH space is balanced.

And no...WH sleeper loot does not generate more ISK than Incursions. CCP has already stated this. Stop trying to say otherwise. Just because you keep saying it does not make it any more true.

You are wrong about what an isk faucet is, and you are wrong about blue loot $ not exceeding incursions.

Wanna go for the trifecta?

Darth - WH's aren't getting nerfed, because there are more people running WH's in addition to those living in them. Isk is further spread out amongst more people.

Also - it is *more* dangerous in WH's.


If you can't wrap your little head around that - uninstall - that's all i got.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#294 - 2012-05-09 07:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Mars Theran wrote:
are you sure some of those numbers weren't from a full year?10 trillion? 8 trillion? I'm pretty certain the fanfest video listed those off as last years annual influx from those sources.

Let me check.

edit.. monthly averages, as suggested. Surprising amount of ISK, but if you look here it isn't exactly out of balance, and look at the bounties which should now be higher as a result of Drone Region nerfs.


The numbers quoted were not a monthly average for blue loot & Incursion payouts. In the fanfet presentation I recall december was said to be the busiest month for incursion runners. February wasa shortened month. Before farming a month before Incarna came out WH ISK injection dwarfed Incursion payouts& inlation really started in earnest a month before the Incursion sites opened up.
Will be interesting to see how much drone bounties increase ISK injection but I hear ( second hand ) they are not that great.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#295 - 2012-05-09 07:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Apolyon I
DarthNefarius wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
are you sure some of those numbers weren't from a full year?10 trillion? 8 trillion? I'm pretty certain the fanfest video listed those off as last years annual influx from those sources.

Let me check.

edit.. monthly averages, as suggested. Surprising amount of ISK, but if you look here it isn't exactly out of balance, and look at the bounties which should now be higher as a result of Drone Region nerfs.


The numbers quoted were not a monthly average for blue loot & Incursion payouts. In the fanfet presentation I recall december was said to be the busiest month for incursion runners. February wasa shortened month. Before farming a month before Incarna came out WH ISK injection dwarfed Incursion payouts& inlation really started in earnest a month before the Incursion sites opened up.
Will be interesting to see how much drone bounties increase ISK injection but I hear ( second hand ) they are not that great.

inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable???
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#296 - 2012-05-09 08:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
You Incursion runners have been sucking on the low risk ISK tit a while now and you never expected it to change?

Get real, the change to Incursions is as nothing to the Sanctum nerf that wiped many small Null Alliances out of existence. Vanguards still pay more than lvl 4 missions and the fact that you have to work harder for your ISK is no bad thing.

Just because your little bit of EvE was heavily out of balance in regards to risk vs reward and needed rebalancing does not automatically mean everyone else in the game should suffer.

Grow up, grow a pair and move into a wormhole if you think you can earn more there rather than having an infantile rant all over the forums.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#297 - 2012-05-09 17:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Apolyon I wrote:
quote]
inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable???


Incorrect Inflation started getting worse BEFORE Incursions came out

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/EveInflation_2010-2012.gif
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#298 - 2012-05-09 17:57:32 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Apolyon I wrote:
quote]
inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable???


Incorrect Inflation started getting worse BEFORE Incursions came out

Good thing the incursion nerf was to address the ****** up state of risk/reward, and not as a hotfix to inflation then.

Also, anyone interested in a quick break down of why darth's statistics suck, scroll to top of page. I will be reposting that information periodically as he repeatedly tries to bury it with necro ship toasting.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

MortisLegati
Everything Went Black
#299 - 2012-05-09 17:59:48 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Nerf Jove space too.


Its my understanding Jove space was nerfed when CCP laid off a bunch of co-workers after the Incarna fiasco late last year & WiS & WoD got axed



I can already tell you're not paying attention right here.

Also, people need to learn that ISK Faucet means NPCs adding ISK into the game by giving it to players and an ISK Sink is NPCs taking ISK out of the game by taking it from players. Inter-player trade has nothing to do with sinking or adding ISK to the game. The economy is bigger than you, kthx.

Done with this thread.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#300 - 2012-05-09 18:03:35 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

Also, anyone interested in a quick break down of why darth's statistics suck, scroll to top of page. I will be reposting that information periodically as he repeatedly tries to bury it with necro ship toasting.


I'd start reposting of your statistics but there are not any
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'