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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

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Whitehound
#921 - 2012-04-14 00:30:56 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Fail to disagree ...
More rant ...
The current design of a Hulk allows you to produce much higher yields than any other mining ship. The expense of the hull makes it a popular target for killboard stuffers. As a Hulk pilot, you cannot afford to be complacent. Stop looking at the problem as "CCP needs to fix this" and look at it from the point of view of "what can I do to fix this?"

The reason for why the Hulk can produce much higher yields than any other mining ship is simple. It is the top of its class. However, any pilot should be able to be complacent or else the pilot is a victim. Not being complacent and not being able to be complacent is a definition of a victim. The moment you put yourself into a mining ship do you victimise yourself. It is the reason for most players to avoid mining like hell. But I do have very little hope that this is something you will be able to understand.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#922 - 2012-04-14 00:39:18 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
If you think it did then why can you not shut up?
Because you obviously misread his post and need to be pointed in the right direction.

Quote:
However, any pilot should be able to be complacent or else the pilot is a victim.
Why should pilots be able to be complacent without it making them victims? After all, that's how self-created victims… well… create themselves.

Oh, and he didn't “fail to disagree” with you.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#923 - 2012-04-14 00:41:51 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
… any pilot should be able to be complacent or else the pilot is a victim.


There is no facepalm great enough to express the culture of failure embodied within that statement.

No matter what ship you fly, the moment you start becoming complacent you may as well stick a huge "please shoot me" sign on your ship. Even leaving your empty hauler idle off a gate because you didn't set the autopilot to the station is being complacent. Eventually someone is going to get bored and gank you just because it's been too long since the last explosion.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Whitehound
#924 - 2012-04-14 00:49:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Because you obviously misread his post and need to be pointed in the right direction.

No, because you cannot ever shut up and I have to put you on ignore again.

Quote:
Why should pilots be able to be complacent without it making them victims? After all, that's how self-created victims… well… create themselves.

Do not flatter yourself. You are only dumb but not a victim.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#925 - 2012-04-14 00:51:55 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
There is no facepalm great enough to express the culture of failure embodied within that statement.

No matter what ship you fly, the moment you start becoming complacent you may as well stick a huge "please shoot me" sign on your ship. Even leaving your empty hauler idle off a gate because you didn't set the autopilot to the station is being complacent. Eventually someone is going to get bored and gank you just because it's been too long since the last explosion.

This is what you tell yourself to keep motivated. The moment you do do you become complacent. Idea

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#926 - 2012-04-14 00:56:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
No, because you cannot ever shut up and I have to put you on ignore again.
Why would I shut up when there's still so much that needs to be explained to you?
Quote:
Do not flatter yourself. You are only dumb but not a victim.
Why can't you answer the question? Why shouldn't complacency create victims?
Whitehound
#927 - 2012-04-14 00:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
No, because you cannot ever shut up and I have to put you on ignore again.
Why would I shut up when there's still so much that needs to be explained to you?
Quote:
Do not flatter yourself. You are only dumb but not a victim.
Why can't you answer the question? Why shouldn't complacency create victims?

You want an explanation from me? You shall have one!

No one said that you shall not become a victim. The point was that if you cannot become complacent then you already are a victim.

Going to bed, talk to you tomorrow, Tippitappi.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#928 - 2012-04-14 01:03:52 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
No one said that you shall not become a victim. The point was that if you cannot become complacent then you already are a victim.
Good thing that you can always become complacent, then.
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#929 - 2012-04-14 01:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: EVE Stig
Ildryn wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Ildryn wrote:


Was replying to someone who quoted me.
And as i have stated several times and other intelligent members of EVE.
Hulks are fine.
It's the pilots who decide Yield > Tank.


And as I have stated several times and other intelligent memebers of EVE.
Hulk are bad.


Meh...then go for yield. Good luck in the belts.


I have friends that do this. And you do it where there arent people. Dont need luck

Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
No one said that you shall not become a victim. The point was that if you cannot become complacent then you already are a victim.
Good thing that you can always become complacent, then.


Once you have to change what you do you become a victim.

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#930 - 2012-04-14 06:12:05 UTC
EVE Stig wrote:
Once you have to change what you do you become a victim.


WTF?

ITT: people who do not understand what "complacency" means, and confuse "adapting to a changing environment" with "victim mentality".

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#931 - 2012-04-14 06:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
No, they don't, because that offence has no chance of making any difference. In fact, using that offence is a very bad idea, since it invalidates the opportunity of revenge you'd get.


And again you talk about easy mode pvp.

Mara Rinn wrote:
The current design of a Hulk allows you to produce much higher yields than any other mining ship.


Nope.

Max yield Cov > max tank Hulk
Non-mining ships also get quite close.

And when easy mode pvp'ed losing a Cov isn't a big deal.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#932 - 2012-04-14 08:19:37 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Plus 1 wrote:
Defense against what? Mission runners almost never avoid ganks by killing potential gankers.

I meant for mission runners doing what they are doing. My statement is also true for most combat ships and I am not talking about ganking in general, because my understanding is that every ship can get ganked.

The only need for a change I see currently is the one regarding the power grid and to get mining ships out of their pathetic state. What people do with the extra power grid is their business.

Do you agree with me or do you say we need ships designed for victims?


This pathetic state being able to feild a tank able to fend off 3 1400mm tornados easily and also having the option of being the best miner money can buy.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#933 - 2012-04-14 08:47:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Plus 1 wrote:
Defense against what? Mission runners almost never avoid ganks by killing potential gankers.

I meant for mission runners doing what they are doing. My statement is also true for most combat ships and I am not talking about ganking in general, because my understanding is that every ship can get ganked.

The only need for a change I see currently is the one regarding the power grid and to get mining ships out of their pathetic state. What people do with the extra power grid is their business.

Do you agree with me or do you say we need ships designed for victims?


This pathetic state being able to feild a tank able to fend off 3 1400mm tornados easily and also having the option of being the best miner money can buy.



Here is a question.

How would giving a Hulk extra HP, change the game for the worse?

All I see, is Gankers having to be a little bit more organized. Which is a good thing yes?. it's an MMO afterall . Fleet play and all that.

Please tell me the down sides of this.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#934 - 2012-04-14 09:02:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
baltec1 wrote:
This pathetic state being able to feild a tank able to fend off 3 1400mm tornados easily and also having the option of being the best miner money can buy.


How do you get 50k EHP without spending billions on officer mods?
Edit: That's of course if they only get one volley/Tornado. If they're lucky, double that.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#935 - 2012-04-14 09:07:30 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:



Here is a question.

How would giving a Hulk extra HP, change the game for the worse?

All I see, is Gankers having to be a little bit more organized. Which is a good thing yes?. it's an MMO afterall . Fleet play and all that.

Please tell me the down sides of this.



Aside from being utterly unnessary and a waste of dev time needed on ships which are broken it would mean hulks could become all but untouchable in high sec. They would also stop being a ship of choice. Right now you can have a great tank or go for great yeild with drawbacks to both options. Buff the hulk and it becomes great at everything. Theres is also no point at all in fixing something that is not broken because you inevatably break it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#936 - 2012-04-14 09:09:07 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
This pathetic state being able to feild a tank able to fend off 3 1400mm tornados easily and also having the option of being the best miner money can buy.


How do you get 50k EHP without spending billions on officer mods?
Edit: That's of course if they only get one volley/Tornado. If they're lucky, double that.

33k is enough
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#937 - 2012-04-14 09:11:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
33k is enough


Full rack of 1400mms hit for 17k volley damage.

17000 x 3 = 51000

If they get two volleys:

51000 x 2 = 102000
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#938 - 2012-04-14 09:18:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:



Here is a question.

How would giving a Hulk extra HP, change the game for the worse?

All I see, is Gankers having to be a little bit more organized. Which is a good thing yes?. it's an MMO afterall . Fleet play and all that.

Please tell me the down sides of this.



Aside from being utterly unnessary and a waste of dev time needed on ships which are broken it would mean hulks could become all but untouchable in high sec. They would also stop being a ship of choice. Right now you can have a great tank or go for great yeild with drawbacks to both options. Buff the hulk and it becomes great at everything. Theres is also no point at all in fixing something that is not broken because you inevatably break it.


How would it make the hulk untouchable. Many times it's been said, Several ships killing 1 ship is acceptable. Dev time? All it needs is extra PG. Rig size says the Hulk is a cruiser sized class. yet it has the PG of a frigate. You can still make a choice to tank or yield. The Hulk is the best mining ship out there. It should be the best at everything for mining,

It not broken is your opinion. This does not make you correct or incorrect.



o7
Kreeia Dgore
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#939 - 2012-04-14 09:19:29 UTC
Why the hell should we fit hulks to max tank? If we do that, the yield will be lollish. The hulk isn't a ship meant to be tank-fitted. It has no reliable resist bonuses, lousy ammount of shields/armor/structure hp and even too few slots to apply a decent tank AND be able to do what the ship was designed for.
We CAN do a turtle hulkie, but then, why the hell, the ship is supposed to mine? If it doesn't mine well, which turtle hulkie simply doesn't, it is as good as useless.
This whole problem rose from ccp buffing destroyers, adding superganking BCs and ignoring affect it has on miners. Bots dont care, living players, which will be the most crucial part in mineral business after inferno, are seriously downgraded by that.
=> Not a matter of players not fitting well, it is a matter of devs neglecting something. And like that it should be wiewed and handled.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#940 - 2012-04-14 09:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
33k is enough


Full rack of 1400mms hit for 17k volley damage.

17000 x 3 = 51000

If they get two volleys:

51000 x 2 = 102000


They dont hit for 17000, not even a maelstrom can get close to that.