These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
Zaitoun Somalian
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#621 - 2012-04-12 20:23:05 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
t3 subsystem idea 1. makes the ship unscannable with D scan. people actually have to go to the belt and look for it.



I don't see why there needs to be any changes to the hulk in terms of survivability. There are some well tanked hulks out there as far as high sec is concerned. We run pretty good security for our corp in high sec with our miners (we get can flippers all the time lately). And I've run into some null sec corps on roams that also do a pretty damn good job as well. Just last week, I cruised Red Alliance territory and we found some folks who had been mining. They were mining in a pocket system with 30+ bubbles on the gate. They had a tower in there and as soon as we hit the system they went right into the pos.

We spent maybe 10 minutes running around and left. No kills. Leave the hulk the way it is and just mine smarter.


Zait
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#622 - 2012-04-12 20:24:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Stick a MWD and point into the mids of any sheild tanker and you impact its tank, any tracking and damage mods into the lows hits the tank of armour ships then puttin on the guns. Then there are the webs, target painters ect ect. It all can build up so you can easily sacrifice a lot of tank for what you need to do.

Even the insta cane only gets around 27k EHP buffer. The tank on a hulk is good.
…e.g. the “Vamos” fit Deimos: 20k EHP without suitcase; 28k with it, and with a honking big EM hole to exploit.

Ok, so it's the Diemost — the ultimate cheap shot in not being able to tank — but still… P
Avila Cracko
#623 - 2012-04-12 20:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
And still CCP is going to BOOST frigs and CRUISERS RollRollRoll
after they boosted destroyers.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Alara IonStorm
#624 - 2012-04-12 20:28:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

You can already tank them well and like anything its a choice of survivability or utility.

You are really going to go with that right after you said this.
baltec1 wrote:

Even the insta cane only gets around 27k EHP buffer. The tank on a hulk is good.

How much utility did you throw on this fit, 6-7 Slots worth plus the grid to fit a good tank if so required.

I want 2 utility slots and a Destroyer sized Extender. Ships make sacrifices all the time but between the 2 lows and 4 mids this ship doesn't have a lot to sacrifice.

Do you think it needs more slots for more sacrifice options? Because 2 Utility Mods and a 4 slot tank where the biggest module is destroyer grade is not a lot to ask for from the best Mining Ship in the game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#625 - 2012-04-12 20:33:36 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

How much utility did you throw on this fit, 6-7 Slots worth plus the grid to fit a good tank if so required.

I want 2 utility slots and a Destroyer sized Extender. Ships make sacrifices all the time but between the 2 lows and 4 mids this ship doesn't have a lot to sacrifice.

Do you think it needs more slots for more sacrifice options? Because 2 Utility Mods and a 4 slot tank where the biggest module is destroyer grade is not a lot to ask for from the best Mining Ship in the game.


Its worked perfectly fine for 6 or 7 years.
Alara IonStorm
#626 - 2012-04-12 20:36:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Its worked perfectly fine for 6 or 7 years.

Same can be said about all the lower tier ships they are buffing in Inferno.

Biggest boost they are giving them all is fitting... so they don't need to make so many sacrifices.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#627 - 2012-04-12 20:37:45 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Its worked perfectly fine for 6 or 7 years.

Same can be said about all the lower tier ships they are buffing in Inferno.

Biggest boost they are giving them all is fitting... so they don't need to make so many sacrifices.


Many t1 cruisers are not working fine in combat and never have. The hulk has always done its job well and continues to do well.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#628 - 2012-04-12 20:39:30 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
And still CCP is going to BOOST frigs and CRUISERS RollRollRoll
after they boosted destroyers.


CCP doesnt want you mining... when are you gonna get the clue

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Alara IonStorm
#629 - 2012-04-12 20:41:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Many t1 cruisers are not working fine in combat and never have. The hulk has always done its job well and continues to do well.

Not true, it can not tank Single Ganks unless it sacrifices all MLU.

It has worked because most people fly paper to get good yield as you have so eagerly stated.

Cruisers right now have ether insufficient damage or tank do to poor fitting which as you said isn't working fine.

They both could use this buff. I don't want to see Exhumers better, just more utility options.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#630 - 2012-04-12 20:46:24 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Not true, it can not tank Single Ganks unless it sacrifices all MLU.

It has worked because most people fly paper to get good yield as you have so eagerly stated.

Cruisers right now have ether insufficient damage or tank do to poor fitting which as you said isn't working fine.

They both could use this buff. I don't want to see Exhumers better, just more utility options.


The hulk is much like the diemost. Max damage and little tank or max tank and reduced firepower. If a maxtank hulk was dragging in very little ore then you might have a point. But it mines slightly better than most t2 fitted covetors while having a much larger buffer and a larger cargo hold to boot.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#631 - 2012-04-12 20:47:53 UTC
A fully tank fit Hulk (MAPC II, DC II, meta 4 LSE, two T2 invulns, best-named active EM hardener, 2x CDFE I) gets 32k EHP with all tanking skills to V. With T2 strip miners, mindlinked Orca bonuses and a 5% mining yield hardwiring, it mines 2636 m3/minute on an ALV character. This is more than any yield-fit mining barge/exhumer can pull.

You're whining about giving up 400 m3/minute (15% of the yield of a full-yield fit) for nearly three times the EHP you would have in a yield fit.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Whitehound
#632 - 2012-04-12 20:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
baltec1 wrote:
Even the insta cane only gets around 27k EHP buffer. The tank on a hulk is good.

Those 25k-32k figures for a Hulk that people have mentioned can only be had at all level 5 and by using every available slot including rigs for its tank. It is about as dull as the one mid-slot of a Covetor, which can only be used for a scanner. At least a Hurricane can be fitted in many different ways for what it is designed to do. The Hulk fits presented here are only a necessity. With the Hulk being the most popular ship, which is a questionable position for any ship in terms of game diversity, could easily get buffed to 50k eHP and it would not change a thing about its role. You are not going to see any alliances suddenly fighting in fleets of Hulks or fielding Hulks in the tournaments any time soon. Nor are you going to change the Hulks popularity by reducing its tank to 10k eHP. The Hulk's tank is not good, its price is not good and its popularity is not good. The Mackinaw is just as bad and the T1 mining ships are not helping either. So what if the Hulk had 50k eHP? Would it be too scary when some Hulk pilots now get all brave, fit warp core stabs and dare mining in low-sec? Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Avila Cracko
#633 - 2012-04-12 20:49:58 UTC
so... a little Cruisers have good stats and dont need buff (when you are comparing its tank with hulk that hulk dont need more HP)
and now when they are getting buff now they are bad (because that would mean that hulk needs buff too)

LOL... that are our EVE politicians Lol

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#634 - 2012-04-12 20:51:24 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
so... a little Cruisers have good stats and dont need buff (when you are comparing its tank with hulk that hulk dont need more HP)
and now when they are getting buff now they are bad (because that would mean that hulk needs buff too)

LOL... that are our EVE politicians Lol


sense, your post makes none

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#635 - 2012-04-12 20:54:36 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
so... a little Cruisers have good stats and dont need buff (when you are comparing its tank with hulk that hulk dont need more HP)
and now when they are getting buff now they are bad (because that would mean that hulk needs buff too)

LOL... that are our EVE politicians Lol


When was the last time you saw a Celestis or Augoror in pvp?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#636 - 2012-04-12 20:54:47 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Those 25k-32k figures for a Hulk that people have mentioned can only be had at all level 5 and by using every available slot inclduing rigs for its tank.
No, you can get to them with much less, and the “all V” skills needed are all very basic and easy to get — by the time you have a Hulk, you should have them trained anyway.

Quote:
With the Hulk being the most popular ship, which is a questionable position for any ship in terms of game diversity, could easily get buffed to 50k eHP and it would not change a thing about its role.
…so it doesn't serve any real purpose to do so.

Quote:
The Hulk's tank is not good, its price is not good and its popularity is not good.
It's tank is respectable — better than some combat ships even — and what could be expected from a harvesting ship. Its price reflects its popularity and its effectiveness, and is currenly being subjected to upward pressure from speculation. Its popularity is through the roof — it's beyond good.
Alara IonStorm
#637 - 2012-04-12 20:55:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The hulk is much like the diemost. Max damage and little tank or max tank and reduced firepower. If a maxtank hulk was dragging in very little ore then you might have a point. But it mines slightly better than most t2 fitted covetors while having a much larger buffer and a larger cargo hold to boot.

Yes but it comes down to sacrifice in the Deimos case. You don't need fitting mods to make good HAC Fits they all get Dmg Mods, Tank and Utility.

A destroyer sized extender, Invulns, Survey Scanner, MLU and T2 Mining Laser is not unlike the Ion II, 800mm Plate 2 EANM, MWD /Scram / Web, 2 Magstab Deimos you can already fit.

You can still sacrifice the Scanner for more tank or the DCU for a second MLU. Just gives the ship a bit more utility.

Whether the game would be better with it is opinion and mine says it will.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#638 - 2012-04-12 21:00:53 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
[quote=baltec1]
Those 25k-32k figures for a Hulk that people have mentioned can only be had at all level 5 and by using every available slot including rigs for its tank. It is about as dull as the one mid-slot of a Covetor, which can only be used for a scanner. At least a Hurricane can be fitted in many different ways for what it is designed to do. The Hulk fits presented here are only a necessity. With the Hulk being the most popular ship, which is a questionable position for any ship in terms of game diversity, could easily get buffed to 50k eHP and it would not change a thing about its role. You are not going to see any alliances suddenly fighting in fleets of Hulks or fielding Hulks in the tournaments any time soon. Nor are you going to change the Hulks popularity by reducing its tank to 10k eHP. The Hulk's tank is not good, its price is not good and its popularity is not good. The Mackinaw is just as bad and the T1 mining ships are not helping either. So what if the Hulk had 50k eHP? Would it be too scary when some Hulk pilots now get all brave, fit warp core stabs and dare mining in low-sec? Roll


There are ships in much greater need of help. Hulks can tank, they can mine and they can do it well. And you also need those level V skills to fly exhumers in the first place so from the moment you can fly a hulk you get that resist bonus. I use every single slot on haulers for tanking too, These things are civilians ships not warships.
Adunh Slavy
#639 - 2012-04-12 21:24:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

There are ships in much greater need of help. Hulks can tank, they can mine and they can do it well. And you also need those level V skills to fly exhumers in the first place so from the moment you can fly a hulk you get that resist bonus. I use every single slot on haulers for tanking too, These things are civilians ships not warships.


In a hyper-capitalist environment, such as Eve, invention and market demands would allow a tank heavy non-combat ship to emerge. that can't happen in Eve as we are restricted to whatever CCP creates for us. This "they are civilian ships not warships" argument falls flat.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#640 - 2012-04-12 21:27:07 UTC
balance trumps realism

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration