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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#601 - 2012-04-12 19:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Prince Kobol wrote:
It still remains a fact. In a fleet the Hulk cannot fullfil it's intended use, as it is required to tank for survivabilty.

Its intended use is to mine which it does better then any other ship.

Do you gimp your DPS while in a fleet?

Prince Kobol wrote:
Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty. The fact that the ganker has first dibs on engagement, already puts the hulk at a disadvatage.

You do not need to tank your hulk for max survivabilty, its called balance. Also you can use the same argument for many other types of industrial ships.

Happy mediums do not happen in fleets

Prince Kobol wrote:
And please. Do not use the "Combat" arguement. All ships are in a combat zone. The tank on all ships should reflect this. As standard. Also you can argue All combat ships have a minimum of 2 defensive mechanisms some 3. The hulk, has the lowest of these mechanisms.

In which case I want my noob ship to have more tank, same with my shuttles

For their size they probably got ample tank

Prince Kobol wrote:
Now I am not saying the Hulk needs a buff. But it is not in a good place. It is only popular because there is not a choice of top end mining ships. Most miners fly a Hulk. How does it compare with all 4 T3 BC's or standard BC's added together. Also Mining probably has the largest amount of people doing it, for iskie making.

A hulk is not a combat ship so do not compare it with other combat ships.

This is about popularity of ships and possible reasons for that

Prince Kobol wrote:
The cost of the Hulk does affect the ganking amount. there is no denying that. But it should not ever reflect it's performance. The value of a product is what people are prepared to pay for it. nothing more.

I have seen many Tengu's ganked by ships worth less then a 10th of its price, does this mean that tengu's need to be buffed?

This is agreeing with Tippia and yourself so why argue against it?

o7
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#602 - 2012-04-12 19:19:47 UTC
t3 mining ship with subsystems pls.

I have more space likes than you. 

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#603 - 2012-04-12 19:19:51 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:


Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty.




Absolution, Aeon, Anathema, Apocalypse, Arazu, Arbitrator, Archon , Ares, Armageddon, Astarte, Atron, Augoror, Avatar, Badger, Badger Mark II, Bantam, Basilisk, Bellicose, Bestower, Blackbird, Breacher, Brutix, Burst, Bustard, Buzzard, Caracal , Catalyst, Celestis, Cerberus, Cheetah, Claw , Claymore, Coercer, Condor, Cormorant, Crane, Crow, Crucifier, Crusader, Curse, Cyclone, Damnation, Deimos, Dominix, Drake, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Erebus, Eris, Executioner, Exequror, Falcon, Ferox, Flycatcher, Griffin, Guardian, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Hawk, Hel, Helios , Heretic, Heron, Hoarder, Hound, Huginn, Hyperion, Imicus, Impel, Incursus, Inquisitor, Ishkur, Ishtar, Iteron, Iteron Mark II, Iteron Mark III, Iteron Mark IV, Iteron Mark V, Jaguar, Kestrel, Lachesis, Leviathan, Malediction, Maller, Mammoth, Manticore, Mastodon, Maulus, Megathron, Merlin, Moa, Moros, Muninn, Naglfar, Navitas, Nemesis, Nidhoggur, Nighthawk, Nyx, Occator, Omen, Oneiros, Osprey, Phoenix, Pilgrim, Probe,
Prophecy, Prorator, Prowler, Punisher, Purifier, Ragnarok, Rapier, Raptor, Raven, Retribution , Revelation, Rifter, Rook, Rokh, Rupture, Sabre, Sacrilege, Scimitar, Scorpion, Scythe, Sigil, Slasher, Sleipnir, Stabber, Stiletto, Taranis, Tempest, Thanatos, Thorax, Thrasher, Tormentor, Tristan, Typhoon, Vagabond, Vengeance, Vexor, Viator, Vigil, Vulture, Wolf, Wreathe, Wyvern and the Zealot.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#604 - 2012-04-12 19:23:58 UTC
^ pretty sure you missed a few...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#605 - 2012-04-12 19:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
malcovas Henderson wrote:

Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty. The fact that the ganker has first dibs on engagement, already puts the hulk at a disadvatage.


It appears I am not clear as to my intent with this. for that i apologize.

Name any other ship thats gimped deliberately while fleeted, to gain maximum survivabilty. To perform it's role


o7
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#606 - 2012-04-12 19:27:39 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
^ pretty sure you missed a few...


Most likely.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#607 - 2012-04-12 19:28:36 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:


It appears I am not clear as to my intent with this. for that i apologize.

Name any other ship thats gimped deliberately while fleeted, to gain maximum survivabilty.


o7


I give you the same answer.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#608 - 2012-04-12 19:30:10 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Name any other ship thats gimped deliberately while fleeted, to gain maximum survivabilty. To perform it's role
None of them, including the Hulk.
Avila Cracko
#609 - 2012-04-12 19:51:46 UTC
some people just dont have life and just troll here all day long that Hulk is fine
Hulk have tank just under the tank of empty beer can.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#610 - 2012-04-12 19:53:08 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
t3 mining ship with subsystems pls.



yes please... i would actually take up minning if i could do it in my proteus...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#611 - 2012-04-12 19:59:47 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
some people just dont have life and just troll here all day long that Hulk is fine
Hulk have tank just under the tank of empty beer can.


Tanks better than many t2 cruisers out there.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#612 - 2012-04-12 20:02:04 UTC
^ which ones? hacs have better tanks... hics have better tanks... even a recon has a better tank...

i still think hulks should get a pg boost for a LSE...

but i am more pushing for a tech III subsystems for minning...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Alara IonStorm
#613 - 2012-04-12 20:06:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
^ which ones? hacs have better tanks... hics have better tanks... even a recon has a better tank...

i still think hulks should get a pg boost for a LSE...

I don't think they need an LSE.

I would be happy if they had fitting for just this.

[Hulk, Without Fitting Mods]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I


Hobgoblin II x5

Without needing to spam fitting mods to get an MSE and Mining Dmg Mod to fit on the same hull with T2 Mining Lasers.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#614 - 2012-04-12 20:08:58 UTC
^ ok so a slight pg boost so it can fit a tank mse/minning setup and not have to completley sacrifice minning efficacy?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#615 - 2012-04-12 20:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
why should I care about the 'balancing problems' from people who prefer to leave their midslots empty rather then fit tanking mods to their shield ship?

If you feel that you need 2 cargohold optimizers + 2 MLUs just to be competitive in highsec mining and can't bother with a tank, that means flying a hulk in high is too safe, not too dangerous
Alara IonStorm
#616 - 2012-04-12 20:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
why should I care about the 'balancing problems' from people who prefer to leave their midslots empty rather then fit tanking mods to their shield ship?

If you feel that you need 2 cargohold optimizers + 2 MLUs just to be competitive in highsec mining and can't bother with a tank, that means flying a hulk in high is too safe, not too dangerous

You shouldn't care about them because they won't fit tanks anyway and will die. You can then feel free to laugh at them.

Care about the people who would.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#617 - 2012-04-12 20:16:47 UTC
t3 subsystem idea 1. makes the ship unscannable with D scan. people actually have to go to the belt and look for it.

I have more space likes than you. 

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#618 - 2012-04-12 20:18:16 UTC
^ yes...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#619 - 2012-04-12 20:18:32 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
^ which ones? hacs have better tanks... hics have better tanks... even a recon has a better tank...

i still think hulks should get a pg boost for a LSE...

but i am more pushing for a tech III subsystems for minning...


Stick a MWD and point into the mids of any sheild tanker and you impact its tank, any tracking and damage mods into the lows hits the tank of armour ships then puttin on the guns. Then there are the webs, target painters ect ect. It all can build up so you can easily sacrifice a lot of tank for what you need to do.

Even the insta cane only gets around 27k EHP buffer. The tank on a hulk is good.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#620 - 2012-04-12 20:22:32 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

You shouldn't care about them because they won't fit tanks anyway and will die. You can then feel free to laugh at them.

Care about the people who would.


You can already tank them well and like anything its a choice of survivability or utility.