Ships & Modules

Tippia can't admit this basic idea that ship cost in materials and SP is a form of balance, because that would throw his/her/its entire argument off kilter. It will simply ignore and equivocate its way out of having to adress this.

Of course it will also cite that hulks are popular ships, ignoring the long standing SP ease of going from a covetor to a hulk, while at the same time turning around and saying player preference, (determined by cost, ability and SP) isn't a factor.

No, you won't be.

You'll be moving at 65m/s. You keep your lasers on target over a ~30km trajectory (a bit less, unless we're talking about a very small asteroid or a very magical Hulk). At that speed, you can stay on target for ~450 seconds — 7½ minutes. That's enough for 2½ cycles, or about 11k m³ worth of ore. With command support, you get even more out of those 30km, and you might even get more than 30km to get more out of… that's a lot of “more.”

Actually, most would argue that numbers prove imbalance. But that's besides the point: numbers do not determine balance — they are not a factor in how two ships are balanced against each other. Instead, it's the opposite: the balance between two ships will influence which of the two you'll see in larger numbers.

Same goes for price: price is not a factor in determining how two ships are balanced against each other. Instead, it's the opposite: the balance between two ships will influence what the ships' respective prices will be. You cannot adjust the balance of a ship by adjusting its price, because people will happily pay that price to get the advantage (or, conversely, they will ignore a lousy ship no matter how cheap).

Funnily enough, this thread, and many of the threads it has spawned, contains claims to the opposite: that there are actually two high-end mining ships and that the Hulk isn't really the more worth-while of the two…

Congratulations on missing the point completely. You are wrong, as always. The argument is that you cannot balance a ship with price because it doesn't actually stop anyone from getting the ship — see above. Price is not a factor in balance because it doesn't actually balance out anything. No matter how high you price something to “balance” its superior stats, people will obtain the resources required and start using it, and now you have something that is inherently unbalanced wreaking havoc in the game.

By the way, you still haven't been able to provide any specific argument that I have ignored. It's safe to say, at this point, that this is because you have none. Case closed.

…and it's still not the numbers that determine the balance. The numbers are an effect of the balance, and CCP (or more commonly the players) look at those numbers to infer that something is or isn't balanced about the ships. The imbalance is with the ships themselves. No matter how the numbers look, the balance is determined by the ships and their stats. No matter how the numbers change, unless the stats change, the balance isn't altered. Likewise, price does not determine balance — if anything, balance determines price. High price is then also an effect of balance, not the other way around: balance is a factor in price; price is not a factor in balance.

…and you're still unable to point out what's being missed.

You have been asked to prove your nonsense. You have been unable to do so. So proof or shush, puppet.

Prove it.

Yo guys keep arguing, and I'll just keep mining in my tanked hulk while you guys lose yours to a thrasher.

again, you can safely mission afk, whys it such a HUGE EVE sin to mine AFK?

ya you dont have to be the fastest

Just faster than the guy you trip

Wonder how much longer till ibtl since this thread's gone from the topic to individual fighting between the ppl IN the thread

wow look at this, a 42k ehp hulk

http://i.imgur.com/2kY32.jpg

okay

would the gankers go after your 40k ehp hulk or the paper tanked hulk with a civilian shield booster next to you? obviously the latter

would they even USE four tornadoes on you? nope

doesnt anything under 50k still die to a dessie? Cause I saw something earlier Tippia put up about a 50k something else earlier and said it could still die to them