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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

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Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#441 - 2012-04-11 22:14:46 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Gotta agree with most of the above. It's a mining ship not a battleship or even a cruiser. You might find trucks full of expensive equipment in a warzone, but that doesn't mean it can or should have the defences of a tank. The hulk is designed to extract ore quickly and absolutely nothing else. If it had an amazing tank it would be unrealistic IMHO.


Then why is it's ore extraction less than twice that of a mining Abaddon with very high EHP?

Or mining Rokh.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#442 - 2012-04-11 22:19:42 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
I am only repeating what CCP said. You need to talk to them when you think their reasoning was wrong.
Ok, you need to provide an actual example and reference now.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2012-04-11 22:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
In the end is it irrelevant to the people who say that a ship of 300m ISKs is too expensive. It is an opinion one needs to respect.
Then they can choose not to buy that ship and get something that fits their price/performance requirements better… which will eventually make that ship price come down to where they start to afford it again.

Alternatively, they'll notice that jumping ships will not let them earn as much as the new baseline for the economy, and realise that those 300M is actually not expensive any more compared to what you earn when flying it.

Either way, the price is not an argument for buffing or nerfing a ship, especially not when the price is subject to player control to such a large extent.

Quote:
Read the devblogs. CCP has stated a few times that changes were made to address the prices of items.
…but, again, not to affect their balance, since cost is not a factor for balance. What they've done in all those cases is the exact opposite.


Hee hee.

Or they should get a fully insured Covetor using the Lete Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II for 11,586 hitpoints EHP and like 10% less mining rate.

You are joking, right?
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#444 - 2012-04-11 22:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Karim alRashid wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:



[quote]
Take the griffin, and compare it to the Falcon. Both have the same roles. do you stop at the griffin for your ewar game?


No, of course, but not because I want to own a Falcon, but because Falcon is a better tool fo achieving my goals.



Exactly. Thats why people buy the hulk. It offers the best potential for their goals. It's their "top of the range". It's their final goal. Why would miners stop at the Precuror?
Whitehound
#445 - 2012-04-11 22:30:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
I am only repeating what CCP said. You need to talk to them when you think their reasoning was wrong.
Ok, you need to provide an actual example and reference now.

Lol No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#446 - 2012-04-11 22:30:12 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Gotta agree with most of the above. It's a mining ship not a battleship or even a cruiser. You might find trucks full of expensive equipment in a warzone, but that doesn't mean it can or should have the defences of a tank. The hulk is designed to extract ore quickly and absolutely nothing else. If it had an amazing tank it would be unrealistic IMHO.


Then why is it's ore extraction less than twice that of a mining Abaddon with very high EHP?

Or mining Rokh.


You mean almost twice as much ? Lol

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#447 - 2012-04-11 22:32:25 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
I am only repeating what CCP said. You need to talk to them when you think their reasoning was wrong.
Ok, you need to provide an actual example and reference now.

Lol No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.



OK, they have never said that.

Prove me wrong.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#448 - 2012-04-11 22:34:31 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.
No, it's your loss because it means you cannot support your claims, and we can summarily dismiss them as nonsense.

So no, cost is not a factor in balance.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#449 - 2012-04-11 22:36:08 UTC
lol lvl 2 mission artifact recovery, I warp in and start killing miners "ah so this is what its like"

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#450 - 2012-04-11 22:38:17 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Why doesn't anybody do anything about it then?

The problem is mentality, not rules.


Sadly, the gankbears are just as protected by Concord as the miners. Here's to high hopes for crimewatch 2.0.


moreso cause if you shoot them first YOU die

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#451 - 2012-04-11 22:38:42 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:


Take the griffin, and compare it to the Falcon. Both have the same roles. do you stop at the griffin for your ewar game?


No, of course, but not because I want to own a Falcon, but because Falcon is a better tool fo achieving my goals.


Exactly. Thats why people buy the hulk. It offers the best potential for their goals. It's their "top of the range". It's their final goal. Why would miners stop at the Precuror?


I'm not sure what point are you trying to make.

I said acquiring gear is not a goal and you said it's important part of the game, to which I agree, but it still does not contradict the statement that acquiring gear is not a goal by itself.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#452 - 2012-04-11 22:40:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.
No, it's your loss because it means you cannot support your claims, and we can summarily dismiss them as nonsense.

So no, cost is not a factor in balance.


Who are you speaking on behalf of, or is it all about you ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#453 - 2012-04-11 22:44:17 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
Who are you speaking on behalf of, or is it all about you ?
Everyone. Onus probandi is nasty that way… Twisted
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#454 - 2012-04-11 22:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Whitehound wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
I am only repeating what CCP said. You need to talk to them when you think their reasoning was wrong.
Ok, you need to provide an actual example and reference now.

Lol No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.


awww cmon, link, and this crimewatch thing too

Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
No, if you do not read the devblogs on a regular basis then it is your loss and not mine.
No, it's your loss because it means you cannot support your claims, and we can summarily dismiss them as nonsense.

So no, cost is not a factor in balance.


Yes tho I always think the "no proof is proof" argument is funny

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Adunh Slavy
#455 - 2012-04-11 22:47:53 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ok, you're not reading what I'm writing.

I do read what you write. It seems to me that you are trying to avoid my point, but why? Unless you want to tell me will I however not care why you do this. In the end is it irrelevant to the people who say that a ship of 300m ISKs is too expensive. It is an opinion one needs to respect.


Welcome to Tip's debate tactics.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#456 - 2012-04-11 22:51:36 UTC
Hulks are designed to tank null sec belt rats. Feel free to try that in a Covetor/Retriever (whatever the tier III one is) and you will then see where your money goes to. Just because idiots think it should be used in high sec too doesn't mean it suddenly deserves a buffer tank.

The true solution, as always, is to fit according to your environment. High sec being a more dangerous place to mine than null sec implies that you should take measures to make it either harder to be ganked (mining battleship), or less tasty a target (TI exhumer, or mine in Gravimetrics).

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#457 - 2012-04-11 22:54:00 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
The true solution, as always, is to fit according to your environment. High sec being a more dangerous place to mine than null sec implies that you should take measures to make it either harder to be ganked (mining battleship), or less tasty a target (TI exhumer, or mine in Gravimetrics).
Now now. What have we said about being reasonable and intelligent around here. Shame on you. Evil
Whitehound
#458 - 2012-04-11 22:58:30 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Welcome to Tip's debate tactics.

She or he is in disbelieve over almost everything. I will certainly not dig through tons of devblogs, patch notes and other stuff just to make them believe.

I think we all know that prices matter to the players and that CCP cares about what players think. I wonder why people suddenly fail to remember the changes to the moon mats for example. Some alliances were sitting quite strong on some of the rare ones and CCP changed T2 to take away some of the pressure this had created. Some alliances were hauling ISKs in the billions with single moons iirc. It was a change CCP had made only to address the costs involved in T2 production. And now Tippia pretends to have forgotten about it. Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#459 - 2012-04-11 23:00:08 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Hulks are designed to tank null sec belt rats. Feel free to try that in a Covetor/Retriever (whatever the tier III one is) and you will then see where your money goes to. Just because idiots think it should be used in high sec too doesn't mean it suddenly deserves a buffer tank.

The true solution, as always, is to fit according to your environment. High sec being a more dangerous place to mine than null sec implies that you should take measures to make it either harder to be ganked (mining battleship), or less tasty a target (TI exhumer, or mine in Gravimetrics).


Minerals in high-sec are already less valuable than minerals in null-sec. It seems unfair to not just mine crappier minerals, but at a slower rate while being at higher risk too.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#460 - 2012-04-11 23:01:32 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
EvE is not a game of acquiring gear. Thus the "endgame" you describe does not exist, Vaerah.


This was the post I was refering to.


Karim alRashid wrote:


I said acquiring gear is not a goal and you said it's important part of the game, to which I agree, but it still does not contradict the statement that acquiring gear is not a goal by itself.


The original statement stated, EvE is not a game of acquiring gear. Which is incorrect. While not important to certain degree. To achieve advancement,you need better quality ships. You cannot run lvl 4 missions in a T1 frigate.

If you choose to fly a rifter throughout your EvE career. that would be your preogarative. It will mean you negate a huge part of the game. A Hulk is the pinnacle ship of Mining. So a Miners ultimate ship to fly "goal", is a Hulk. Which validates Vaerah V's arguement.

o7