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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#601 - 2012-03-29 00:41:26 UTC
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.


Then CCP should have told them this?


Well by disregarding their collective advise haven't they just done this?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#602 - 2012-03-29 00:41:32 UTC
Andski wrote:
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
Then bust it is.. for the goons...


You do not want to know how things end when we go "bust" friend


Lol, u are not as important as u believe to be...
Coda Grimoire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#603 - 2012-03-29 00:41:39 UTC
I'd like to raise a historic point. At some points in history games have been seen as the way for people to become more civilized. For example, many students who want to play college sports must keep their grades up. Before online gaming, you could be a dickwad all you want, but NOT on field of play.

With online gaming, we get the chance to reverse that and we have.

Mittens showed on film the face of gamer bullying and his ridicule of a player victimized was the call of a bully.

Bullies are playing hot and heavy in EVE. I'm so astonished how instantly bullies turn into victims if they are called on their stuff.

Bullies are very comfortable ridiculing other players...makes them feel better. They think because it is online, the rules have changed and they can bully people in a game much easier than in real life. They think it is FUN.

Mittens was having a ball at fanfest, but he wasn't there as a griefing eve player. He was there as the head of CMS and an alliance leader. He needs a time out, at least. Frankly, this is serious enough to warrant he step down.

I would respect him if he did it of his own accord.

On the other hand, FanFest was amazing and I'm looking forward to 60 million new DUST514 best friends. \o/
Townsend Harris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#604 - 2012-03-29 00:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Offtopic link removed. Spitfire
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#605 - 2012-03-29 00:42:25 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Incidentally, I think CCP owe me a ban. If what you do out of game at fanfest is subject to the EULA, I violated it by impersonating Mittani throughout the week.


Nobody really cares since you don't represent anyone but yourself.


And yet I impersonated not just another player in game, which is against the EULA, but someone in a position of authority at CCP.
Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#606 - 2012-03-29 00:43:15 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.


Then CCP should have told them this?


Well by disregarding their collective advise haven't they just done this?


I said told as in civilly, like they respected their opinion as elected representatives.
Not by tossing out a decision they must have given some sort of approval to without warning.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#607 - 2012-03-29 00:43:33 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Rebecca Aventine wrote:
I didn't envy Alex or CCP when this broke.

I respect Alex a great deal for making his apology, but regretably this was always the most realistic outcome.


What makes this bad is that CCP yanked the CSM's chain. They sent one message to the CSM and then quite another entirely as their official position. The fallout wouldn't be nearly so bad without that misstep.

-Liang



The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.

This is the problem with sycophancy in a nutshell. Last year they got so used to being beta males to the Mittani's alpha that they lost their collective backbone and the problem now is that the CSM iself is out of touch with the player base it is supposed to represent.



Jade, so democracy only works when you agree with the conclusions? The CSM was going to talk about what they decided, including removing Mittens, this was cut short by CCP. What kind of independent body is the CSM now?


sigh really. CSM was never independent of game rules and enforcement of eula/tos. And certainly never "independent" of the need to represent the game in a positive light.

Yes this current CSM has probably lost some credibility by attempting to keep Alexander Gianturco in position which was a stupid move.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#608 - 2012-03-29 00:44:38 UTC
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.


Then CCP should have told them this?


Well by disregarding their collective advise haven't they just done this?


I said told as in civilly, like they respected their opinion as elected representatives.
Not by tossing out a decision they must have given some sort of approval to without warning.


Well seeing as the CSM members posted seconds after this thread went live either they knew it was coming or they just got very lucky indeed. My money is they were told what the decision was in advance.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#609 - 2012-03-29 00:45:29 UTC
Bacchanalian wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Incidentally, I think CCP owe me a ban. If what you do out of game at fanfest is subject to the EULA, I violated it by impersonating Mittani throughout the week.


Nobody really cares since you don't represent anyone but yourself.


And yet I impersonated not just another player in game, which is against the EULA, but someone in a position of authority at CCP.


Did you get drunk on stage and embarrass the company and player base of Eve Online in the eyes of the gaming media perchance?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Shniker
Perkone
Caldari State
#610 - 2012-03-29 00:45:29 UTC
Personally, I feel a 30 day ban in accordance with EVE TOS is fine, as you could argue the Alliance Panel in an extension of the forums (especially due to the live feed). Yes, Alex did something stupid but he is doing his best to make amends and appears to genuinely regret his actions; not because of the consequences but because he believe what he did was wrong (a lot of people are judging him on his in-game persona, but I have seen no factual evidence from which to question his sincerity).

His removal from CSM I’m unsure on, the decision to drastically alter fanfest has me extremely worried.

CCP, you have just gone over the edge of a very steep and very slippery slope. You need to ask yourself: “If this hadn’t gone to gaming media and become the story of the week, if we weren’t concerned with the reactions of companies such as Sony, what would our reaction have been?”

If the answer is ‘different to our current response’ then I suggest you start seriously reconsidering, before you build up too much momentum to turn around. If you try to fundamentally change the mindset of EVE based off the gut reaction of a wider gaming (or worse: business) community who have little or no understanding of what EVE is, you might as well ban all forms of griefing and release ‘pay-to-win’ items, it will be just as fatal to the game.

You nearly lost EVE once within the last 12 months, please CCP, think before you put yourself in that situation again.
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#611 - 2012-03-29 00:46:23 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Incidentally, I think CCP owe me a ban. If what you do out of game at fanfest is subject to the EULA, I violated it by impersonating Mittani throughout the week.


Nobody really cares since you don't represent anyone but yourself.


And yet I impersonated not just another player in game, which is against the EULA, but someone in a position of authority at CCP.


Did you get drunk on stage and embarrass the company and player base of Eve Online in the eyes of the gaming media perchance?


No, I got drunk and gave an interview to some podcast or another pretending to be Mittens, which ultimately could have ended the same way.
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#612 - 2012-03-29 00:46:36 UTC
I don't particular like the decision (his resignation + tempban would have been sufficient).

But its done now. ALL of you (Issler, Jade, Darius III: you didnt make a good impression), including goons, remember one thing:
We all like this game, we all want it to succeed. So try to restrain yourself before you create a marketing disaster that leaves it ruined.
(basically, no mass-rage-goon-unsub, ect.)

A jita-burns-event... ok, don't care too much. But think before applying scorched earth to CCP itself. Doesn't help anybody if the whole thing fails.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#613 - 2012-03-29 00:47:32 UTC
Holy shi CCP what are you smoking ? How can someone break the EULA/TOS without logging into EVE ?
also he didn't forfeit being on the CSM, he simply declined the chairmanship, maybe you should activate your brains before posting a devblog

leave the handling of this to the CSM, you're obviously incompetent
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#614 - 2012-03-29 00:48:32 UTC
I am looking back at some fanfest footage and I can see other instances of the EULA being violated.

Do I assume these are being investigated, also?

Or is your ban just the pandering to gaming-trash journalism that it looks?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

kdsjfjhiskhfs
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#615 - 2012-03-29 00:48:40 UTC
Ignore 10058 people is just pure lol what a shame.

I would like remind you 10058 x 15 usd x 12 months =~ 1.800.000 usd are you forget what happen when you ignore eve players (u know its called incarna)
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#616 - 2012-03-29 00:48:41 UTC
Bacchanalian wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Incidentally, I think CCP owe me a ban. If what you do out of game at fanfest is subject to the EULA, I violated it by impersonating Mittani throughout the week.


Nobody really cares since you don't represent anyone but yourself.


And yet I impersonated not just another player in game, which is against the EULA, but someone in a position of authority at CCP.


Did you get drunk on stage and embarrass the company and player base of Eve Online in the eyes of the gaming media perchance?


No, I got drunk and gave an interview to some podcast or another pretending to be Mittens, which ultimately could have ended the same way.


well *shrug* tbh. If you feel strongly about it maybe you should petition yourself.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Hitokiri Battoesai
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#617 - 2012-03-29 00:48:44 UTC
Bad CCP!


I can not help but laugh at all the Goon/goon pet tears, though. Roll
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#618 - 2012-03-29 00:48:50 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Rebecca Aventine wrote:
I didn't envy Alex or CCP when this broke.

I respect Alex a great deal for making his apology, but regretably this was always the most realistic outcome.


What makes this bad is that CCP yanked the CSM's chain. They sent one message to the CSM and then quite another entirely as their official position. The fallout wouldn't be nearly so bad without that misstep.

-Liang



The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.

This is the problem with sycophancy in a nutshell. Last year they got so used to being beta males to the Mittani's alpha that they lost their collective backbone and the problem now is that the CSM iself is out of touch with the player base it is supposed to represent.



Jade, so democracy only works when you agree with the conclusions? The CSM was going to talk about what they decided, including removing Mittens, this was cut short by CCP. What kind of independent body is the CSM now?


sigh really. CSM was never independent of game rules and enforcement of eula/tos. And certainly never "independent" of the need to represent the game in a positive light.

Yes this current CSM has probably lost some credibility by attempting to keep Alexander Gianturco in position which was a stupid move.



You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
Widowscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#619 - 2012-03-29 00:52:28 UTC
Maybe you guys should have split your votes and got 2 CSMs?
STARTSWARS
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2012-03-29 00:54:20 UTC
What a complete farce this election system is. 10,058 pay to play subscribers democratically elected our Socialist Dear Leader to be a voice for the people,but c.c.p. (a.k.a. The 4th Reich) has deemed him to be impure and therefore unfit to spread their message of meaningful progress (lol) and superiority over other mmo's. Our goose stepping overlords have made it abundantly clear now that anybody who is in the public spotlight that plays this GAME better not get egg on their face, or they will be subject to harsh reprisals regardless if said offense is committed ingame(within our jurisdiction) or out of game(well beyond our realm of jurisdiction, but hey we are a dictatorship,we give no f**ks)

FREE THE MITTANI NOW