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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Theodoric Darkwind
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#641 - 2012-03-29 01:06:31 UTC
Andski wrote:
The only appropriate solution is to either leave Mittani on the council or start a new election. Disenfranchising a vocal group of players with 10,058 - 20% of the voting base - accounts between them is never, ever acceptable.


^^

If CCP insists on disenfranchising over 10k paying customers then its probably time to teach CCP a lesson that will hurt them where it counts. Time to burn EVE to the ground.
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2012-03-29 01:06:32 UTC
bestposteringoonfleet wrote:
You can take away my CSM leader... but you cannot take away our ability to ruin your game.

TwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedPirateTwistedTwistedTwistedPiratePiratePirate


of course, you've already ruined the game for more than 2 years, this is just a late and minor payback
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#643 - 2012-03-29 01:07:14 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#644 - 2012-03-29 01:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Temmu Guerra
To be honest mittens did this to himself. Had he not been such a huge **** in game so many people wouldnt want his head on a spit...

Guess the only thing to say is karma is a b!tch
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#645 - 2012-03-29 01:08:37 UTC
Unsubbing goons won't be ccps biggest problem in about one month haha.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Chris LaPlant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#646 - 2012-03-29 01:08:48 UTC
Ah Goon tears. They sustain me.
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2012-03-29 01:09:34 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.


another advice for you
you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#648 - 2012-03-29 01:09:55 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.


So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?

You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart.

The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm.

But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident.





I don't necessarily disagree with his 30 day ban, and yes I fully agree that it is well withing CCPs right to do it. But there are rights and there is intellegence. This isn't the most intellegent process. CCP could have and should have told the CSM that due to Mittens actions they believe it is best if he isn't on the CSM this year. THE CSM should have made this announcement.


Are they a rubber stamp or are they an actual useful body?



I said earlier I think the CSM was damaged immensely last year by being used as a virtual "rubber stamp" for Alexander Gianturco himself. The presentation style and behind closed doors zero record keeping shoddy minutes and generally secretive approach to CSM was a pretty regressive devolution of what was originally quite transparent and accountable.

Alexander in his alliance leadership style in Goonswarm promotes an alpha male -> beta male hierarchy thing and unfortunately this followed into his chairmanship of the CSM. Thats why the current (last) lot can't really think of operating without him.

So to your question. At the moment I'm honestly not sure if they are any use any more.

Thats the long and short of it.

I voted for a new face to bring something fresh to the process - > Hans, but he ended up with an alternate slot. Fingers crossed he can make a difference.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

xXv1c10usXx
Alchemy Corp
#649 - 2012-03-29 01:11:35 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?


If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later.

That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations.

And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.


Swammy Say (looking in to the crystal ball now) Official Alliance soon to be formed called "Band of Developers".
CSM8 will all be members of said alliance. Darius III will change his portrait to be one of skin that is dark brown (stained from all the SH!T is absorbs while up BOD's alliance ass).
Zarrack Zenndah
State War Academy
Caldari State
#650 - 2012-03-29 01:11:52 UTC
Goon tears?? This thread is drowning in Goon tears? My, my. Why does the sound reaching my ears from the Goons sound so similar to that normally heard from Goon victims?

Do you feel it is unfair? Do you feel it is outside the rules? Did you just want to play your game your way and not have anyone else in Eve enjoy your grief?

Eve is a sandbox, you want a regimented rigid MMO go play WOW else deal with it and HTFU.

Diamonica Norya
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#651 - 2012-03-29 01:12:05 UTC
well i recall that we always used to see in the patchnotes that we have the final line that says "various improvements that makes eve a better world for us to be in"

since csm6 and the goons/goon pets rise to power, there's not been much of this line appearing.

maybe the unsubbing of the goon + pets will bring this lovely line back and I'm looking forward to a better world that New Eden has to come.

Please continue your rant about unsubbing, more pics or it didn't happen.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#652 - 2012-03-29 01:13:15 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.


another advice for you
you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...



You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice.
Derrick Munroe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#653 - 2012-03-29 01:14:31 UTC
Chris LaPlant wrote:
Ah Goon tears. They sustain me.


Ah... you know what sustains me? The smell of Tenal in the morning.

Knock knock.

What's it like, not owning any tech moons?

Flette
Rosen Association
#654 - 2012-03-29 01:14:55 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?


If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later.

That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations.

And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.



What many of you fail to realize, is that to the rest of the world (including all legal entities) the CSM is an arm of CCP.

Without CCP, there is no CSM. When the CSM goes to iceland on CCP's dime, they are representing CCP.

So, when something like this happens, where the fallout can come from far outside the little halls of CCP or the even smaller virtual walls of the game, CCP has to act...especially when the CSM fails to do so. The CSM failing to oust the chairman on it's own is really a sad indicator of how useless and morally bankrupt the CSM is.

Again, the Mittani will be lucky if this is all that happens to him, and CCP will be lucky as well.
Luciana BlitzKriger
Adventurers
#655 - 2012-03-29 01:16:00 UTC
Can’t we re-do the election again, move on from what has happen an start again without the incident that happen or is to late to do another Election process?
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#656 - 2012-03-29 01:18:08 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.


another advice for you
you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...



You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice.


the CSM never was and never will be the final ruling power in eve
thats not how you run a company or an MMO
i told you allready , in an democracy you cannot buy unlimit voting slots as long as you have the bucks for it
and my dear unbaised friend dont curse at me , thx

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!

Flette
Rosen Association
#657 - 2012-03-29 01:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Flette
Luciana BlitzKriger wrote:
Can’t we re-do the election again, move on from what has happen an start again without the incident that happen or is to late to do another Election process?


This is what alternates are for, and I believe there is an alternate in this case?

There are no do-overs in real life.
Xenuria
#658 - 2012-03-29 01:19:24 UTC
The Mittani should have the right to give his votes to a person of his choice.
That person should be me.
Madis Joringer
Ginger Marketing
#659 - 2012-03-29 01:19:36 UTC
What I find funny is all the rage coming from GSF over this. When they grief someone in-game, they find it funny enough to keep records of all the tears, as seen on the alliance panel that started all this. They take pleasure in seeing people complain about losing their internet spaceships and tell them they shouldn't be soo upset over pixels on a computer. But when something doesn't go their way, the whole of goonswarm comes out crying foul.
As a CSM member, Mittens knew the rules, or at least he should have. One of those rules is abiding by the TOS/EULA and is clearly stated when a person enters the running for CSM. Whether GSF wants to believe it or not, he violated those rules and suffered the consequences of his actions, in this case a temp ban and removal from CSM7. Had this been any other member, I highly doubt GSF would be whining this much about it.
Those 10k votes? Oh well. The vast majority voted for him because of his title and position in the GSF alone, regardless of his merits. You vote for a sociopath, you get a sociopath. Deal with it. If you want to blame someone for your vote not 'counting', blame Mittens. He is ultimately the reason for his own removal. He broke the rules, not CCP.
And those people threatening to cancel their accounts over this? Good riddance! Eve will survive without you, and honestly would probably be better off. You shouldn't be soo upset over internet spaceship politics. Its a game folks.
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#660 - 2012-03-29 01:21:09 UTC
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Joe D'Trader wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:



You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.

in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month

if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it
or not

CCP is like putin



CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.


another advice for you
you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...



You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice.


Read Jade better, CSM is not a democracy, it just got elected democratically but it's function and powers are limited. Monoclegate and Incarna didn't get resolved because of the CSM, it's the entire majority of Eve players. In fact, CSM let bad things gets into development and was only appearing working on resolutions for their own political gains.

The last CSM failed us like what Jade says, and this one will too, i regret voting for mittens and now I'm reliefed that God is graceful in granting me the redemption.