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CSM 7 - We Should Not Accept This Behavior!!

First post First post
Author
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2012-03-28 00:40:28 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Vorlain wrote:
Personally I have no issue with Issler’s statement and think it is quite welcome and if the other CSM members have an issue with that and won’t work with Issler over it they need to take a good hard look at their own ethics.

While The Mittani made a drunken mistake and will undoubtedly pay for it, no matter how idiotic the entire situation is, Issler is using it for political grandstanding. The issue is not that Issler made a statement, the issue is that she threw her teammates under the bus while doing so.


And I'm guessing this metaphoric bus was being driven by a high level wizard?

.

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#242 - 2012-03-28 00:41:37 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
OK first things first.

It's pretty obvious that Issler doesn't give a damn about The Wis, this whole thread is just some weird soap boxing power play. Maybe she thinks the CSM works like The Highlander and if she can take out all the CSMs above her she gets to be chairman v0v




I take suicide very seriously. I've had people in my life make that very unfortunate decision so you couldn't be more wrong. I also have been on the receiving end of similar forms of harassment.

You can go on about my not meeting your expectations and try and invent bizarre motives for "power grabs" but how on earth could that work?

I'll grant you that you may disagree with my methods but you can't claim that my motives aren't genuine. This situation all comes down to a very simple fact, if someone wants to be an asshat in game, awesome, welcome to Eve! If that same person takes it out of game, now I have issues.

As to the other CSM members. I'm sorry that what I have said in this thread was viewed as an attack. You have the right to take a stand or not in your own time. But by the same measure, so do I.

I wasn't going to post more in this thread but I felt I needed to correct this poster. I take harassment of someone that may be struggling with depression (a very real and life threatening condition) very seriously. I've seen the effects first hand.

I feel sorry for both parties. Wis should not have been treated the way he was and Mittens is going to have to live with a rash act that will be a dark shadow over much of what he accomplished here in Eve. There are no winners here.

This really is the last post from me until the "official" announcements arrive.

And thanks to everyone that has contacted me directly with your support.

Issler
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2012-03-28 00:46:05 UTC
Quote:
Yeah, because that's why people are in such a rage about this whole "scandal", my has nothing to do with people using this guy as a tool to get back at Mittani.


It's nothing to do with Mittani, however easily it might be perceived to be.

I would be JUST AS HAPPY if CCP gave mittani a warning and told everyone that such behaviour wouldn't be tolerated, and people won't get warnings they will get banned.

The problem right now is the whole "oh you can't say that without us all sitting in skype getting our stories straight" attitude that the CSM is relatively famous for. They worked fairly hard to get rid of the stigma of all being known to "agree on absotively everything" last CSM with pretty much the same people involved all led by - yep the same guy.

And how dare someone stand up and say that the behaviour shouldn't be tolerated - and let's face it - it's an individual character assessment at this point not a CSM stance - without first having checked with Mittani on skype.

"Our CSM will blot out the sun!"

.

Tergerom Loregeron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2012-03-28 00:46:16 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Wolodymyr wrote:
OK first things first.

It's pretty obvious that Issler doesn't give a damn about The Wis, this whole thread is just some weird soap boxing power play. Maybe she thinks the CSM works like The Highlander and if she can take out all the CSMs above her she gets to be chairman v0v




I'll grant you that you may disagree with my methods but you can't claim that my motives aren't genuine.



Then you're an idiot, congratulations on trying to get your vengeance at the expense of the victim. Mittani made a mistake, he's just as human as you are. Until he repeatedly acts in a manner such as what he did at the alliance panel there is absolutely no reason to get worked up about it.





Don't **** up now, or ever, ya hear? You might lose your CSM spot.
Frying Doom
#245 - 2012-03-28 01:05:30 UTC
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:

Then you're an idiot, congratulations on trying to get your vengeance at the expense of the victim. Mittani made a mistake, he's just as human as you are. Until he repeatedly acts in a manner such as what he did at the alliance panel there is absolutely no reason to get worked up about it.


So The Mittani's original idea wasn't at the expense of the victim, let alone the comments he made? So he should be forgiven until he behaves like this repeatedly, are you insane?

His behavior has given EvE a worse name than it already had, he should do what he said and resign or this will blow up even worse than it has now.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Tergerom Loregeron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2012-03-28 01:11:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:

Then you're an idiot, congratulations on trying to get your vengeance at the expense of the victim. Mittani made a mistake, he's just as human as you are. Until he repeatedly acts in a manner such as what he did at the alliance panel there is absolutely no reason to get worked up about it.


So The Mittani's original idea wasn't at the expense of the victim, let alone the comments he made? So he should be forgiven until he behaves like this repeatedly, are you insane?

His behavior has given EvE a worse name than it already had, he should do what he said and resign or this will blow up even worse than it has now.


Two wrongs make a right, right? He apologized already, he was pretty damn sincere about it too. Go find something else to have a witch hunt about, something more productive and beneficial to society. This isn't going to blow up and be "even worse".
D Derp
Savannah Logistics
#247 - 2012-03-28 01:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: D Derp
Issler Dainze wrote:
Wolodymyr wrote:
OK first things first.

It's pretty obvious that Issler doesn't give a damn about The Wis, this whole thread is just some weird soap boxing power play. Maybe she thinks the CSM works like The Highlander and if she can take out all the CSMs above her she gets to be chairman v0v




I take suicide very seriously. I've had people in my life make that very unfortunate decision so you couldn't be more wrong. I also have been on the receiving end of similar forms of harassment.

You can go on about my not meeting your expectations and try and invent bizarre motives for "power grabs" but how on earth could that work?

I'll grant you that you may disagree with my methods but you can't claim that my motives aren't genuine. This situation all comes down to a very simple fact, if someone wants to be an asshat in game, awesome, welcome to Eve! If that same person takes it out of game, now I have issues.

As to the other CSM members. I'm sorry that what I have said in this thread was viewed as an attack. You have the right to take a stand or not in your own time. But by the same measure, so do I.

I wasn't going to post more in this thread but I felt I needed to correct this poster. I take harassment of someone that may be struggling with depression (a very real and life threatening condition) very seriously. I've seen the effects first hand.

I feel sorry for both parties. Wis should not have been treated the way he was and Mittens is going to have to live with a rash act that will be a dark shadow over much of what he accomplished here in Eve. There are no winners here.

This really is the last post from me until the "official" announcements arrive.

And thanks to everyone that has contacted me directly with your support.

Issler


I too, have had family members and close ones commit suicide. We all have. Same with depression. Don't try to garner pity after being called out.


e: I just wanted to be the first poster to make this comment.

They killed themselves because of my posting!


e2: Lost some family to cancer too. Send me isk.
D Derp
Savannah Logistics
#248 - 2012-03-28 01:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: D Derp
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:
This isn't going to blow up and be "even worse".


Basically this. Stop trying to blow everything out of proportion you terrible publords.



another edit: Seriously, when it comes to trying to gin up righteous indignation, you people make Fox News look good.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#249 - 2012-03-28 01:34:57 UTC
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term. You do realize that the election is over, and now is the time to work together for the good of the people that voted for us, not to try to stir up a shitstorm?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Lomarro
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2012-03-28 01:36:33 UTC
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term. You do realize that the election is over, and now is the time to work together for the good of the people that voted for us, not to try to stir up a shitstorm?


you got mroe votes than her so you are a possible target for her
D Derp
Savannah Logistics
#251 - 2012-03-28 01:41:20 UTC
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term. You do realize that the election is over, and now is the time to work together for the good of the people that voted for us, not to try to stir up a shitstorm?


What you clearly don't understand is that the CSM should be treated like the sad sideshow that is Modern American Politics. Right after an election is the best time to start campaigning!

Didn't get elected? Start whining and crying about how horrible The Other Guys are. It's a tactic that's been proven effective*




*that tactic is being misused by terrible internet dwelling sperglords with no sense of how to communicate to people, or which battles they should fight.
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#252 - 2012-03-28 01:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
Issler Dainze wrote:
I'll grant you that you may disagree with my methods but you can't claim that my motives aren't genuine

OK this is empirically provably bullshit and here is why. OK everyone click on the first page of this thread. Let's go through this thing from the beginning.

CSI ENHANCE!
Issler Dainze wrote:
Mittens, I've supported the right for folks to act out in Eve as a valid part of the "sandbox", but I can't support your recent actions.

At a minimum we need Mittens to apologize and admit he crossed the line with his behavior. I call to the other elected members of the CM7 join me in this demand!

If the CSM is remain a viable part of Eve we have to adhere to some code of conduct. This recent event is a black eye for the CSM and Eve in general.

OK so at 2012.03.26 21:46 we are after an apology! He must say he's sorry and then we can move forward. Also the ToS could use an update.

Issler Dainze wrote:
Actually I have said lots of stupid things while drunk. And when I sobered up and realized I made an asshat of myself I offered a sincere apology.
2012.03.26 23:23 And we are still looking for an Aplology! Why won't you say your are sorry!?!?!

While we are on the topic of Apologies there is this mess here.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29569

Issler Dainze wrote:
Have you stopped beating your wife in the wormholes you hate so much?

OMG Space Spouse Abuse! Should Issler lose her CSM chair for saying something outrageously offensive on a public forum???

Issler Dainze wrote:
People doing good things can loose their way and screw up. And when they do they need to "own it" as Mittens said repeatedly i the alliance panel.

Issler

No! Because she owned her mistakes and apologized! And The Mittanni would NEVER do that.....

Continued on page 14

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#253 - 2012-03-28 01:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
continued from page 13

....Until 2012.03.27 00:09
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=86980
OK it looks pretty sincere and heartfelt, or at least well written, he is space Satan after all, can't believe anything he says. Oh well it's an apology, and if you aren't going to believe this one, you aren't going to believe anything else he says either. Time to move on with our lives I guess.

Issler Dainze wrote:
Sad to see I was the only CSM 7 member to go on the record with my outrage at the incident.

We got what I believe is a sincere apology now the question I believe is before CSM 7, CCP and most importantly the players. "is that enough"?

Issler

No! Because owning your mistakes and "People doing good things can loose their way and screw up." is bullshit now! It's not enough! Also where is his long form birth certificate? THE PEOPLE WANT ANSWERS!

Also where is the rest of the CSM? In a secret closed doors meeting? Hung over on a plane ride back from Iceland that doesn't allow wireless internet? Who knows? Let's fire them too!

OK so during this entire 13 page mess you have been **** slinging pretty much everyone Mittens, the rest of the CSM, random posters. And it's not even internally consistent. An apology is a free pass for you but not someone else when being offensive. Wait until the CSM is hung over and on an airplane before criticizing them for being silent and secretive.

And what about The Wis, the guy at the heart of all this? How does he feel? Is he still around? Has anyone even checked up on him or told him what's going on? Out of everyone here cares enough about his well being to pop round and say hello?

Never thought I'd say this. But thank god for random EN24 reporters.
http://www.evenews24.com/2012/03/27/failing-in-so-many-ways-the-mittani-%E2%80%93-hero/

March 27th 21:10:18 A full day after your post. The Wis finally finds out what's going on.

Quote:

[21:10:18] Xeross155 > Heya
[21:10:22] The Wis > Hello
[21:10:29] Xeross155 > Getting swarmed with interviews I can imagine
[21:10:50] The Wis > No why?
[21:11:57] Xeross155 > With this BS and all http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/
[21:12:21] Xeross155 > Pretty sure the name Mittani called out was “The Wis”
[21:12:31] The Wis > Oh I will have to check that out.. What is going on?
[21:12:58] Xeross155 > You sent him a mail when you got scammed and your Mackinaws destroyed or smth
[21:13:41] Xeross155 > Or at least one of his alliance mates
[21:14:13] The Wis > Could have.. been a long time. Might have been when they had the safe mining offer when you guys were doing your anti ice thing.
[21:15:08] The Wis > I did have someone ask me if I was ok.. Becouse he said that I had killed myself afterwards and he thought it was funny.. I did not see it so I have no clue what was said.
[21:15:52] Xeross155 > Basically some idiots are all butthurt and are calling for him to step down from CSM and ****
[21:16:51] Xeross155 > Basically, enjoy your 5 minutes of fame, multiple gaming press websites are putting the story up
[21:16:58] Xeross155 > Leaving out your name though
[21:16:59] Xeross155 > one sec
[21:19:54] The Wis > Well I am not sure what is going on.. I know I have had some people say I should put a pentition in. Witch I have not. Since I have not seen the video or anything. But that would also explain why the goons are moving into my system now and starting
[21:19:57] The Wis > ganking here.
[21:24:54] Xeross155 > http://youtu.be/E7Ki91U-mBE?t=1h11m55s
[21:26:17] Xeross155 > That’s basically the snippet that people are upset about for some reason
[21:29:34] Xeross155 > Anyway, CCP is doing an internal audit and **** about it, 3 game news websites have reported it so far, basically tagging it cyber-bullying
[21:30:50] The Wis > Ok.. Well that is nice. Hmm.. wait.. If i do kill my self they might arrest him and prosicute him since he is in the US.. That would really be bad for him.
[21:31:01] The Wis > Just kidding of course but a thought.
[21:31:20] The Wis > Fly safe. I have real life stuff to do now.. ANd to watch for goons in system.. Fun Fun.


So yeah right from the start you were just interested in bashing the CSM. You didn't give a crap about the Wis enough to even make sure he is still alive. And on top of that how does this massive rant of yours even help him out anyway? By dragging this whole sordid affair throught he mud again? If anything seeing that he is still around, feeling better, and actually in good enough spirits to make light of the situation kind of hurts the credibility of your entire rant.

Would your little power play have been more effective if he had gotten more depressed, or gone to the hospital, or done something more drastic? Do his best interests really align with your best interests?

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Vorlain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2012-03-28 01:59:30 UTC
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term.


How is coming out to condemn something that need's condemning causing a **** storm? pretty sure Mittani created that don't you think? If you are saying you are going to make another CSM's life more difficult and block what they do in the CSM on the basis of coming out and condemning what happened then you don't deserve to be on the CSM.

You are there to represent us and have our interests at heart, not to be some upset fanboi. If you can't work for the betterment of eve you don't belong there. The CSM needs to make it clear it doesn't support what happened, and that's all Issy did.

Oh and if you can't work with them for saying it, I take it you won't work with Mittani for coming out and saying pretty much the same thing, pretty sure he didn't run his apology by you and got your permission before posting it. Or are you going to just ignore that and be a hypocrite?
Frying Doom
#255 - 2012-03-28 02:02:12 UTC
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term. You do realize that the election is over, and now is the time to work together for the good of the people that voted for us, not to try to stir up a shitstorm?

I don't think they will get anything done now in CSM7 no matter the out come of this anything done by CSM7 will be overshadowed by this. Like The Mittani was campaigning 12 months later on the Incarna "summer of rage" and riding his actions for more votes. So there will probably be comments of the CSM being a puppet if The Mittani is thrown out, or steps down or comments about "How many people did you have to get to kill themselves to do that" if he doesn't.

Oh and the shitstorm was already here before any CSM member reacted. But it is good to see the CSM playing duck and cover for a few days while this escalates rather than a decisive stand on the matter.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#256 - 2012-03-28 02:02:40 UTC
D Derp wrote:
Didn't get elected? Start whining and crying about how horrible The Other Guys are. It's a tactic that's been proven effective*


i still remember when Larkonis got CYBERBULLIED out of the CSM by Issler and his/her goons!
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#257 - 2012-03-28 02:06:17 UTC
Funkert wrote:
D Derp wrote:
Didn't get elected? Start whining and crying about how horrible The Other Guys are. It's a tactic that's been proven effective*


i still remember when Larkonis got CYBERBULLIED out of the CSM by Issler and his/her goons!


I wasn't going to post again but that was one of the funniest things I've ever read!! I have goons?? Lol

Uhm, it was days after the Larkgate thing before I even knew I was bumped up to an active member.

I'm going to try and go find my goons now..... wonder where I left them...

Issler
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#258 - 2012-03-28 02:09:54 UTC
Vorlain wrote:
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term.


How is coming out to condemn something that need's condemning causing a **** storm? pretty sure Mittani created that don't you think? If you are saying you are going to make another CSM's life more difficult and block what they do in the CSM on the basis of coming out and condemning what happened then you don't deserve to be on the CSM.

You are there to represent us and have our interests at heart, not to be some upset fanboi. If you can't work for the betterment of eve you don't belong there. The CSM needs to make it clear it doesn't support what happened, and that's all Issy did.

Oh and if you can't work with them for saying it, I take it you won't work with Mittani for coming out and saying pretty much the same thing, pretty sure he didn't run his apology by you and got your permission before posting it. Or are you going to just ignore that and be a hypocrite?


No idea who you are guy without an avatar but thats a good post and I'm happy to give you a support for it.
Completely agree.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

D Derp
Savannah Logistics
#259 - 2012-03-28 02:10:56 UTC
Vorlain wrote:
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term.


How is coming out to condemn something that need's condemning causing a **** storm? pretty sure Mittani created that don't you think? If you are saying you are going to make another CSM's life more difficult and block what they do in the CSM on the basis of coming out and condemning what happened then you don't deserve to be on the CSM.

You are there to represent us and have our interests at heart, not to be some upset fanboi. If you can't work for the betterment of eve you don't belong there. The CSM needs to make it clear it doesn't support what happened, and that's all Issy did.

Oh and if you can't work with them for saying it, I take it you won't work with Mittani for coming out and saying pretty much the same thing, pretty sure he didn't run his apology by you and got your permission before posting it. Or are you going to just ignore that and be a hypocrite?


Nice alt bro. Mind posting the same on your main?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#260 - 2012-03-28 02:11:41 UTC
D Derp wrote:
Vorlain wrote:
Two step wrote:
Wow, way to make absolutely sure that you will not get anything at all done during your CSM 7 term.


How is coming out to condemn something that need's condemning causing a **** storm? pretty sure Mittani created that don't you think? If you are saying you are going to make another CSM's life more difficult and block what they do in the CSM on the basis of coming out and condemning what happened then you don't deserve to be on the CSM.

You are there to represent us and have our interests at heart, not to be some upset fanboi. If you can't work for the betterment of eve you don't belong there. The CSM needs to make it clear it doesn't support what happened, and that's all Issy did.

Oh and if you can't work with them for saying it, I take it you won't work with Mittani for coming out and saying pretty much the same thing, pretty sure he didn't run his apology by you and got your permission before posting it. Or are you going to just ignore that and be a hypocrite?


Nice alt bro. Mind posting the same on your main?


He's probably worried that 10,000 goons will be ordered to troll him into suicide.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom