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Fanfest: Crimewatch

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#101 - 2012-03-22 21:00:26 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb.

I want to clarify here: when I'm racing another explorer in a Gurista Scout Outpost and he pops the tower, will I be able to steal the loot from the can at the risk of him engaging me?

Because if you break that mechanic, you've taken away something that was JUST FINE.




At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.

That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.

'Felony' level stuff has concord.

Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all.
If it would get Concord after you, it still will

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#102 - 2012-03-22 21:01:38 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb.

I want to clarify here: when I'm racing another explorer in a Gurista Scout Outpost and he pops the tower, will I be able to steal the loot from the can at the risk of him engaging me?

Because if you break that mechanic, you've taken away something that was JUST FINE.

And if someone wants to whine about how it's not fair that I took from "their" can, what about the fact that I did 90% of the damage in room 1 to unlock the gate and they just got lucky and landed the final blow on the tower?

There's a lot more to consider here than "that's my can because I shot that rat".

You can loot from the can but you will get the new medium security flag meaning any players can engage you, not just the owner of the can, if I understand correctly.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#103 - 2012-03-22 21:01:54 UTC
Geoscape wrote:
Did ccp mention anything about adding fleet boosters to killmails as assisting party?


Even better. They were talking about battle reports. It'll take a while as the backend logging needs done, but yes. Everything that affects the battle will be there. Booster, RR, all that good stuff.

And it should be available to all involved.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#104 - 2012-03-22 21:01:55 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I consistently get the impression that changes to highsec gameplay are made without anyone in the process having the foggiest idea about what actually happens in highsec.


^^This^^

Not least of all, those who are supposed to be senior devs?

Greyscale, do you even play this game? And if so, then do you understand at all what "sandbox MMO" really means?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#105 - 2012-03-22 21:06:27 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.

That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.

'Felony' level stuff has concord.

Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all.
If it would get Concord after you, it still will

So...good loot AND more chance of combat? Sign me up. I can evade the world for 15 minutes if I have to.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#106 - 2012-03-22 21:11:12 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.

That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.

'Felony' level stuff has concord.

Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all.
If it would get Concord after you, it still will

So...good loot AND more chance of combat? Sign me up. I can evade the world for 15 minutes if I have to.


Yes because noob cans have such good loot.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#107 - 2012-03-22 21:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.

But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this, being able to get yourself flagged with aggression to an entire system is basically the holy grail of griefing.
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#108 - 2012-03-22 21:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
Can you make sure that drones don't accidentally flag you against someone who is a 'suspect/criminal' nearby, even if they attack you?

Quote:

Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.

But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this.


"There are 'sploits, but I won't tell you what they are" ?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#109 - 2012-03-22 21:17:52 UTC
That's called setting your drones to passive.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#110 - 2012-03-22 21:18:00 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.

But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this.


What it's fixing is the hideous mess which is aggression flagging.

Specifically:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104420254081686601186/albums/5722733915682028897/5722734017708718338

It also allows for far simpler code. Which should help with lag issues.

The main downside I can see, is a reduction in Incursion bear tears, because they're less likely to pickup a GCC in a Logi chain.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#111 - 2012-03-22 21:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
That's called setting your drones to passive.


Yes, because missions and PvP should have the same settings. That's logical.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#112 - 2012-03-22 21:23:31 UTC
Shandir wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
That's called setting your drones to passive.


Yes, because missions and PvP should have the same settings. That's logical.

Heaven forfend that you should ever manually do anything while carebearing.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#113 - 2012-03-22 21:24:27 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The main downside I can see, is a reduction in Incursion bear tears, because they're less likely to pickup a GCC in a Logi chain.

CCP seems hell bent on keeping us from doing anything like that ever again. Oh well, we had two good runs of it :)

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#114 - 2012-03-22 21:32:03 UTC
Those safety switches, please make sure to place them so the can be accessed in space without blacking out the whole screen. That means don't put them under options but perhaps somewhere on the character sheet.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Adunh Slavy
#115 - 2012-03-22 21:33:04 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

Rant



Perhaps you've misunderstood. Turn the saftey off, and continue as normal. It just won't be a pop up. Instead you have to go into the esc menu and turn it off.

No more anoying AppGlobal Modal Windows - This is a good thing.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#116 - 2012-03-22 21:33:43 UTC
I don't see how the flagging changes can flipping at all. Especially in the belts. Unless flippers are raging because their risk free play-style will suddenly have risk involved.

It encourages more PvP, which is what EvE is centered around. HTFU
If you can't handle the possibility that someone other than the Retriever pilot might shoot back. HTFU

There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge.

If bringing more PvP on a wider scale into high-sec, and if reducing the situations in which Concord responds is "dumbing down" Eve, the biomass button is to the right of your portrait on the login screen. Feel free to use it.

Profit favors the prepared
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#117 - 2012-03-22 21:38:07 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
I don't see how the flagging changes can flipping at all. Especially in the belts. Unless flippers are raging because their risk free play-style will suddenly have risk involved.

It encourages more PvP, which is what EvE is centered around. HTFU
If you can't handle the possibility that someone other than the Retriever pilot might shoot back. HTFU

There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge.

If bringing more PvP on a wider scale into high-sec, and if reducing the situations in which Concord responds is "dumbing down" Eve, the biomass button is to the right of your portrait on the login screen. Feel free to use it.


This ^

...and in my humble experience the better kind of can flipping is ninja looting player wrecks in low sec. I think it's the most new player friendly and high paying job you can do. It's fun, profitable, and teaches you aggression mechanics. I agree with you completely Evei...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#118 - 2012-03-22 21:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Evei Shard wrote:
There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge.

You realise that miners can and fairly often do already do that in highsec, right? Oh wait, you're in an NPC corp so you wouldn't know that you get aggression to the entire corp when stealing.

They also aren't reducing the number of situations in which concord responds at all, I don't even know where you're getting that from.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#119 - 2012-03-22 21:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

Rant



Perhaps you've misunderstood. Turn the saftey off, and continue as normal. It just won't be a pop up. Instead you have to go into the esc menu and turn it off.

No more anoying AppGlobal Modal Windows - This is a good thing.



I hope you're right, mate.

No sarcasm, I'm dead-serious here:

I hope this is indeed, as you say, and I'm hugely misinterpreting this...

But the cynic in me insists otherwise, and it's being very insistent atm, if you get my drift. Not least of all because of all the carebear crying we've been seeing 'round these parts for...oooh, let's say the last 8-10 months. It would seem--again, I pray that I am wrong--that they've built up momentum.

This will prove EVE's undoing if CCP takes what they want to its logical end-point.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#120 - 2012-03-22 21:49:52 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Razin wrote:
What about killing newly created alts characters? Might need a limiter on killed char age also.


p.s. What's happening with delayed local?


If it becomes an issue, sure, but we're hoping that it'll be more trouble than it's worth to create a bunch of alts, have them drive their sec down and then kill them one by one.

CCP Greyscale, that not what people will do. What they will do is:

Have each corp member create just one or 2 alts, and all corp members take turns killing each others alts. That way the effort to create the alts is spread out over many people. Or;

People will make "Shoot us!" corps full of -10 pilots, and let you shoot them all for a fee. Or;

Two pirate corps will get together and take turns killing each other.

How to fix: Make ship value lost be a determining factor is sec status gain. Yes you could buy your way up, but with proper balancing, it will be expensive.

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