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Fanfest: Crimewatch

First post First post
Author
Adunh Slavy
#521 - 2012-03-24 15:54:53 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So can flip = flagged to everyone?

How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry?



Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Zircon Dasher
#522 - 2012-03-24 16:23:06 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So can flip = flagged to everyone?

How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry?



Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right?


eww. Why would I do that?

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#523 - 2012-03-24 17:38:12 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
So can flip = flagged to everyone?

How the hell am I supposed to web my freighter alt into warp without being shot at by every Tom,****,and Harry?



Same as today, your alt is in the same corp, right?


+ it's a game mechanic exploit.


Also:
-little pubbies that are risk averse and crying like little girls from the beginning of this thread, your tears are delicious.
-man up and, if you really like pvp as you all claim and no one believes, you just move to null/low.
-forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses?
Adunh Slavy
#524 - 2012-03-24 17:43:20 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:

+ it's a game mechanic exploit.



It's the at the undocking and using it as the agressor that it is an exploit.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Zircon Dasher
#525 - 2012-03-24 17:43:31 UTC
lol@ pubbies who think blowing up stuff in highsec is about the pvp.
It is just too profitable to pass up.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#526 - 2012-03-24 17:46:23 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses?

It's not a "noobs zone" while people can make many tens of millions of ISK per hour (once again, not even going to mention 200m/hour incursions).

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Prince Kobol
#527 - 2012-03-24 17:48:17 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:

-little pubbies that are risk averse and crying like little girls from the beginning of this thread, your tears are delicious.
-man up and, if you really like pvp as you all claim and no one believes, you just move to null/low.
-forget about high sec it's noobs zone, what are you still doing around there? -avoid losses?


Curious about something, am I to take it that you believe there should be no PvP in High Sec?

prolix travail
Blue Mountain Trails
#528 - 2012-03-24 18:29:24 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:


Curious about something, am I to take it that you believe there should be no PvP in High Sec?



Exactly this. EvE is about pvp anywhere, anytime, consenual or not. If that isn't a game you want to play then go elsewhere.
MissyDark
Carsultyal
#529 - 2012-03-24 18:48:43 UTC
What the hell? No, no, nooooo! Leave aggro mechanics alone!
Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#530 - 2012-03-24 20:44:33 UTC
Hisec exploration will be 100000% more fun if theft flags you to everyone! DO IT!
Brinxter
Bite Me inc
#531 - 2012-03-24 23:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Brinxter
Adunh Slavy wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:

Not so sure about consensual war decs, but the limited engagement / duel and flagging interference from others as a global suspect is the way to go, ship it.


Doesn't need to be consensual, just needs to be limited Smile



Agreed! The war dec talk addressed some of the concerns, including my self, had in that regard.

One thing that came up in the war dec presentation question was, Neut RR in war. Will that be flagged as "suspect" too? Please tell me it will be flagged as suspect! Smile From what I can surmise, it will be. Neut RR distorts the whole war in high sec game play in favor of the meta and mechanics abuse.



I just happen to have Greyscale cornered at FF and asked this exact question...

If two corps/alliances are at war and engaging eachother, some neutral douche warps in and reps one of the parties, he will inherit their agression timers and will also get the suspect flag
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#532 - 2012-03-25 02:27:36 UTC
Okay, now I am sold. I responded to the war dec changes thread earlier, very discouraged, but after reading about the rest of the changes to high sec, including the new can flipping rules, the aggression changes for logo ships, and the incentives to kill pirates wherever you see them, I am convinced that my previous reaction was wrong.

The proposed changes are a real step forward for new players. They will not be faced with overly complicated aggression rules in high sec. Pirates will have to be a bit more fearful coming into the safer part of space. Ganking will be harder but will still be possible, but players will be less likely to choose it as a career and if they do they will face more consequence in terms of sec status.

Seen in this light, the changes to the war dec system appear more livable entirely.

The new changes will give newbies a fighting chance in the game, and will make the job of teaching the aggression rules much simpler.

If this is true and new players do come to the game and get a chance to train up in a safer environment, it will make them more likely to stay in the game, will increase the numbers of players, and will help everybody in the long run.

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#533 - 2012-03-25 02:43:09 UTC
Brinxter wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:

Not so sure about consensual war decs, but the limited engagement / duel and flagging interference from others as a global suspect is the way to go, ship it.


Doesn't need to be consensual, just needs to be limited Smile



Agreed! The war dec talk addressed some of the concerns, including my self, had in that regard.

One thing that came up in the war dec presentation question was, Neut RR in war. Will that be flagged as "suspect" too? Please tell me it will be flagged as suspect! Smile From what I can surmise, it will be. Neut RR distorts the whole war in high sec game play in favor of the meta and mechanics abuse.



I just happen to have Greyscale cornered at FF and asked this exact question...

If two corps/alliances are at war and engaging eachother, some neutral douche warps in and reps one of the parties, he will inherit their agression timers and will also get the suspect flag


"Probably" Smile
Adunh Slavy
#534 - 2012-03-25 03:23:42 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

"Probably" Smile



Tease!

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#535 - 2012-03-25 04:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Seem like very good changes. I do think that preventing a player from defending himself against other players in any circumstances is a bad idea, but that seems to be off the table. Under no circumstances should one player be able to attack another with impunity that is enforced by game mechanics

This may have already been discussed, and so apologies in advance, but will a Suspect's corp/fleet members be able to return fire on someone who shoots the Suspect? Ninja fleets will probably just carry around remote-assist modules so that they can inherit the Suspect flag; forcing players to jump through hoops to acquire aggro doesn't seem like a good mechanic. And it might be good if prospective pirate-hunters had to worry about a Suspect's friends. At no point should the decision to open fire on a player's ship be trivial.

Second suggestion: make the Suspect flag reset every time someone shoots the Suspect or the Suspect shoots another player. This is to avoid situations where a pirate-hunter fleet lands on a Suspect only to find that half of them cannot engage the Suspect without getting Concorded.

Third suggestion: players flagged as Suspect should be subject to the same logoff mechanics as supercapital pilots. This is to prevent players who engage in criminal activity from simply logging off in space with impunity.

Fourth Suggestion: a ship whose maintenance bay is used by a Suspect should inherit the Suspect flag. This is to make swapping ships in an Orca and such somewhat more risky. However, with Suspect shootable by all of EVE, I don't think hotswapping in an Orca is a big issue.

Either way, look forward to finding out more, even if I don't live in high-sec anymore.
Unforgiven Tu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#536 - 2012-03-25 05:59:53 UTC
The old code of "dont fly what u cant afford to lose" would not apply to eve anymore. u have made 1 grave mistake with a previous update. have fun doing it again.
Msgerbs
The Ronin Wind
Khimi Harar
#537 - 2012-03-25 06:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Msgerbs
Kessiaan wrote:
I think it'll have just the opposite effect. Seems more like a disguised consensual pvp flag than anything else. I know everyone hates on the idea but I think may lead to a resurgence of solo pvp (and all the asshattery that goes along with it, ofc) in highsec.
I'm curious how you see making you globally aggressed in a system filled with people with big guns waiting to shoot you encourages solo pvp? You flip your alt's can, that wolf engages you. All's good. Then 2 other guys warp in, you can't preemptively shoot or jam them. You don't even know if they're there to shoot you or just there because it's highsec and there are people. They both shoot you. You die. They're both still completely safe from anybody else.

It's just like low/null, except the blobbers are literally untouchable instead of figuratively.

Oh, and non-resetting fixed timers are a VERY bad idea. There's a reason the mechanics work that way, don't change it please.
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
#538 - 2012-03-25 06:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius III
Not sure if this is covered yet, and 27 pages is a long read too long to find out, but:

The can aggro mechanic should be left alone as it is used by many people to get hisec fights 1v1. This is an integral part of Eve and I strongly urge you to leave it unchanged, OR make a nominal fine, say 1 M isk to have only the victim of the theft and his corp get aggression, and give an option to not pay and say "screw the police" and get aggression to everyone. Give the players a choice and dont take our ability to have agreed upon 1v1 fights in hisec.

I also would urge that you make theft aggress the not only the corp you stole from, but the players gang at that time and also their entire alliance. This moves towards what you are trying to achieve with the suspect flag, but does not impinge on other aspects of the game.

I recently participated in a roundtable discussion with the most experienced War deccers, Griefers, Can flippers, gankers, hooligans, ninja salvagers, awoxers etc. Many Eve luminaries participated:


Alekseyev Karrde of Noir., one of the most stable and longest-running merc corps of all time
Cannibal Kane, can flipper, mercenary, and representative of the independent solo highsec pvper
Lithalnas, director of Privateers, the group that was so OP at one point that CCP had to redesign the wardec system around their tactics
Iam Widdershins of PRONS, known for their skill and prowess in nearly every aspect of Eve
Istyn of Tactical Knightmare (also representing Suddenly Ninjas)
Psychotic Monk (myself), CEO of The Skunkworks, known for their work in killing ignorant incursion runners and long-time wardeccers.
ToxicOz, CEO of Double Tap, who are one of the most effective merc corps in highsec today.
TS5P, director of The Orphanage, which needs no introduction

The discussion is on soundcloud, found here

Some of it was covered just after this meeting at fanfest and some of what was talked about is redundant but getting these guys together was productive and they truly represent the hisec combat playerbase

Hmmm

Xinshon Xai
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#539 - 2012-03-25 08:01:18 UTC
Hopefully Devs will take a close look before they do this suspect thing.
Sol Tertia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2012-03-25 09:09:22 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Not sure if this is covered yet, and 27 pages is a long read too long to find out, but:

The can aggro mechanic should be left alone as it is used by many people to get hisec fights 1v1. This is an integral part of Eve and I strongly urge you to leave it unchanged, OR make a nominal fine, say 1 M isk to have only the victim of the theft and his corp get aggression, and give an option to not pay and say "screw the police" and get aggression to everyone. Give the players a choice and dont take our ability to have agreed upon 1v1 fights in hisec.

That would result in no change to the current status quo, 1 million is a drop in the ocean and everyone would just pay. The illusion of choice is not the same as real choice.