EVE General Discussion

There is a test server (Sisi) where you can mine in totally empty systems to your heart's content and nobody will shoot, canflip or otherwise harass you. If that's what you really want then it's already there.

If miners have such a problem with losing their multi-hundred million vessels, and it's a 'problem' they cannot anchor GSC in the highest security space, how about we just set a limit on where mining vessels can mine.

0.9-1.0 mining frigates and rookie vessels
0.7-0.8 mining cruisers, frigates and rookie vessels
0.5-0.6 mining barges, cruisers, frigates and rookie vessels
low + null - anything

I mean, it's a "problem" for them they can't mine in peace/without interruption, and it's a "problem" to anchor cans, it's a "problem" to use lower highsec, it's a "problem" their extremely powerful endgame mining vessels with big cargo have to warp to stations when they are full (if they jetcan), it's a "problem" they have to bring friends in orca and/or haulers, etc.

I seem to remember when miners thought it was a problem that I stole from their can in highsec back in the day, so CCP gave them the right to attack me when I stole. They already had their boost/"fix" then.

I understand you're looking at this from a coding point of view, but could you also keep in mind that the changes you are making will affect a core part of EvE online: player responsibilty.

Individuals and corps have recourses against thieves, as they are flagged and can be shot. There are ways of preventing theft also, and If they choose to ignore the use of secured cans, friends in haulers and other such things there should be risks associated with that choice.

High-security space is a place for new players to learn about EvE, and pvp in whatever form is part of that, you could say the fundamental element which seems to have been missed by what some people call 'carebears'.

The most obvious proposal that goes against this nature is a suspect being flagged to everyone, for stealing from one person/corp. Are you saying that anything in wrecks or cans is the personal property of everyone? Concord isn't there to enforce socially acceptable behavior but to blow up those who unlawfully blow up someone else. Everything else is the responsibility of the players. Also why should the suspect be penalized for defending themselves from any consensual pvp that comes from that flag? the other guy has the choice to shoot, he isn't forced.

This proposed flagging game mechanic while easier for you to code will reduce pvp outside of wardecs, which at present can be avoided completely anyway, and so drastically reducing all pvp in highsec. This kind of environment wouldn't be a fair reflection for new players of EvE as it stands now. Can you tell me, us (those who think this way) what you are doing with the sandbox of new eden, will the ability to pvp wherever and whenever be protected? or are you going to eventually dictate where it's allowed to happen?

Which was your subjective interpretation of what was said around a table and not put in writing... Unlike here. I watched the Presentation myself and quite frankly theres still nothing that has been said that has suggested eve will be broken beyond repair and the sandbox has all of a sudden become WoW (some of you should actually play wow first before comparing the two games)

Right now the entire can flipping mechanic is totally unbalanced as there are little to no consequences for the perps and very serious implications for the people getting flipped.

This imo is just a very welcome balance, action=consequence = far more pvp options = win.

If you don't like it, don't flip the switch, the choice will always be yours.

mmm.... Reckon that depends on how it is done.

In extreme cases where douchebags flip a can, pull aggro, have all their douche friends warp in and start RRing, and then Orcaswap to a combat ship, yeah... yeah that is unbalanced.

But there is also the situation where the guy flips the can, and then the victim and his entire corp stand-up to the flipper and deliver a beatdown. Which tends to be a relatively fair consequence.

Might I suggest that the bonus is "halved" per account that you get a kill on? Not that ANYONE would grind themselves to -10 on a new char quickly, then pod, recycle character, repeat.

Indeed. Nor would an entire corp/alliance dedicated to suicide ganking all create -10 alts and then take turns popping each alt til their sec status is fixed. That simply would not happen in our EvE.

No, I think the subtext of what he is saying is that he is intrinsically a better player and PvPer cuz he doesn't can-flip. Which is a cool opinion and all. Hell, maybe he is right. *shrug*

I enjoy your semi-RP responses, they are amusing. They however are not very relevant to a mechanics discussion. The next time an NPC complains about me looting his wreck, I will send him to you so that you can be his lawyer. But make sure he has filed a petition with a GM prior to bothering the NPC judges.

Because it fundamentally breaks the game in a number of ways and will be abused to hell and back.

No. It was his explicit and repeated explanation and clarification of what he was saying. If you want to reject that then nothing he said in the presentation you saw has any value whatsoever either.

Hmmmm, maybe this should tell you something...

To paraphrase an earlier poster, everyone in EVE is risk-averse and everyone in EVE is a hypocrite.

You know, I find it somewhat amusing that people are focusing on the cans. Miners aren't the only ones affected by this, believe it or not.

As a mission runner, for example, I get to deal with ninja looters who can just steal all the tags from my wrecks freely (that's millions of isk per mission for no real effort, mind) and there's simply no way I can stop them from doing so, and since they're always in a speedy frigate it's pretty much impossible to gank them in the first place. This is risk-free thievery, and it sucks. It really, really sucks.

I'm sure this will prompt the inevitable anti-carebear comments, but seriously? Should people be able to just steal from mission wrecks without consequence like that? Millions and millions of isk, just like that? No effort at all? How does that make any bloody sense!?

Mind you, this goes hand-in-hand with the problem that mission fits are completely incompatible with PvP. If they could fix that, I wouldn't be concerned about this. As it is, it's just stupidly one-sided. I'll also note that this is obviously not so much of a problem outside the most crowded mission hubs, but it is still a glaring logical error that can adversely affect the income of dedicated mission runners. I hear people harping about "risk vs. reward" all the time, but where's the risk in going in a tiny frigate and speeding around grabbing tags from wrecks? That's almost no risk at all (when the mission runner had to tank and kill those ships in the first place, while also taking a standing hit with the faction they're killing) with a HUGE reward as tags are worth a lot in level 4 missions.

So yes, I am in favor of wreck-stealing being highly and obviously illegal. Let's face it, it makes little difference even as proposed since they're running in tiny frigates anyway, but at least there's a chance someone will catch the bastard before they sneak away to sell their stolen goods.

(Edit: I am open to the possibility that can-flipping can be separate from wreck-stealing in their legal consequences - however, that just makes things more complicated than they already are, which is what CCP is trying to avoid in the first place. YMMV.)

Annnnd let the anti-carebear rebuttals begin!