EVE General Discussion

Nice write up!

But why is this escalation a problem? There would definitively be times where this might escalate further than you thought and result in lots of wrecks. But that is just fun right? That is what we want.

If the timer is short (say 5 min) this would resolve itself rather quickly too.

It just makes a lot of sense and no-one would be caught in this mess without actually committing an agressive act in highsec anyway. You have to actually opt-in. And everyone should know that shooting at someone is dangerous and may lead to an unexpected situation and a loss of a ship.

I like it.

It's an interesting system on paper, but when you think about it, it doesn't make any sense. First of all, if we take this whole white-knight thing into account, then the vigilante who comes to the miner's aid shouldn't be flagged to anyone when he interferes on behalf of the miner. It's like he's punishing a criminal, but in doing so becomes a criminal himself, and the friends of the original criminals are now white knights punishing the criminal who is also a vigilante, but in doing so they also become criminals, etc etc.

And now you have 40 dead people just because some guy in a Rifter stole 120 units of Veldspar from a bot. They might as well call this game Halmet Online if this is how it's going to be.

Yep, that's the general principle on present-day planet Earth. Why should it be unreasonable in a far-distant far-future galaxy?

From what I gather, that's not quite what will happen. I am assuming the round table reports and suggested course of action is what will be done, so I could be wrong too.

This is the walk through as best I can tell, and perhaps some wishful thinking ...

Jim finds a miner, Jim flips the miner's can.
Everyone can shoot Jim
BoobyNoob Boots tries to shoot Jim. Booby gets a message "you're a noob, turn off the safety"
Meanwhile Galahad on his white horse comes along and takes a shot at Jim.
Jim can shoot at Galahad, but now takes a sec penalty. (Good that Jim can shoot, but bad idea Jim has to take a sec hit IMO)
Jim is still "Suspect" to everyone, but Jim and Galahad are now in "duel", meaning, anyone who reps either of them will also pick up the "suspect" flag.

Because even today's moral codes would be entirely esoteric to people who lived just five decades ago in the same country. To claim that morality doesn't change much tens of thousands of years into the future and millions of light years away quite possibly makes you dumber than our Glorious CCP Overlords (all hail Glorious CCP Overlords, I beg forgiveness for my insolence, all hail Glorious CCP Overlords).

Be interesting to see the full details. But you have to remember guys CCP are trying to bring in new players as well as fulfill the needs of the older players. Being constantlyu ganked and griefed by vets that cant pvp proper is going to lose them valuable players for the future, hence severely effecting retention.

There is low sec and nullsec (yes 2 massivee areas of eve) for you to pvp in. Get some balls and go there, instead of being lame and getting easy kills in empire on poor noobies.

Oh for the record i am bitter vet... so before you start crying poor noob player,

I really don't see the logical problem to the issue.

People want to see in the logic either an inability to defend, without Concord taking over, which seems an unfair overkill for the task.

Or they want to see a domino effect of "suspect" status being transfered. Which could be interesting.

What about the other logical argument, that only the person who actually commits the crime/missdemenor and gets flagged as a suspect is the only one who actually attains this status, unless someone helps the "suspect" of course.

As a result if anyone attacks a suspect to enact white knighting, then why not simply allow the "suspect" to have clear defence to aggress that person without Concord intervention.

i.e.:

Can flipper flips can > Suspect1

WK1 aggresses Suspect1.

Suspect1 can now aggress WK1.

WK2 aggresses Suspect1.

Suspect1 can now aggress WK2.

RR heals Suspect1 > Suspect2 ... treated seperatley but now open to attack by WKs or Suspects.

In this sense only those who deliberatley attack a suspect can be aggressed by that suspect but they dont become suspects themselves.

In this sense the Suspect or can flipper, chooses his battlefield carefully and likley wont be agressed unless there is a protective force already there or one close by to intervene, or the miner has to reship to do so personally.

The only potential disparity is the WK's can be RR'd without becoming suspects. But even their aggressions can be tied into each WK and their associated suspect(s) if needs be.

Of course how much this complicates what is meant to be a more simplified model is unclear I guess. But it is certainly a possibility in terms of no Concord or no cascade outcome? Unless I missed something.

The best alternative with a completely "suspect" model would be to allow it to cascade I guess. This would be preferable to a Concord intervention that as a result I don't think is intended for this category. That is why can flipping is labelled in the missdemeanor category as opposed to GCC.

People keep saying this but what I want to know is are those new players going to stick around long term when level 4 missions start to pall and they can't sell what they manufacture because nobody is blowing ships up in high sec anymore? Ia a player who quits because he got ganked a few times really the type of player that will enjoy Eve long term?

Oh and for the record I am a noob player (five months still feels noobish to me) and one of the things that attracted me to this game is that it seemed like one that could keep me entertained for years just by virtue of the fact that it has complicated mechanics and a lot of people who would like to ruin my day.

Maybe you should take is post more like a proposal. Sometimes devs happen do read some posts. I'm totally against the option of fighting someone who can't fight back. if i decide to protect my can (attack the flipper) it should result in a "normal" fight. The exception that anyone can join this fight (hole alliance not only just the corp the conti was from) sounds like a good improvement.

If they can't fight back the only thing that will happen is that they use noob ships to do it and continue their business without real fights just to annoy miners and co.

Uh.... wow. Most of the stuff in the Crimewatch presentation was very nice, and I can understand the desire to simplify the aggression scheme (both conceptually and in terms of server load), but I have to echo the concerns expressed regarding a Suspect being shot by an Innocent player in highsec:

There must never be a situation in which one player can shoot another who is not allowed to respond in kind.