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Bump Tremor

Writing Memoirs

Likes received: 23

#281 - 2012-03-23 06:31:56 UTC

After reading all the posts up to where i posted thishttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=978520#post978520

and reading everything from there until here - I have now read every post in this thread and the last five pages are the same thing about 4 times. The same people are saying the same thing over and over again - the only thing is the tears get bigger.

I like the idea of the wailing about not being able to defend yourself without a small sec hit when you are attacked by someone.

uh... that person would not be shooting you if you had not stolen from them

You stole

You got shot

You now move from being a simple thief to using deadly force related to the commision of a crime and you get a minor sec hit.

Do that is real life and your jail sentence in most US states usually gets doubled and if you kill the person you stole from, then you are guilty of first degree murder - meaning it is premeditated because you killed someone in the commision of a robbery you decided to do. Yes - actions have consequences.

Every decision has consequences. Your decision to steal starts the whole thing - you are the one who initiates the whole thing. If you don't want it happen, don't initiate it.

Just like when I accept a mission and I know i will take sec hit from wherever the rats come from to break the laws of where I am. I have to decide if I want to take that sec hit to go and kill a make believe group of pixels who will never quit the game and don't pay a sub. I dunno - maybe the equal rights for NPCs movement has started. Wonder if they will somehow elect a CSM? Will they be able to petition? Will they have a Fan Fest?

These are some big tears!!! You guys think only carebears whine and cry - but the blubbering here is in biblical proportions.

Farm town is looking for players who don't want to be held responsible for their actions.

Go ahead and quote me and argue with me, but I'm going back to my fleet right now and I could really care less how much stupidity you want to get involved with. you are just going to have to do it without me. have fun!

Liang Nuren

No Salvation

Divine Damnation

Likes received: 4,453

#282 - 2012-03-23 06:32:33 UTC

Grumpy Owly wrote:

Liang Nuren wrote:

Grumpy Owly wrote:

No i think you are simply putting something there that doesn't exist, because "you" want it to be

Heh, my initial post in this thread was asking why everyone was so bent out of shape. Being able to can flip one guy and gain aggression to all of Eve would be ******* epic - almost amazing enough to rat my sec status back up for. It wasn't until I went and read what Greyscale said (both directly and at the round table) that I began to say... "Umm, WTF?"

-Liang

Meaningless without CCP coroborated evidence. Merely trying to push the same argument through.

You obviously haven't anything to contribute to the discussion, because there IS CCP corroborated evidence in the form of a direct post in his own words and multiple players reporting his words at the round table. I'm not going to respond to you anymore because your posts are blocked.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Adunh Slavy

Likes received: 1,639

#283 - 2012-03-23 06:33:15 UTC

Harrigan VonStudly wrote:

Petty theft being met with deadly force from everyone, people who aren't even involved in the least otherwise, and the right to fight back being removed is about as ******* dumb as it gets.

It's pretty smart. Puts the law in the hands of the players at large, not those who can best abuse the mechanics.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

EnslaverOfMinmatar

You gonna get aped

Likes received: 67

#284 - 2012-03-23 06:39:51 UTC | Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar

Tarsas Phage wrote:

Here's the kicker - going into this preso, CCP Greyscale said that once Player A gets aggressed by Players C-Z, Player A will not be allowed to shoot his aggressors back. Yes, this is basically making anyone with a mere Suspect flag the equivalent of GCC, just without the sec drop and CONCORD spawn. Many people in the audience, including myself, collectively WTF'd and suggested that he's off his rocker... and he seemed a bit surprised at this reaction.

/T

Is there a recording of this? I wanna see his expression when that happened. LOL

Getting aggro to everyone by looting a can is irrelevant. I loot cans from up to 7 different corps to get a fight and I get shot at like only 1 out of 20 times.

Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07

Destiny Corrupted

Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company

Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club

Likes received: 2,930

#285 - 2012-03-23 06:45:26 UTC

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Harrigan VonStudly wrote:

Petty theft being met with deadly force from everyone, people who aren't even involved in the least otherwise, and the right to fight back being removed is about as ******* dumb as it gets.

It's pretty smart. Puts the law in the hands of the players at large, not those who can best abuse the mechanics.

If you want to go in this direction, I'll oblige.

Launching cans is abandonment, no different from throwing an empty cup out into the highway. High-sec is empire space; it doesn't belong to the pod-pilot launching the can. Therefore, all cans should be considered garbage. Unless of course the pilot jettisoning a can buys licenses from the empires that specifically allow him to secure his jettisoned property. CCP can decide what the fee should be, but I propose a simple X ISK per Y cubic meters system.

Oh, and in line with these rules, all NPC cans belong strictly to the NPC faction they originated from. Anyone taking from NPC cans should be subject to the same "suspicion" flag. Property rules are property rules, after all.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Grumpy Owly

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 699

#286 - 2012-03-23 06:45:32 UTC

Liang Nuren wrote:

Grumpy Owly wrote:

Liang Nuren wrote:

Grumpy Owly wrote:

No i think you are simply putting something there that doesn't exist, because "you" want it to be

Meaningless without CCP coroborated evidence. Merely trying to push the same argument through.

No worries, I have sent a request to CCP Greyscale via eve mail to hopefully clarify the point as to wether CCP would create a situation in EvE where you would be unable to explicitily defend yourself through Crimewatch mechanics. (Not including safeties which you can turn off). Better than going round in circles on it.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling

Space Mermaids 870
Ocih Space Mermaids Likes received: 870	#287 - 2012-03-23 06:48:51 UTC 3 Stealing in EVE was never about theft. It was about drawing aggro and everyone knows it. The new mechanics don't allow the criminal to cherry pick thier aggro. Cry moar.

Destiny Corrupted

Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company

Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club

Likes received: 2,930

#288 - 2012-03-23 06:53:31 UTC

Ocih wrote:

Stealing in EVE was never about theft. It was about drawing aggro and everyone knows it. The new mechanics don't allow the criminal to cherry pick thier aggro.

Cry moar.

The old mechanics don't allow anti-theft aggressors to be immune from counterattack.

Cry less.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Xorv

Questionable Acquisitions

Likes received: 466

#289 - 2012-03-23 06:54:00 UTC

Tarsas Phage wrote:

Yes this is confirmation that many CCP devs really don't seem to have a clue what they're doing design wise. The Crimewatch presentation has already dampened the flames of Inferno, soon we'll see if their Wardec ideas smother the flames entirely.

Thanks for posting that Tarsas.

State War Academy Caldari State 609
knobber Jobbler State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 609	#290 - 2012-03-23 06:54:07 UTC 1 Liang Nuren wrote: He believes players should be able to kill PVP flagged players without PVP flagging themselves. Confirming Greyscale has no idea about game design...again. Greyscale is like CCP's self flagination device. When ever they want abuse, they tell him to come up with an idea and make it public.

Mea Culpa. Shadow Cartel 4,407
Roime Mea Culpa. Shadow Cartel Likes received: 4,407	#291 - 2012-03-23 06:57:18 UTC 2 So shortly CCP is planning changes that will: 1) make hisec safer for new players and carebears 2) allow more and more realistic PVP for those who want it in hisec sounds like win .

Thryson

Riemannian Manifold Torus

Likes received: 25

#292 - 2012-03-23 06:58:48 UTC

Thabiso wrote:

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Pak Narhoo wrote:

Just know it's still on paper. Nothing hard, nothing coded. Can go anyway from here.

Like a good point: friendly can flipping to have a 1 on 1 fight is out the window with these presumed changes.

Oh, I'm by no means jumping to conclusions; I know these things aren't set in stone. However, if a change like this is even on the table, it has to be fought tooth and nail for the sake of this game's integrity.

If can-flipping is just an "example," think of how many other "suspect" actions might result in this type of flag:

- Scanning someone's ship/cargo
- Trying to access someone's secure container
- Shooting an NPC that's part of someone else's mission
- Why not just go ahead and say it: locking someone without their permission

If you start going through my backpack on the street to see if anything was worth stealing, I guarentee you there will be repercussions or if I catch you stabbing the tire on my bike there will be consequences.

Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.

What are you like six years old, bike, backpack ill just stab you instead of your tire and use it as the get away vecichle

Vladimir Norkoff

Income Redistribution Service

Likes received: 366

#293 - 2012-03-23 07:06:54 UTC

.... Wow. That just sucks.

There goes one of my favorite pastimes. Flipping a can and fighting an entire corp, win or lose.

Under this new plan, it's flip a can. Fight all of local. And if somehow I win (which is unlikely), I'm gonna be -5 and Concord will come kill me anyway. Greeeaatttt.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this is. To coddle hi-sec players even more? To push players into lowsec? To destroy the last vestiges of small scale PvP? Wish we could get an explanation on that. (Or have they already given one and I missed it?)

Xorv

Questionable Acquisitions

Likes received: 466

#294 - 2012-03-23 07:10:58 UTC

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

The point I tried to make is that when carebears spit drivel like "now everyone will have consequences for their actions, they mean that everyone but themselves will have consequences for their actions. So far, I have yet to see what consequences the missioners and miners have for the choices they make, aside from the varying amounts of money they receive from their choices of what rats to shoot and what rocks to mine.

If I'm going to be penalized for even looking at these people funny, then they should be penalized for the veritable crimes against humanity they commit each time they warp to a deadspace or an asteroid belt.

I don't care how CCP does it. Let players join pirate factions for all I care, as long as they get a free pass on anyone who shoots one of those factions' NPCs. CONCORD doesn't shoot Serpentis rats, so this system would be completely acceptable to all mission runners.
[...]
Exactly. I fail to see why performing a non-hostile action against a pod-pilot should be treated with more hostility than a hostile action against a non-pod-pilot NPC entity. Both are part of the EVE universe. For example, why should a pod-pilot who runs missions for the Gallente Navy be flagged to everyone after stealing a can from a pod-pilot who runs missions for the Caldari Navy, but the pod-pilot who runs missions for the Caldari Navy not be flagged to everyone after shooting a non-pod-pilot ship that belongs to the Gallente Navy?

This 1000 times!!

Not only is Sandbox PvP being shat on, so too is Roleplaying and game immersion. Basically everything that makes EVE or any Sandbox MMORPG interesting, dynamic, and immersive is piece by piece being sucked out to provide safe predictable Themepark rides. Instead they should be doing exactly as you suggest and making ALL player actions and choices have meaningful consequences and give us a real game world to immerse ourselves in.

Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11,585
Andski Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 11,585	#295 - 2012-03-23 07:24:34 UTC \| Edited by: Andski all of you are dumb stop talking about can flipping being "risk-free" when you want a safer hisec Twitter: @EVEAndski "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#296 - 2012-03-23 07:27:46 UTC

Andski wrote:

Anybody who says that this is the answer to the "risk-averse" playstyle that is ninja-looting is completely overlooking the fact that this creates a risk-averse playstyle based around shooting ninja looters without any risk of retaliation.

just dropping this here again for emphasis

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Ocih

Space Mermaids

Likes received: 870

#297 - 2012-03-23 07:33:13 UTC

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Ocih wrote:

Stealing in EVE was never about theft. It was about drawing aggro and everyone knows it. The new mechanics don't allow the criminal to cherry pick thier aggro.

Cry moar.

The old mechanics don't allow anti-theft aggressors to be immune from counterattack.

Cry less.

LOL, you PvP in High Sec?

Here have some more crow sammich. You look hungry.

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#298 - 2012-03-23 07:35:24 UTC | Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha

Xorv wrote:

Sandbox PvP, Roleplaying and Game Immersion. Big words for flipping a newb can.

Till yesterday you could p!ss in someone else's sandbox from upstairs and they'd only see yellow rain.

Tomorrow you will wade thru your own yellow rain in the same sandbox.

Edit: about real game world and choices: in the real world if you want to join the Foreign Legion or be a well paid mercenary you will get the pay and the consequences.
If you want to be a pizza delivery boy you will get another pay and the consequences of that.
If you want to be a boureau clerk you will get other consequences than getting a grenade in your eyes in Nigeria.

So, in EvE if you want to be a burger flipper you get to take a grenade in your eye in Nigeria and call it meaningful, immersion and consequences?

Nope. In EvE you can be an industrialist and earn money by making stuff never fighting anyone but you'll compete vs other industrialists. You can be a trader and never leave a station and never face any consequence other than losing some money to a bad trade.
You can be a miner and have to compete with bots, other miners, the market ups and downs, train for crap skills that give no combat worthiness, get the lowest pay of all and... MUST FACE MOAR consequences and definitely get a grenade in the eye in Nigeria.

Something does not sound allright.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Destiny Corrupted

Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company

Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club

Likes received: 2,930

#299 - 2012-03-23 07:52:30 UTC | Edited by: Destiny Corrupted

EVE isn't the real world. It is a game set 20,000 years into the future, in another galaxy, populated by human descendants who not only don't remember what 21st century Earth morality is, but don't even have stone tablet records of what Earth was like.

Though it seems they're fully aware of the function of Nigerian scams, and, apparently, Nigerian infantry combat doctrine.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 195
Pheusia Vanishing Point. The Initiative. Likes received: 195	#300 - 2012-03-23 07:53:06 UTC CCP sure must love suicide ganking is all I can say. You know, since they're making every other kind of PvP in hi-sec effectively equivalent to it.