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Incoming titan adjustments

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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1801 - 2012-03-14 19:38:21 UTC
FeLiZk wrote:
On a side note I think it is so funny Goons are complaining about being blobbed, what is not funny is CCP is listening.

Change Titans by all means but don't do it for them. And don't rush it for them.

They are doing it for you, you fool.

We already have one of the largest supercapital fleets in the game and would be blapping the merry hell out of you were you not in one TIDi'd siege cycle range of the largest and fourth largest supercap fleets in ≡v≡. Try to understand that your inability to restrain yourselves from slaughtering little ships is but a raindrop in the sea of despair that Goonswarm will drown the game in when WE can do it with no risk. You think you are griefers; as usual we were late to the party, but by god you have no conception of the grief we will create with our power unchecked.

Thank CCP for saving you.

From us.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1802 - 2012-03-14 19:38:38 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
BioZvin wrote:


If it really is for one thing only, I was never told this. DD to kill all sub caps was first incarnation.. even thou you are very happy to say this all the time. Make us able to dock the things so we can wait out this horrible nurf in stations. Would you have us stuck in ships that can be used 1 time every month if we are very lucky ? Pretty sure someone said this with Supercarriers also...


Ever consider we wouldn't be at this place if some titan pilots didn't rub everybody's nose so into the problem that they were forced to act? Titans one shotting dictors isn't a titan playing a role, it's a titan playing EVERY role.

https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625985
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625987

See? It's you. You are the problem. You caused this.



I'm just going to go ahead and bring this back to the current page. It's a good post.

Don't forget who's really at fault here. It's these people, blapping dictors and frigates and gloating about it, then trying to play the innocent when they're finally called on the carpet for their misbehavior.

Oh, sure, the Titan pilots are the victims.

~hi~
Yasuhiro Shoe
Perkone
Caldari State
#1803 - 2012-03-14 19:40:48 UTC
Hungry Ghost wrote:
CCP before going forward with that decision - did you actually consider that atm there is 2 major conflicts going on in 0.0. First one is CFC Vs Raiden&Co, second is southern alliances Vs Legion of Death&friends. In both cases one side heavily relied on titans, while the other used them rarely, if at all. As far as i can tell both conflicts currently going in favor of the side, that do not use titans, but can field more ppl.
You are proposing balance change that will further shift balance of power in favor of the winning side. Did you notice, what majority of people praising you for this change got goonswarm or aligned ticker? Must look really strange to someone without interest in 0.0 politics


Making changes with the intention of messing with specific in-game conflicts would be a break of trust.
So CCP literally has to disregard this political perspective, and focus on the game mechanics themselves.

I do not think the impact of this nerf will be as large as you imply. Tracking titans will still own subcaps, hopefully their impact will be lessened. Everyone should assume more drastic changes will come in time, further nudging alliances into a model where Titans are the strategic cornerstone of a composite fleet and not the main ship of the line. Do not be surprised when those changes happen, just like you shouldn't be surprised by the current proposal, everyone knew it was coming.

Fixing broken mechanics in the sandbox helps everyone have more fun in the long run. Short term, I suppose it might hurt a few entities that rely solely on supercap deployment, but I rest easy in the knowledge it's well deserved considering how much supers have been exploited until now.
Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1804 - 2012-03-14 19:43:01 UTC
Another worthwhile point to make in this discussion is the concept that there is no counter to large numbers of sub caps, and that dropping Titans to destroy the sub capital fleet is the only way to deal with superior numbers. This argument ignores a few points, mainly the concept of bombers, counter-compositions, and reinforcements. CFC uses at least 5 major fleet compositions, which are often mixed depending on the scenario. Each of these contains a few main ship types, as well as a significant number of support ships to add robust roles to the fleet, and each doctrine is countered by a different sub capital doctrine which we have seen our enemies field.

Every single one of these doctrines does not have an answer for 20+ titans being dropped on it. These dropped titans don't act as support for fleets when dropped, they simply kill everything on the field which is present where they are dropped. These titans can only held down by dictors and hictors, or in the case of a low sec engagement, only scripted hictors. Once these ships, which titans are perfectly able to kill, are dead, there is no risk left to the engagement.

This has been seen repeatedly, over and over. This is why super caps are being changed.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1805 - 2012-03-14 19:44:04 UTC
Daiony wrote:

Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.


There are Titan pilots who misbehaved and brought this on themselves, but had the guts to post with their mains. Then there are the Titan pilots like you, who also helped bring this about, yet are so ashamed that they hide behind NPC alts.

Either way, it's your fault this has happened, but the Titan pilots who post with their mains at least have some pride. And a spine.

~hi~
CaldariCitizen 20111026
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1806 - 2012-03-14 19:45:53 UTC
The mechanics were broken and obviously abused. Starting (but not yet) to be fixed.

What happened was the same with smokers who just couldn't manage to be educated enough to NOT smoke when other people were eating or didn't want their crap. They got nerfed. Then its tears "oh we is so oppressed!"

But hey, this is good for you guys. Now you get to prove you're really good, if you can.
FeLiZk
Loot Industries
#1807 - 2012-03-14 19:47:17 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
They hide these behind NPC alts because they don't dare show their faces; they know they have abused a broken mechanic and are unwilling to own up to their misdeeds. Their altposting is a scarlet letter of their shame, an admission of guilt.

They can't accept adult responsibility; they threw their toys around, misbehaved, and now their toys are being taken away. Alas!


Who is this you are saying is hiding, I see quite a few people posting with their mains, and can't you have an opinion if your not part of 0.0. Then remove a big portion of your 350000, and then Titans are no longer 0.02% or whatever you said they where.

As far as I am informed, you have more then once said you where going to use your position to destroy your enemy's so I give next to nothing for you opinion. And the timing and manner of this proves it congrats. Would almost say well played.
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1808 - 2012-03-14 19:47:47 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
Another worthwhile point to make in this discussion is the concept that there is no counter to large numbers of sub caps, and that dropping Titans to destroy the sub capital fleet is the only way to deal with superior numbers. This argument ignores a few points, mainly the concept of bombers, counter-compositions, and reinforcements. CFC uses at least 5 major fleet compositions, which are often mixed depending on the scenario. Each of these contains a few main ship types, as well as a significant number of support ships to add robust roles to the fleet, and each doctrine is countered by a different sub capital doctrine which we have seen our enemies field.

Every single one of these doctrines does not have an answer for 20+ titans being dropped on it. These dropped titans don't act as support for fleets when dropped, they simply kill everything on the field which is present where they are dropped. These titans can only held down by dictors and hictors, or in the case of a low sec engagement, only scripted hictors. Once these ships, which titans are perfectly able to kill, are dead, there is no risk left to the engagement.

This has been seen repeatedly, over and over. This is why super caps are being changed.


The good old fashion game of rock, paper, scissors, dynamite.
Daiony
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1809 - 2012-03-14 19:49:36 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Daiony wrote:

Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.


There are Titan pilots who misbehaved and brought this on themselves, but had the guts to post with their mains. Then there are the Titan pilots like you, who also helped bring this about, yet are so ashamed that they hide behind NPC alts.

Either way, it's your fault this has happened, but the Titan pilots who post with their mains at least have some pride. And a spine.



Yeah, you said that a few times now, doesn't make it any more right tho. Why don't you stick to the points i made and comment on them instead of repeating the same thing over and over. You appear to be very one dimensional in this regard. I am not even opposed to a nerf and still you push me into the "guilty evil titan pilot drawer". I expected more of you. I am dissapoint.
hioshi IV
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1810 - 2012-03-14 19:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: hioshi IV
@CCP: Your drawing your own death.

Look at this topic, more and more people are starting to see your connection/favoritism towards goons.

Soon, your corruption will be exposed, you will die, and i wont feel sorry for you.

@goons: Well played, another victory thru the crybaby's you are, once more, ccp came to your rescue.

@Titan owners: I feel sorry for you, skilling for years, griding isk and get ass raped by goons like this

@everyone else: Stop eating goon propaganda. Vote for someone besides goons to cut their csm power, and plz, open your eyes. Read this topic, the corruption is exposed right here. Just read it


NEXT: goons trying to ridicule my post, to make it disappear into the pages darkness ..
FOl2TY8
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1811 - 2012-03-14 19:50:39 UTC
Daiony wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Daiony wrote:

Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.


There are Titan pilots who misbehaved and brought this on themselves, but had the guts to post with their mains. Then there are the Titan pilots like you, who also helped bring this about, yet are so ashamed that they hide behind NPC alts.

Either way, it's your fault this has happened, but the Titan pilots who post with their mains at least have some pride. And a spine.



Yeah, you said that a few times now, doesn't make it any more right tho. Why don't you stick to the points i made and comment on them instead of repeating the same thing over and over. You appear to be very one dimensional in this regard. I am not even opposed to a nerf and still you push me into the "guilty evil titan pilot drawer". I expected more of you. I am dissapoint.



Your points have literally nothing to do with game mechanics that are broken.
asdf ghyj
Zorg Solutions
#1812 - 2012-03-14 19:50:51 UTC
Dmitry Sychev wrote:
asdf ghyj wrote:
Dear CCP if do this nerf then gief back to all pilots titan skills cuz we spend 5 bil for skill and 100 bils = for titan and wasting like 3 month + for make skill AND NOW WE CANT USE THIS SHIP cuz this MITANI not have skill and isk to take titan

MR MITANI go play PREPELIX ONLINE and stop cry to CCP cuz u guys (goon) cant fly titans

OR MAKE SERVER FOR GOONS AND LET US PLAY FAIR
And CCp what prefer to have 6-7k players( goons) or 60k players ??????
Think before do wrong changes


60k players? How many titans in Game? - Titan's pilots will leave game, no changes to online.


I dont care how many titans pilot are in game, but i dont wasting my time 3+ month for perfect titan and a lot time to make isk to buy skill and titan and now ????? we all pay to play this game not only GOONS or MItani
CCP must listen all players not only 5-6k
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1813 - 2012-03-14 19:53:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
The Mittani wrote:
Daiony wrote:

Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.


There are Titan pilots who misbehaved and brought this on themselves, but had the guts to post with their mains. Then there are the Titan pilots like you, who also helped bring this about, yet are so ashamed that they hide behind NPC alts.

Either way, it's your fault this has happened, but the Titan pilots who post with their mains at least have some pride. And a spine.



you do know that eventually this is going to bite you in the tuchus too eh?

i cant wait for stackable RR and damage applied penilties... the goon tears are going to be epic!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Khadmos
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1814 - 2012-03-14 19:54:32 UTC
If this is such a horrible nerf, why isn't PL selling their titans?

I see a **** load of buyers in the buy/sell forum but no confirmed sales yet.

Either PL isn't actually selling their titans because they know they are still over powered or they are idiots and actually selling them to droves of people who know they are still over powered.

It's pretty obvious that all this whining is just an attempt to keep them as ridiculous as they are now.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1815 - 2012-03-14 19:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Daiony wrote:
They should do it right the first time, not rush some crap out and alienate one part of the playerbase.
The part alienated by this change is so small that it's statistically insignificant — as in: any single change they implement any time they patch the game has a random chance + margin of error that means more people will be alienated by whatever tiny detail is changed, than the amount of people claiming that they will be alienated by this game improvement.
Daiony
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1816 - 2012-03-14 19:56:00 UTC
FOl2TY8 wrote:
Daiony wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Daiony wrote:

Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.


There are Titan pilots who misbehaved and brought this on themselves, but had the guts to post with their mains. Then there are the Titan pilots like you, who also helped bring this about, yet are so ashamed that they hide behind NPC alts.

Either way, it's your fault this has happened, but the Titan pilots who post with their mains at least have some pride. And a spine.



Yeah, you said that a few times now, doesn't make it any more right tho. Why don't you stick to the points i made and comment on them instead of repeating the same thing over and over. You appear to be very one dimensional in this regard. I am not even opposed to a nerf and still you push me into the "guilty evil titan pilot drawer". I expected more of you. I am dissapoint.



Your points have literally nothing to do with game mechanics that are broken.


- nerf tailored around meta14 items (seriously wtf?)
- nerf applied without adjusting scan res/ sig radius of supercaps, thereby hintering titan ability to fight other supercaps
- ignoring the mechanic that leads to titans being used at all, i.e. give alliances a reason to field supercaps / caps in the first place.
- rushed out at a time where this will help cfc leaves a bad taste, why not take their time and do it right the first time?

has nothing to do with game mechanics? Please stfu.
Scooter McCabe
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1817 - 2012-03-14 19:56:07 UTC
Quote:
Because the honorable mittani and the goons are a role model for moral integrity and aloofness. Please, get over yourself.
Look at the whole picture from a non biased standpoint and even you will have to acknowledge that this "fix" is ****, halfassed. It doesn't matter where anyone touched your subcapitals. The very concept of this adjustment is wrong. They should do it right the first time, not rush some crap out and alienate one part of the playerbase.

Try to be objective for once.


Okay let's be objective:

The utilitarian argument: Fewer players actually use Titans, more players fly sub caps so lets make sure they enjoy the game.

The pragmatic argument: Titan's are supposed to be powerful and a threat to a number of ships, just not all ships.

The rational argument: Cannons aren't used for swatting flies.

The selfish argument: The few should be able to have a powerful ship that can be a threat to all ships and despite being a cannon it should be able to pluck the wings off a fly and by fly I mean Rifter.

So class 3 of these arguments are based on logic and not emotion. 1 of these arguments sums up what a coward hiding behind an alt is essentially saying. Which argument do you think that coward is using?
CaldariCitizen 20111026
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1818 - 2012-03-14 19:56:20 UTC
BAGEHI - "The good old fashion game of rock, paper, scissors, dynamite."

True, and dynamite is the dominant strategy.
Delegado Cero
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1819 - 2012-03-14 19:57:51 UTC
I think 5 scan resolution is too much, there's not that much difference in a sieged dreadnought locking a titan and vice versa.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1820 - 2012-03-14 19:59:04 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i cant wait for stackable RR and damage applied penilties... the goon tears are going to be epic!
You mean those things that have already been hinted at, and which most sane people will already be planning for?