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As long as I can still fly all the ships I can currently fly now, after the change...without having to do anything/spend any isk/waste any training time then I'm completely fine with this. If however you change the skill progression in spaceship command and don't immediately make the next project doing the same thing to the gunnery skill progression, I will be very disappoint. If it's good enough for our ships it's good enough for our turrets too! How many god damn attempts does it take to post something successfully to this forum? 4 so far

So on this day. I will get out of bed. Log into Eve. I will find that I cannot fly a BC, BS, Carrier, Dread, or Super.

Actually now that I think about it, what about our super sitters, they like dont dock....ever. Cant exactly JC him to empire to buy the _____BC skillbook and leave the supercarrier floating in space.

If you were to do that the only reasonable way would be to grant all bitter vets all four racial BC skills trained to the level that vanilla BC is trained to....actually now that I think about that, I only have BC 3..thats still an issue for me because according to the blog you will need L4, also why would I waste time training my supersitter for a BC?

My brain hurts now.

I have concluded that the whole idea is ruhtarded. Stick to fixing the game like you have been doing so well since crucible, dont break it again.

that sounds like a very wise chance, as for years, players have looked how ridiculous it looked, to have such a small training time difference betwin the Covetor and the T2 Hulk

how about Astrogeology down from 5 to 4 too ?






geeeshhh and i thought i could have some reasons to be wary of ccp changing BC as requirement for battleship and so on, as i fly all races ... but players that have trained for years, planed and remapped to follow a path, and suddenly get all they're train and goals sabotaged, would be immensely annoyed.
good thing ccp is looking to make sure people do not get unable to fly ships they could before.

i wish ccp the best of luck implementing this, knowing they'll need God's help to deal with unnecessary player base frustration and agro, if they handle this in a way to hinder player progression. good luck =)

I'm just throwing out ideas, there, under the assumption that our current standards of effectiveness may well change when they abolish the tiering system.

I like the small Command Ship idea.

The notion of specialized exploration vessels has come up, too.

Truly, there needs to be more variety in the tech 1 hulls of destroyers, too. A good source of inspiration for their loadouts actually comes from the battlecruisers, which are organized (primarily) into: dominant racial weapon system, secondary racial weapon system, and oversized weapon system categories.

Tech 1 Destroyer size launcher and drone boats, perhaps? An 8 launchers Caldari boat, a drone ship for the Gallente... Minmater perhaps 8 launchers with the bonus on rockets whereas the Caldari one gets it for Standard Missiles? Amar could get a drone boat, shoring up the races overall line of drone using ships some (the Arbitrator and its tech 2 variants really stick out like a sore thumb in this regard), or another Khanid vessel once again favouring launchers. For the oversized weapons group, Caldari should stick with launchers again while the others get their primary turrets.

Mentioned in the thread is the notion that if Defender Missiles worked to protect ships around you, a launcher based Destroyer immediately gains a fleet defense role via loading in defender missiles, while retaining an anti frigate capacity by reloading standard missiles. If the Destroyer sized drone ships bonus also applies to logistics drones, they can aid in more defensive pursuits, as well.

Just to continue throwing out ideas of a minimum level of merit wildly here: The "Exploration Vessel" could go off the same hull as Interdictors, retaining 4 turret slots for dealing with NPCs in sites. The "Vanguard Command Ship" type you mention, Sigras, could be off the new tech 1 hull, along with a "Rapid Response Vessel" logistics boat of some kind from that hull.

I like giving things names. Sue me. :D

It also amuses me greatly to imagine "swarm fleets" with Assault Ships. Interceptors, Electronic Attack Ships, Rapid Response Vessels, and Vanguard Command Ships squaring off in much the way current blobs of big ships do. I just might fall out of my chair laughing if I ever see a post QQing about a "battleship drop" during a high sec war.

…and you've come to this conclusion, how, exactly?

Probably by ignoring the fact that you already need Amarr Cruiser trained in order to fly an Amarr BC, so anyone who can fly a Harbinger now should still be able to fly a Harbinger when it requires "Amarr Battlecruiser" instead of "Battlecruiser". And if you can't fly a Drake today because you don't have Caldari Cruiser trained, why would it matter to you that you can't fly a Drake after the change?

So many people. So few braincells.

Good thing about generic destroyer and battleship skills is that it completes a main skill for 4 race varients. More choice of ships to fly the better so reducing that choice (making it longer to train) is not a good thing. I know it might be quicker to learn to fly one race's command ship due to the restructure but it still limits you to what you can fly. Might be better to be more competitive in one hull, but people will get bored quicker with just one hull.

As it is at the moment training I never minded training a ship type skill (interceptor for example) as part of the skill tree. For the simple fact interceptor is also generic.

You're adding about 3 months to training battlecruisers (3 races, 4th not counted as you would train that in any case) and 1 month to training destroyers, but you're not taking anytime away from the skill tree just rearranging it as far as I can see.




We do need to know what you intend to do as a reimbursement sooner rather than later, this decision to have destroyers and battlecruisers no longer generic is already having an effect of my game. Reason being I've put my training plan on hold and moved the battlecruiser skill to the main priority.

Started training BC V about 10 hours ago, so there's now 23 days still to train until it's completed. But what you decide to do as a reinbursement will make the difference between me wasting my time at the moment or investing the time wisely.

If you say anyone with BC V gets all 4 race BCs at V (although anyone without BC V or destroyer V gets 4 months added to their training skill tree, so it's not fair for them), or if you decided to reimburse the sp to use again after changing destroyers to rank 1 and battlecruisers to rank 2 then the BC V I'm training won't have been wasted assuming I can finish it in time.

If, however you also insist on having all 4 races cruiser skill to 3 or 4 which ever applies then the training presently is more likely to have been wasted (as it's likely I won't train it up in time) especially as I'm not that interested in the Minmatar command ship as I think it looks crap (I know some like it, but that just highlights the importance of having choice).

With the proposed change with the destroyer skill to having to train all 4 race destroyers to 4 is a waste to me as I don't fly destroyers and have no reason to do so. That is of course unless you add some other interesting destroyer hulls which I guess is a possibility. Although I don't think much of the new BCs (role) and hope that's not a sign of what the future holds.

As I understand it the roles will determine the ship bonuses, but players will still feel free to fit the ships however they like with modules?

I know the slot layout of some ships may change slightly - but that wont prevent a good variety of fits even within the same 'role'??

By your reasoning then ships that already have dedicated roles in game determined by bonuses and slot layout (like AFs) should all be fitted identically?? And yet there are still a good variety of fits out there - and you never quite know which one until you engage or scan them??

Agreed. BC's now are the perfect thing for noobs to train for as they can contribute to a PVP fleet quicker and they can also experiment with the different race weapon systems.

If this is CCP focusing on spaceships please go back to playing with space Barbie.