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Ship lines(I.E choosing the use of the ship, and setting it in stone) are taking the choice away from the player.

This game is already the biggest time sink game in existance(1 year min training skills to be mildly good)

this will not end well.

Yea this is what was needed .. not pos changes or drone fix or numerous other things that 90% of the community complain about 90% of the time. You need to completely overhaul and ruin a system which has worked fine for 9 years and had no complaints whatsoever. hey you could do same with inventory? oh you did.

Please put Torfi back in charge.

oh and bring warp to 15 back (and pirates with it)

and leave pirates alone!!!

Because A: Its how CCP makes their iskies?

or

Because B: Bitter vets will rage at all the time they spent training?

or

Because C: Both A and B?


Not really sure but nothing else makes sense.

Along with the much heralded changes to the mineral requirements for building the mining barges, it appears that the mineral requirements for all the T1 frigates that were buffed so far have been also adjusted.

At least, I didn't see any announcement to that effect though my look through the patch notes was somewhat cursory.

I imagine I will probably be thoroughly flamed for this suggestion, and I apologize in advance if it's been brought up before without my seeing, this thread is 106 pages long after all.

In any case, while we're on the subject of ship rebalancing, it's always struck me as a little counterintuitive that one would need to train Battleships to get into Carriers. Granted, they're the largest subcapital warships before carriers, but they're two different types of ships.

Battleships are gun/missile boats, and regardless of claims that some are droneboats, a droneboat in subcapitals (with the exception of the Arbitrator Cruiser) just means that a ship has greater than average drone capabilities. However, (with the exception of the Arbitrator Cruisier) these ships are still gun/missile boats first, with their main weapons providing the vast majority of their firepower, and drones serving only a secondary role, typically for use against frigates and other small targets.

As such, I've always favored the idea of expanding the carrier line into subcapitals, with two small subcapital carriers, usable in high-sec, that would approximately equal the overall power/tactical value of battlecruisers and battleships, but with similar battlefield roles to their capital counterparts.

NOTE: Drones, in the context of this suggestion, refers to actual moving drones, not sentries, which I never considered true drones to begin with.

The smallest of the two, I like to call "Escort Carriers", would be akin to battlecruisers. About the same size, about the same firepower and tank (though these could be adjusted within this approximate range to balance their effectiveness within their role), and will use drones as their primary, perhaps even sole means of doing damage, with high slots reserved for either support modules or other things that don't require turrets or missile bays. Equivalent damage could be acheived with drone bonuses, in damage, range, controllable number, or some combination of the three.

The largest of the two, I like to call "Light Carriers", would be akin to battleships. Like their smaller counterparts, about the same size, firepower and tank as their gun/missile boat counters, and will likewise use drones as their primary or sole means of doing damage, with bonuses to drone damage, range and number of simultaniously deployed drones giving them this firepower. (Note: As a thought, it may also be worth considering to allow Light Carriers ONLY to deploy small numbers of fighters (balanced by bandwidth), in lieu of equivalent bandwidth worth of standard drones.)

The drone bonuses in both ships could be targeted to apply only to moving drones, not sentries (which I never considered true drones anyway). Such distinctions could be part of a drone overhaul that could accompany these ships.

This would provide an entire line leading smoothly into carriers, and thus (Capital) Carriers would require level 5 (or 4, as I believe was stated in the article) of Light Carriers, rather than Battleships, which is a bit more intuitive. This also allows prospective Carrier pilots to learn carrier tactics in subcapitals before moving into very expensive capitals, as well as bringing carrier tactics into high-sec which, though it would probably require much testing and balancing, would definitely make combat in high-sec much more diverse than it currently is.

It'd also throw droneboaters a long overdue bone (especially if accompanied by long-needed drone overhauls), and, it may sound a bit selfish, but as a droneboater myself, it would make me very happy, as I'd finally have a ship that would suit me, without having to settle for a severe cut in firepower.

What about those of us who only have ever trained for one race and would never train for another because of RP I assume we will get the option to not have those skills implanted?

Extra SP requires earlier and/or more expensive medical clones for skills that are not needed. So CCP makes more money ultimately. I can see why CCP would like this but also why a player who only wants to focus train one race would not...

Sry but yes you are being one. If something those ship changes are going to benefit once againt to the older players rather than new ones that will now have to train far more than you ever did to complete the full racial tree up to BS.

Plus you're getting back loads of SP provided you've trained your MAIN character for all races witch is not a big deal for older players. If you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, where's the problem?

Hulk: As Tippia posted in some other thread, Hulk is the ultimate king of yeld of all mining barges provided you are using it in fleets witch was a good change.
Giving Hulk the fleet role was one of the best things done with this mining barges changes, if you want to have the best yeld for solo mining with relative safety, you can field a very decent yeld Mackinaw with 40K EHP. Then if you really like to "afk" mine while doing other stuff pick the Skiff, mine gets 3k yeld per cycle with 90k EHP without a single fitting/tank/mining implant or booster, isn't this safe and good enough??

Sorry to spoil your day, you need to look back into the game history.

I have lost many skillpoints that i and original players have trained that dont exist in the game now, this is due to previous changes you are not even aware of ! so infact you have an easier route than we did.
But more impotantly when you have a lot of skillpoints their is very little left to train that would be of use , so a re inbursement of skill points wont help at all.

As for afk mining, never have and never would, i worked up the tree to get the best with a large capacity and a reasonable tank, now its useless. like so many other changes before.

And a fleet boost should apply, no matter what ship you use.

I'd like to point out that a Cynabal is a Cruiser. You don't need to train Battlecruiser for it. Requiring two faction skills is a great trade off for the high end awesomeness that is Pirate Faction ships while not requiring T2 train times. Pirate Faction ships are about the only thing I like about having faction ship skills to be honest.

The next point is, you do realize that as it stands now, if they stick with pattern of L4 skill to the next class, you only need one more level in Minmitar cruiser to get into a hurricane? Just train that last level just in case, though I'm pretty sure I saw a reference somewhere saying you only need L3 as is, so anything you can currently fly, you'll be able to fly if this change goes through. So you're kinda complaining about a problem that already has a potential solution the devs are kicking around.