EVE General Discussion

Your need to apply labels to everything to quantify the world around you is narrow and weak-minded.
So is your assumption that anything I say on these forums reflects how I actually feel or what opinions I do or do not hold.

Couldn't of put it better

Thanks for that

The reason why there is A LOT of justified resentment towards Incarna is that it represents a misallocation of development assets and resources that have starved and neglected the core game for a long time now.

Originally we were told that Incarna/WIS whatever was going to be a "free bonus" spinoff from WoD development that wouldn't impact the continuing development of the core game experience but that has proven to be completely untrue.

And as for "don't like it - don't use it" we've been forced to use it insofar as its rollout in the form of CQ has led to the destruction of the traditional functionality of the hanger view and radically increased system overhead for multi-clienting.

It is strongly suspected the reason this has been forced on the player base was to make a mandatory environment to sell NeX goods in. So Incarna is basically a glorified display cabinet for overpriced vanity MT items and for that the core game has been starved of development and our client memory and GPU footprint has been hugely increased.

I think CCP listened to the wrong focus groups basically. I don't believe it is possible to grow the population of this game much by providing the kind of Avatar experience available through CQ/Incarna. People play Eve because its a hardcore spaceship sandbox - not because of the pretty ponies and dresses. I could see the potential for fooling a new player for 30mins or something with the CQ evironment but the moment they undock for space they'll see the game for what it is and no amount of character walking avatar fluff will hide that. I suspect your wife will not remain with this game for long if the CQ environment is the only draw. If she continues playing I guarentee the annoyances the rest of us feel about the Incarna technical issues will afflict here - but if CQ is all she likes about the game then she'd honestly be better off playing something else.

As for the new gameplay mechanics - don't hold your breath for gambling because CCP has already fallen afoul of some gaming laws and restrictions because of the plex/isk/currency transferability.

There will also be pretty low ceilings for maximum numbers of avatars in a public place.

This drug-smuggling business is probably all we'll get alongside some lonely bars where you need to buy different coloured barstools for 2000 aurum each.

This is why there is such a huge negative reaction to Incarna basically.

1. Its perceived as the NeX Vanity case.
2. Its stolen resources from Core Eve gameplay development.
3. Its terribly limited in scope.
4. Its horribly inefficient in computing power.
5. It was foisted on the players in a very clumsy way (forcing us to use it)
6. It frankly doesn't jell with the rest of Eve.

Roleplayers hate it because it breaks their immersion (forcing people to get out of capsule each time they dock) and allowing an Amarr nationalist corporation to sell their overprized tat to freedom fighters. (Or forcing Amarrian slavers to live in a Minmatar roach motel).

PVPers/Traders/Industrialists hate it because it makes it harder to switch ships, utilize the hanger environment, load cargo etc etc.

Long term Eve players hate it because its a embarrassing reminder that CCP have wasted the last 3 years of our subs on this rubbish.

Anyone who has an old computer hates it because of the system overhead.

People who dislike MTs hate it because of the NeX contamination in our lovely subscription-based universe.

To be quite honest, I'm hard put to think of any redeeming feature for this horrible horrible waste of time and money that has been unthinkingly-crowbared into New Eden.

Unfortunately I'm not sure it is. I think what we have at the moment is a joke. The technology is terrible and given the system resources eaten up for a single boring room I have no hope whatsoever it'll scale properly for multiplayer establishments. Just as given the ridiculously poor record for content deliverly (1 racial CQ for 2,3,4? years of development) I have no hope this will ever be more than a costly white elephant that tried its level best to ruin Eve Online.

Seriously, this rubbish is of value only to the NeX marketing zombies.



I honestly don't know. My gut feeling is that a whole lot of Eve developers (the actual developers not the marketing men and focus-group MT bandwagoneers) are probably hoping that community pressure ends up with Incarna/Nex being publicly ditched, shot in the back in the head and dumped in a lonely ditch so they can get back to working on the game they joined the company to work on.



Like what? I'm drawing blanks as to what this potential is at this point. I have lost any faith that CCP can program a 3d station environment properly from reading the "emergency minutes" from the last CSM session where the CQ/Incarna designers were patting themselves on the back saying what a wonderful coding job and rollout it was.

I said somewhere else on these forums if you want to see what a 3d engine looks like in 2011 go and buy Space Marine and see your GPU barely touch 25% usage while rendering two dozen Orks getting dismembered by a chainsword in twenty-foot high gouts of blood. What Incarna is programmed in is like some highschool project not a primetime premium gameplay engine.



Those limtis have been reached and that is why we're seeing unsubscription waves and crisis and anger and disappointment and CCP is losing its reputation month by month. We were asked by the company to put up with 18 months of virtual non-development on the promise that everything was going to be great at the end. People trusted that because they trusted the goodwill of the company. But 18 months of neglect ending with a shambolic 3D environment foised on the client to the sole purpose of selling overpriced MT monocles and skirts is beyond a joke.

Its a slap in the face and a mocking laugh at the community that believed the promises.

Nothing less than a complete 180 on this fiasco is going to be acceptable for many.

god dambit. well at least these forums don't log me out every time I open a new thread.

Ah, yes. The usual resort to personal attacks. Clearly a sign of high-quality thinking going on behind the scenes, much as caps lock is cruise control for coolness. Those who've actually read my previous post know that I do use Captain's Quarters due to hardware limitations. Those who've read my posts elsewhere on the subject know that if CQ becomes a required part of the game I will cancel my subscription, because this computer cannot run CQ in its current iteration without overheating. I (obviously) cannot shove an additional fan into a laptop case, and have no interest in spending $600 on a computer just to play EVE. That does not mean Incarna is bad for EVE.

Anyways, even if we take all of the assertions in the quote as true, that there has been no bugfixing in Incarna, at worst Incarna is the equivalent of no work being done on EVE. That would mean EVE is exactly the game it was before Incarna. That does not break EVE. Even if Incarna contained no bugfixes (it did), all it would mean is that EVE is as broken a game after Incarna as it was before Incarna. If those "glaring" bugs were not enough to keep you from enjoying the game prior to Incarna, then why do they suddenly keep you from enjoying the game now, and if you never enjoyed EVE, then why have you been paying for it? Unless of course you're a closet masochist or something.

It is true that Incarna has had no significant impact whatsoever on the in-space portion of the game. It did contain various bugfixes and introduced some shiny new stuff like new turrets. But all it means is that CCP has not added any new shiny features to the in-space game. Yes, it would be nice if the POS interface was overhauled, and it would be nice if CCP dedicated more resources to the in-space game, but the lack of new content does not break a game. It simply means that we do not get shiny new stuff, and in the end that seems to be what most of the folk are whining about: they want their space-ponies, but they don't want Incarna-ponies, and since CCP isn't giving them space-ponies clearly CCP broke the game.

Because there's no reason someone would leave over completely optional content. If you don't like or can't run the CQ, then turn it off. If you don't like the NEX, then don't buy from it. It's true that CCP committed a major error in not quickly squashing rumors that they were planning to introduce cash transactions for in-game items, but as things stand Incarna has absolutely no effect on this game in any meaningful way.


Aside from ship-spinning, drag & drop, and being able to identify the active ship without opening the ship hangar, we haven't lost any functionality. The above functions are hardly all that significant. I play on a rather small monitor, and verifying which ship I'm in takes an extra 2 seconds: one click on the hangar tab and one glance on which ship is highlighted. Ship spinning was fun, but hardly essential. Drag & drop was also nice, but there's a two-key shortcut which opens the ship hangar, soalso hardly a major inconvenience.


I pay to play the game. I do hope that CCP keeps developing the game, and adding new stuff but my $15 per month do not obligate CCP to provide shiny new features twice a year, every year for as long as my subscription is active. And CCP has added new stuff to the game. They may not be the things everyone wants, but CCP has hardly abandoned EVE development. We have received a steady stream of minor patches, and some major technical updates which currently have no effect on the game but lay the groundwork for future development. I do not use CQ, but the Incarna framework is a clear indication that CCP is developing the game.

That's fair comment, and I largely agree.

However.

The plain fact is that CCP are demanding a premium subscription rate for a very old MMO. If they want to keep charging us 15 E/$ a month, then they'd better put significant development that delivers actual gameplay improvements and expansion. If they're going to give us $5 service instead of $15 service, then they'd better lower their price to $5/mo.

Just as CCP aren't obligated to give us expansions, we're not obligated to pay them to develop new games.