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Mittani interviewed by MMORPG about current EvE neglect

First post
Author
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#141 - 2011-09-09 14:12:49 UTC
I hope mittens gets managment to care about eve.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2011-09-09 14:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
According to Trebor's twitter the minutes of the emergency meeting have been finalized and will be published "real soon".

Is this enough to put a spoke in the wheels of the CSM's media offensive?


edit: actually they are out already.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#143 - 2011-09-09 14:30:52 UTC
Still think this offensive will be ignored?
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
#144 - 2011-09-09 14:37:59 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

What do I want out of Incarna? Establishments, bars, minigames (poker), maybe a place where listeners of EVE Radio can actually meet up in person.

Although the first iteration is only a room with a clothing store, you do realize that there is more coming, right? I see people make this statement, "Oh well, Incarna is a just a room bla bla bla!"

It's part 1 of an "ongoing" expansion.


Over what time scale though?

We are nearly 3 months since deployment and still only have one racial CQ and no firm dates for even the other races CQs.

At this rate how many of the current playerbase will still be playing (or even alive Big smile)by the time there is some actual content/interaction available?

So far Incarna is at best a cutscene without the storytelling.








Fear God and Thread Nought

Jr Instructorcon
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2011-09-09 15:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jr Instructorcon
Let's break down what has been delivered so far on WiS:

Avatar Creator
Minmatar CQ
NeX

and... that's it. That isn't even an expansion. It's been four months since Incarna "came out", and yet all we have is what mostly could amount to the same content in the Duality beta test(3) (which was SIX MONTHS AGO). We have three months left in the year. According to various dev blogs(1)(2), the plan is to release everything in chunks over the rest of this year. We are already 60% of the way through that timeline and we haven't seen any new WiS content, only bug fixes.

I see a lot of people arguing over the benefits of WiS and the social aspects it brings to the game. The problem is that WiS hasn't even been *delivered*. There is talk of them including it with the winter expansion. What the hell was Incarna then? How is it that the majority of development resources is being spent on WiS, and it hasn't even been delivered to us, even in a testable form?

The longer WiS is not delivered (even in a base form), the longer we have until the *slight* possibility(!) of a FiS focus.

I think I speak for the majority of the player base when I say, what the **** CCP.

EDIT: It also appears bb code is not being parsed correctly, so here are the in-line citations:

(1) http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2355
(2) http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2318
(3) http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2281
DrDan21
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2011-09-09 15:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: DrDan21
Jackie Fisher wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

What do I want out of Incarna? Establishments, bars, minigames (poker), maybe a place where listeners of EVE Radio can actually meet up in person.

Although the first iteration is only a room with a clothing store, you do realize that there is more coming, right? I see people make this statement, "Oh well, Incarna is a just a room bla bla bla!"

It's part 1 of an "ongoing" expansion.


Over what time scale though?

We are nearly 3 months since deployment and still only have one racial CQ and no firm dates for even the other races CQs.

At this rate how many of the current playerbase will still be playing (or even alive Big smile)by the time there is some actual content/interaction available?

So far Incarna is at best a cutscene without the storytelling.


Seriously they are so behind on Incarna it's not even funny. Which in turn means Incarna dev time will potentially be taking time from expansions we actually want.
Gefgarion Ankatar
The Bloody Dogs of War
#147 - 2011-09-09 15:50:26 UTC
Jackie Fisher wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

What do I want out of Incarna? Establishments, bars, minigames (poker), maybe a place where listeners of EVE Radio can actually meet up in person.

Although the first iteration is only a room with a clothing store, you do realize that there is more coming, right? I see people make this statement, "Oh well, Incarna is a just a room bla bla bla!"

It's part 1 of an "ongoing" expansion.


Over what time scale though?

We are nearly 3 months since deployment and still only have one racial CQ and no firm dates for even the other races CQs.

At this rate how many of the current playerbase will still be playing (or even alive Big smile)by the time there is some actual content/interaction available?

So far Incarna is at best a cutscene without the storytelling.





What about the other content that was released half done and never actually iterated on or fixed? Add Incarna to that growing list and keep waiting.



Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2011-09-09 15:52:53 UTC
Fact is, even when Incarna is done, it won't add anything to Eve gameplay.
Jr Instructorcon
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#149 - 2011-09-09 16:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jr Instructorcon
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
According to Trebor's twitter the minutes of the emergency meeting have been finalized and will be published "real soon".

Is this enough to put a spoke in the wheels of the CSM's media offensive?


edit: actually they are out already.


As I said on my alliance jabber:

Quote:
Document sucks, playerbase is not stupid, CSM is not an evil entity, CCP is not a clear, dispassionate entity, and this document reads more like a PR release than anything interesting. Wake me up when CCP is willing to be frank with us.


There are obvious changes of tone and voice as unmarked editorial statements are inserted. There are several loaded words when the CSM speaks, like "harshly", "criticized", "demanded" etc, while when CCP speaks it is "clearly", "noted", "expressed", "agreed" etc. We are not stupid. We know how to read tone. I am concerned over the use of statements like "EVE has always been a GPU-intensive game" and their stated lack of "concrete" evidence of ATi card issues post-launch. There are several points in which CCP shrugs off issues with lighting performance with such statements as "CCP noted that the Minmatar CQ are supposed to be dark and sparse", which completely sidesteps the technical issue with lighting performance, not positioning.

We want minutes, not PR garbage. If you want us to take the CSM-CCP relationship seriously, then you will need to show us you are not attempting to use them as part of your PR to "placate" us.
E Potato
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2011-09-09 19:37:03 UTC
Jr Instructorcon wrote:

We want minutes, not PR garbage. If you want us to take the CSM-CCP relationship seriously, then you will need to show us you are not attempting to use them as part of your PR to "placate" us.


Of course they are attempting to use them for that. Fortunately, the CSM has other ideas.
Helothane
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#151 - 2011-09-09 20:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Helothane
I see a lot of "CCP should do this" and "CCP doesn't want", but what should be clear from The Mittani is that there are elements within CCP that would like nothing more than to improve and expand on FiS. Some mention "CCP Management", which is closer to the mark. While I have no definitive proof, I have a feeling that can be narrowed down to one individual, the one at the top. The same person who had issues with the wording of the minutes of the emergency session, even after it had been worked on by both the CSM and the CCP employees involved. Hilmar appears to have a road map in mind for CCP and no one, be it employees, customers or the media, are going to influence that course.

All these forum posts, media articles, even CSM meetings are just words, after all.
Puppet Mas'ter
The Merchants of War
#152 - 2011-09-10 05:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Puppet Mas'ter
*slow clap* epic troll Mittens
Truely Epic

- yes im crossposting but its to show the enormity of the troll

CCP: Madness!!! This is FiS Us: Fis? chuckle (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Us: THIS IS EVE

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2011-09-14 14:31:13 UTC
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Fact is, even when Incarna is done, it won't add anything to Eve gameplay.


Fact is. You are wrong.

Seriously...what is with all this ignorant hate towards Incarna? If you don't like it, don't use it. It has it's place. Incarna will help grow the population of EvE. A lot of gamers out there want to see an avatar not just a ship. You may not be one of those but you are the minority on that I guarantee. And I am not just referring to the population of EvE. I am referring to MMORPG gamers in general. My wife refused to play this game until Incarna because she didn't like looking at just a ship. Now that she can custom make her character and see it in station she plays. Many people are like that. And they are justified in thier own right to have that opinion and feeling towards any game.

It has already been stated on numerous occaisions by CCP that Incarna when finished will have new gameplay mechanics for in station stuff like gambling and owning your own shops. There is new gameplay for EvE right there. So...you are wrong.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#154 - 2011-09-14 14:34:27 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
Fact is, even when Incarna is done, it won't add anything to Eve gameplay.


Fact is. You are wrong.

Seriously...what is with all this ignorant hate towards Incarna? If you don't like it, don't use it. It has it's place. Incarna will help grow the population of EvE. A lot of gamers out there want to see an avatar not just a ship. You may not be one of those but you are the minority on that I guarantee. And I am not just referring to the population of EvE. I am referring to MMORPG gamers in general. My wife refused to play this game until Incarna because she didn't like looking at just a ship. Now that she can custom make her character and see it in station she plays. Many people are like that. And they are justified in thier own right to have that opinion and feeling towards any game.

It has already been stated on numerous occaisions by CCP that Incarna when finished will have new gameplay mechanics for in station stuff like gambling and owning your own shops. There is new gameplay for EvE right there. So...you are wrong.



yeh incarna has bumped up the player base so much, soon we will break the 70k pcu barrier its been that good

OMG when can i get a pic here

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#155 - 2011-09-14 14:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendolus
Oglyn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

In the narrowest pedantic sense, Mittens was incorrect to say that he led the largest alliance. In any sense that actually matters, he's spot on. In any case, it's trivial.


I actually made that point in another post. Of course it is trivial.
My point was, why open yourself to attack because of stupid oversights?

If he is going to effectively represent the player base he has to get it right, otherwise it is all too easy to drive a wedge in.


It is enough to simply take anything one desires out of context and thump it repeatedly on a pulpit, whether or not someone commits easier mistakes on paper that can immediately be taken to task over is more a matter of time and energy than anything.

TLDR (sorta)

Does not matter if he had an army of editors, someone would find a single phrase or term in an entire voluminous document to champion as the sole reason everything he says or does is unequivocally wrong in every conceivable way.

Happens in real life every day anymore, what would make it different here?

Someone writes up a ten thousand page scientific thesis on the impact of radioactive decay from sewage leaks in a pipeline on marine biology in a local bay and some fool notices he missed a capital letter somewhere and claims the entire article must certainly be a farce to get grant money.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2011-09-14 15:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Keep in mind that Incarna itself was not a "full" expansion. Its core features were made available to players well before Incarna's release date. The new avatars were released as part of the Incursions expansion. The Minmatar Captain's Quarters were made available on Singularity (the test server) weeks before Incarna went live. No person with even the least bit of insight would have expected Incarna itself to generate an increase in player activity.

Also keep in mind that the CSM's continued attempts to generate bad publicity for EVE are probably driving away potential new players, and that CSM's continued attempts at agitating the existing player base are probably driving away existing players. So it is not surprising that player activity has remained relatively stagnant throughout much of the summer.

That said, Incarna is the groundwork for future expansions, for which it will provide the technical backbone. It is for all intents and purposes more of a technical than a gameplay update. Incarna does not, in fact, have any real gameplayvalue since it does not really provide anything for players to do. But it will only be a failure if CCP fails to capitalize on Incarna technology or if it mishandles Incarna's potential. Both of those will be answered in the Winter expansion.

But I suppose the Facebook generation has very short time horizons and can't think beyond the next week, so perhaps it is not surprising that we're seeing so many complaints about what is, at its heart, an extremely ambitious expansion technologically. It would be nice to see more in-space content. It would be nice if the teams working on nullsec were to get all the resources they needed to make their visions come true. But we'll get more in-space content eventually, and nullsec will eventually be revamped, even if it takes several expansions. Just because we want them, doesn't mean CCP should drop everything and gives us sparkle-pony-ships right this very moment.

I also really like the new turrets and sound effects.
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#157 - 2011-09-14 15:09:37 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
...


Pretty much this.

But then, why would anyone listen to reason when it is so much more exciting to complain and worry? Oops

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.

Jorund Bork
The Destiny Logistics.
#158 - 2011-09-14 15:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorund Bork
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

It has already been stated on numerous occaisions by CCP that Incarna when finished will have new gameplay mechanics for in station stuff like gambling and owning your own shops. There is new gameplay for EvE right there. So...you are wrong.



I applaud your optimism, really.

CCP have a very long history of promising things and then letting them go to the wayside when they realise they can't implement them, or they get a new idea. Can anyone remember all the old storyline events that went on for months/years that never got finished?

Personally, WIS adds nothing for me. I, and I suspect the vast majority of the playerbase, play EVE to fly ships in space. If I wanted a first person rpg this wouldn't be it.

EVE is not a patch on what it used to be. I try hard to enjoy EVE now. It used to be easy to enjoy.
Jee'ta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2011-09-14 15:30:53 UTC

What amuses me is I've seen a game that did avatar "social spaces" really well. Fallen Earth, with a much smaller development team than CCP could amass, came up with these cool bunker bars. It even had various mini-games and, what was cool, others could gather around and watch the person playing the game.

... oddly enough they were almost always empty. As were super-bases in CoH. It turns out most people log into a game for "game-play". Socialisation happens while playing the game through chat or voice comms. People are unlikely to stop playing the game, fly to one station so they can stand in a room and type at each other. That doesn't make sense for anyone other than a tiny fringe of hard-core roleplayers.

Maybe, in time, CCP could invest enough gameplay into the use of avatars that people would log in to play with their avatars. That's pretty unlikely though and it would still be a massive misuse of resources when there are glaring faults in the core gameplay that most people are paying a sub for.

Then again, everyone knows it's really just a WoD tech-test so it's a pretty pointless argument.
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2011-09-14 15:31:13 UTC
Jorund Bork wrote:
Personally, WIS adds nothing for me. I, and I suspect the vast majority of the playerbase, play EVE to fly ships in space. If I wanted a first person rpg this wouldn't be it.

EVE is not a patch on what it used to be. I try hard to enjoy EVE now. It used to be easy to enjoy.


But how does Incarna affect the in-space portion of the game? As things stand, you can turn off CQ, as I have done due to hardware issues. The current version of Incarna has no effect on gameplay. So to say that Incarna somehow "breaks" EVE is rather silly unless you're a roleplayer, in which case just use your imagination to explain how exiting/entering a pod is now a 10-second procedure.

EVE has also improved quite a bit in the two years since I have started playing. We've gotten new ships, more solar systems, an entirely new set of group-oriented missions, and many bugfixes thanks to the efforts of Akita T and Team BFF, among others. I am quite glad not to have been around when sov warfare involved grinding through a dozen or more POSes per day. It is true that there have not been as many new features added to the in-space portion of the game, but that does not mean that the game itself has somehow gotten worse for lack of new stuff to do.

It EVE no longer feels like it is fun, it may be that you simply need a beak from EVE. We all hit that wall at some point. Put your account into hibernation, and find another game to play for a week or a month. It helps.