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EVE Online: Crucible 1.2 Feedback

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#61 - 2012-02-16 18:24:55 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#62 - 2012-02-16 18:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Funkert
Elanor Vega wrote:

I am not talking about mains of that ppl that complain.
I am talking about botting alts that finance that combat records of some ppl.

And for your information, EVE is not all about pew pew combat, there are other kinds of combat that don't give you killmails.


I have no f'ing idea what you're trying to get at. If you suspect anyone specific int this thread uses a bot alt call them out.

BTW, I don't need bots. i make enough to 'finance my combat main'

Now am i allowed to complain about the overview changes? please sir? or did you have any actual arguments to bring into the discussion that i missed?


Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.



Yes and no. Of course we can get used to the new mechanics, but it is not an improvement. Go check some PVP videos or go out and shoot some some people yourself. You'll notice that more than half of the time your mouse is in the overview area. Locking the overview when needed is great, but having it lock up all the time is not.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#63 - 2012-02-16 18:32:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.




I dont know anyone with a problem with ctrl freeze. The only problem it had was in the last year when ccp introduced shortcuts and broke it.

As for not keeping my mouse on the overview, how am i supposed to scroll through pages of targets in a battle and watch their relative positions without having my mouse on the overview?

I dont need to try it a few days, ive played enough to know this change offers no improvement and only offers inconvenience for pvp.

If i want to pod kill someone in amamake, even if it was a frigate 1v1 i would have to switch to a large battle default because his pod will appear at the underneath 30 station and celestials so i would have to use a tab without those things just to even see his pod on page 1. That tab usually being used for fights 50vs50 +.

Not a good change.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2012-02-16 18:32:25 UTC
Funkert wrote:
Aquila Draco wrote:
Sorry but...
Why noone of ppl who complains after every patch dont come to SiSi and test anything there and give feedback before change goes live???

You ppl like when devs spend their time in vain on reading complains after change is live and then changing changes because few ppl dont like it?

because i pay money for TQ.

edit: i'm all for occasionally testing stuff on sisi, but don't act like it's a responsibility we have. People do it either because they can spare the time, or because they want to get some kind of advantage out of it


You are correct, it is not a responsibility, but the "kind of advantage" you receive (if you have the time to test) is a much higher likelyhood that changes will be made in a way that makes you happy.

The flip comments that others have made about "these problems would be obvious after 5 minutes" reveal more than anything else how myopic and uninformed the poster is.

It's not an obvious problem if most people like it and you don't happen to.
It may be an obvious problem on your machine, but that doesn't mean it is an obvious problem on everyone's machine.

This is why it is advantageous to take 5 minutes once in a while, click the little button to update and fire up the test server, and give some input on the changes that are being discussed on the forums and in Dev Blogs.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dancul1001
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#65 - 2012-02-16 18:34:16 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.




i don't like my overview freezing at all. Its not too bad when it only freezes when you hold down your lock target button. But anytime you have your mouse over the overview its going to freeze. That is really dumb IMO just give me a option to disable it and i will be happy
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#66 - 2012-02-16 18:37:10 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.




I dont know anyone with a problem with ctrl freeze. The only problem it had was in the last year when ccp introduced shortcuts and broke it.

As for not keeping my mouse on the overview, how am i supposed to scroll through pages of targets in a battle and watch their relative positions without having my mouse on the overview?

I dont need to try it a few days, ive played enough to know this change offers no improvement and only offers inconvenience for pvp.

If i want to pod kill someone in amamake, even if it was a frigate 1v1 i would have to switch to a large battle default because his pod will appear at the underneath 30 station and celestials so i would have to use a tab without those things just to even see his pod on page 1. That tab usually being used for fights 50vs50 +.

Not a good change.


I do, and you can ask anyone that broadcasts targets to the rest of their fleet. That was one issue, among others.

The rest of you posts illustrates that you are either unwilling, or unable, to figure out the couple of tweaks you would need to make to your habits and overview set up to have things work better than you currently do.

Buddy, it's not that hard.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#67 - 2012-02-16 18:39:27 UTC
Dancul1001 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.




i don't like my overview freezing at all. Its not too bad when it only freezes when you hold down your lock target button. But anytime you have your mouse over the overview its going to freeze. That is really dumb IMO just give me a option to disable it and i will be happy


I have nothing against making it optional, providing it doesn't jack with other aspects of the overview behavior to make it so that it can BE optional. However, with the new level of performance in effect, I don't think you're going to be as happy with the old way as you think.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dancul1001
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#68 - 2012-02-16 18:46:05 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


I have nothing against making it optional, providing it doesn't jack with other aspects of the overview behavior to make it so that it can BE optional. However, with the new level of performance in effect, I don't think you're going to be as happy with the old way as you think.



i think i would be happy with it even if there was some performance issue's i know as if right now i cant stand the overview
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#69 - 2012-02-16 18:48:19 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Elanor Vega wrote:
khm,khm

Overview changes broke someones botts?



Check the combat records of the people who are complaining then check the non-existent combat records of those that arnt. Then check yourself.


Feel free to check mine.

Most of the complains here center around a muscle memory issue that will take a day or so to retrain... get used to putting your mouse over the overview when you want to freeze it to target or broadcast, and over other critical area's (like changing already locked targets, activating/deactivating modules, changing your heading) at other times.

The ctrl/freeze behavior needed to change, badly, and this HAS been mentioned many times. for obvious reasons.

The issues that do need tweaking are the column width/header issues, and multiple client behavior when the mouse changes screen. Neither one is major, and will likely be a fairly quick fix. Placement of new target and broadcast targets when the overview is frozen may need to be looked at as well.

I fully understand the desire for heavily combat oriented pilots to not have to look around or try to do something differently when in the midst of combat. We wish to be able to do certain things without having to think about it, so as to pay attention to more important things... this means when a change occurs it will likely receive a poor reception at first. This is understandable, but frankly some of the responses have been pretty silly.

I would suggest trying it for a few days before you pass judgement, allow yourself time to get used to it. The advantages are pretty obvious once you get past old habits.




I dont know anyone with a problem with ctrl freeze. The only problem it had was in the last year when ccp introduced shortcuts and broke it.

As for not keeping my mouse on the overview, how am i supposed to scroll through pages of targets in a battle and watch their relative positions without having my mouse on the overview?

I dont need to try it a few days, ive played enough to know this change offers no improvement and only offers inconvenience for pvp.

If i want to pod kill someone in amamake, even if it was a frigate 1v1 i would have to switch to a large battle default because his pod will appear at the underneath 30 station and celestials so i would have to use a tab without those things just to even see his pod on page 1. That tab usually being used for fights 50vs50 +.

Not a good change.


I do, and you can ask anyone that broadcasts targets to the rest of their fleet. That was one issue, among others.

The rest of you posts illustrates that you are either unwilling, or unable, to figure out the couple of tweaks you would need to make to your habits and overview set up to have things work better than you currently do.

Buddy, it's not that hard.



Its not that necessary either. Your posts indicate you just havent really thought about this change yet.

I do not accept change for changes sake, i would rather demand change to be an improvement. A working toggle would be an improvement.
Perhaps two function shortcuts. One that just freezes overview and locks. And another that freezes overview, locks and broadcasts target? - wow that was hard ccp.

You can go on accepting every ill thought out turd people throw at you while others try and point out that they are having turd thrown at them.

Now please if you have something positive to say about the changes and the simple things people can do to deal with them, please go ahead. Dont try and pacify people who dont see the benefit of these changes with condescension and arrogance.

Thanks.
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#70 - 2012-02-16 18:51:45 UTC
so in a fleet of 200, 199 have to suffer so the FC can broadcast more easily?

also Ranger 1, please tone it down with the 'you're all stubborn and need to get used to it' comments. Do you seriously think 90% of the posts in this thread would be about the overview locking if it were a case of old habits die hard?

here, i drew a picture: http://onebit.us/x/i/16b8cfc6.jpg
I think that overview layout is representative for the majority of combat oriented players

green is where 90% of the action took place, red is where we have to all the time now. Not to mention you first have to move your mouse OUT of the overview if you want it to update :S

(im sorry its a pve picture, i only had 3 screenshots in my folder)
StarRanger 2ndClass
Royal Star Ranger Family
#71 - 2012-02-16 18:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: StarRanger 2ndClass
donno what happend in the corp bulletins ... but its a mess now ... all the text are packed together, how could you not have seen in this in testing Evil

*edit
picture of the awesome fail ;)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/201202161849.jpg/
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#72 - 2012-02-16 19:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Funkert
i cringed when this almost turned into a I HAS MORE KILLS THAN YOU SO I KNOW BETTER kinda thread, however


Ranger 1 wrote:
Feel free to check mine.


i hadnt checked yet. Big smile You do know the year is 2012 right? i cant even remember what the mechanics were like in 2010 but i know that CTRL'ing on the overview still worked. You're still free to have an opinion but please stop lecturing people that 'they don't know any better'
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#73 - 2012-02-16 19:04:57 UTC
Please add a preference to keep the old CTRL overview lock functionality, so both "factions" are happy.

If CTRL is impossible because of shortcuts conflicts, just add a shortcut preference where a player can select a key to hold to freeze the overview like the old times.

We are in 2012, these things should be easy. I did them in Windows 3.1 with the ancient stupidly nasty MS compiler!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#74 - 2012-02-16 19:11:32 UTC
My Overview is garbled and spastic... unreadable and unusable... CONGRATS CCP this patch has made the game unplayable for me. I could tolerate the video card resets after jumping gates or docking... but now EvE Online is Money spent on USELESS Crap.

I don't have the money to keep up with the latest technology... my less than 1 year old 64 bit dual processing computer system is apparently no longer viable...

I quit the game over this kind of crap.... and came back.... this time I'm gone for good.

-1 cash paying customer

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-02-16 19:15:05 UTC
Hate the new overview, I don't see anyone who really likes it.

I have no idea why you guys would change a fundamental user interface in such a way. It's obvious there wasn't a demand for this change, and it also seems obvious that the change is regressive.

Also, the item-in-overview artifacting is terrible. The utility of the overview has gone down because you are now asking users to take an EXTRA step to get the previous functionality. This is a user design 101 NONO.

Want the old overview back. This change is rubbish.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#76 - 2012-02-16 19:22:49 UTC
Quote:
so in a fleet of 200, 199 have to suffer so the FC can broadcast more easily?

also Ranger 1, please tone it down with the 'you're all stubborn and need to get used to it' comments. Do you seriously think 90% of the posts in this thread would be about the overview locking if it were a case of old habits die hard?



First, if you or other posters took my statements as arrogance I apologize. I tend to speak bluntly... especially if someone has made broad (and somewhat insulting) generalizations based primarily on their personal preference with little (if any) attempt made to see if the new procedure can be made to be more efficient than before.

As to your first question, if the FC has difficulties broadcasting targets then everyone in the fleet is at risk. HE is picking the targets for you, this is why that behavior may need modification.

As to the rest, yes, it is often the case that 90% of the negative comments about a change are knee jerk reactions to something simply being different... without taking the time to actually try it out and adjust to it. That is not to say that there are not legitimate concerns that need to be addressed.

The trick is to sort "personal opinion based on immediate reaction to change" from actual issues that need attention.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#77 - 2012-02-16 19:23:57 UTC
Funkert wrote:
i cringed when this almost turned into a I HAS MORE KILLS THAN YOU SO I KNOW BETTER kinda thread, however


Ranger 1 wrote:
Feel free to check mine.


i hadnt checked yet. Big smile You do know the year is 2012 right? i cant even remember what the mechanics were like in 2010 but i know that CTRL'ing on the overview still worked. You're still free to have an opinion but please stop lecturing people that 'they don't know any better'


You do realize that Ranger 1 is merely my industrial alt, not one of my more combat oriented characters right? Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Teclador
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-02-16 19:36:47 UTC
Dear CCP,

i really ask myself, when the HELL did you last played your own Game?

This is an Spaceship Game in an Brilliant Universe, but with you newest Awesome Overview Fail Patch, this Game is like Playing Eve in Excel, i see only BIG FAT Tabs.

Now i have to use 50% of my Screen to get the same Information readable as before. Before i had used only 16% of my Screen to get the needed Information readable in Overview.

I really hope that you Fix that Issue whatever you called it.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#79 - 2012-02-16 19:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Ranger 1 wrote:
Funkert wrote:
i cringed when this almost turned into a I HAS MORE KILLS THAN YOU SO I KNOW BETTER kinda thread, however


Ranger 1 wrote:
Feel free to check mine.


i hadnt checked yet. Big smile You do know the year is 2012 right? i cant even remember what the mechanics were like in 2010 but i know that CTRL'ing on the overview still worked. You're still free to have an opinion but please stop lecturing people that 'they don't know any better'


You do realize that Ranger 1 is merely my industrial alt, not one of my more combat oriented characters right? Big smile


How is that even remotely relevant?

Put the epeen back in your pants and kindly start listing the ways that i can keep things on the overview in range order while im scrolling through pages of enemies?

How do i stop myself from getting pages of ghost entities on my left screen during the time i have my mouse over on my right screen without meticulously taking care to move my pointer around my left screens overview to get onto my right screen?

How do i get ready to point a wt capsule after his ship pops when there are dozens of enemies on field and his pod appears on page 3? Even if i scroll to the very bottom, his pod will appear off the overview forcing me to scroll down one more entry lol. I should be ready by not having my mouse on the overview? Thats an improvement how?

I thought you said it was simple, well enlighten us or just stop trolling.
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#80 - 2012-02-16 19:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Funkert
Ranger 1 wrote:
Funkert wrote:
i cringed when this almost turned into a I HAS MORE KILLS THAN YOU SO I KNOW BETTER kinda thread, however


Ranger 1 wrote:
Feel free to check mine.


i hadnt checked yet. Big smile You do know the year is 2012 right? i cant even remember what the mechanics were like in 2010 but i know that CTRL'ing on the overview still worked. You're still free to have an opinion but please stop lecturing people that 'they don't know any better'


You do realize that Ranger 1 is merely my industrial alt, not one of my more combat oriented characters right? Big smile


i'll take that as a yes to my question then Cool

(also what then is the use of 'feel free to check mine')


ontopic: we never fly bigger than 50 man gangs, but we very rarely use broadcasts for targeting. And fc's seem to have done fine up to this point ^^ every single pilot ive spoken to that had undocked today disliked the new OV though