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( ABSTAIN at very bottom) CSM is only a meta game with ramifications - other options when voting.

First post
Author
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#161 - 2012-02-17 21:10:45 UTC
yes he'd only be the guy heading the most successful alliance in eve
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-02-17 21:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
~heh~

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-02-17 21:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Killer Gandry wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I would think the fear would be on the part of CCP, because it would potentially reveal one of their big things to be a flop.


Or on the part of Mittens because then all of a sudden his gloating would be proven more as bloating.

The very worst case scenario for "The Mittani" is that he loses interest in EVE Online entirely, and turns his focus onto World of Tanks or Skyrim, or to some other hobby besides video games. The very worst case scenario for CCP is that their flagship product appears less appealing, and less money comes into their coffers from investors and subscribers. I'm not sure whether it's intentional, childish bickering, or genuine naivete, that's compelling you to overlook "the big picture".

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2012-02-17 21:48:06 UTC
Gather 'round, children, grandpa's gonna tell the story about the time when he was a very important person in an internet spaceships game.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#165 - 2012-02-17 21:56:56 UTC
Tell me a story...

Bark

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-02-17 22:22:42 UTC
We're all ears Johnny Marzetti

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Jenshae Chiroptera
#167 - 2012-02-18 02:16:27 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
I do understand where the fear comes from when discussing the option of an active abstain button.

It could actually show there are more people against the circus called "CSM" than there are pro-CSM people. As such the "glorious" position of chairman or woman wouldn't be as shiney as some try to call out anymore.



Thanks. Added to OP. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

JusFooling Around
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2012-02-18 07:29:46 UTC
As usual, this thread has disintegrated into a handful of Goony Toons (loved reading that ealrier) sitting on the sidelines sniping away like little children sitting in th back of the classroom making wisecracks while leading the OP through a set of hoops all designed to trip up the logic and discourage any real discussion on the issue. Yes, if they shout it down long enough, it turns to goo.

CCP has to realize that the only people represented by the CSM are the ones who voted, so the smaller the field of voters, the smaller the value of the CSM becomes.

Yeah, CCP - hire the pros and get a first class marketing firm as that guy said a few pages back.

This whole "high school student government" experiment has proven itself useless.

Let the power hungry satisfy their self esteem issues within corps and alliances and let the rest of us just a play a game devised and refined by adults. Why should the vast majority of players, who just want to play, have to organize and become more successful at power seeking just so we can dismantle that failed paradigm, anyway?

Just recognize the voter turnout for what it is - a small portion of the player base wanting to impose their views on the vast majority of the players who don't choose to play the part of the game they think we should.

And as that guy earlier said, go ahead and attack me personally for my bald head and any typos I may have made, but - OMG - stick to the nonsense, because we all want to avoid the real issue here anyway!

I should have quoted that single voice of reason, but hell, I'm no froum rat who knows all those little secrets.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#169 - 2012-02-18 07:39:03 UTC
JusFooling Around wrote:
sitting on the sidelines sniping away like little children sitting in th back of the classroom making wisecracks

More like Rokhs shooting railguns at 250km right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#170 - 2012-02-18 11:27:46 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

More like Rokhs shooting railguns at 250km right?


No-one cares.

Internet Spaceships =/= serious business for those of us who have friends and lives, sorry.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-02-18 16:05:05 UTC
JusFooling Around wrote:
As usual, this thread has disintegrated into a handful of Goony Toons (loved reading that ealrier) sitting on the sidelines sniping away like little children sitting in th back of the classroom making wisecracks while leading the OP through a set of hoops all designed to trip up the logic and discourage any real discussion on the issue. Yes, if they shout it down long enough, it turns to goo.

CCP has to realize that the only people represented by the CSM are the ones who voted, so the smaller the field of voters, the smaller the value of the CSM becomes.

Yeah, CCP - hire the pros and get a first class marketing firm as that guy said a few pages back.

This whole "high school student government" experiment has proven itself useless.

Let the power hungry satisfy their self esteem issues within corps and alliances and let the rest of us just a play a game devised and refined by adults. Why should the vast majority of players, who just want to play, have to organize and become more successful at power seeking just so we can dismantle that failed paradigm, anyway?

Just recognize the voter turnout for what it is - a small portion of the player base wanting to impose their views on the vast majority of the players who don't choose to play the part of the game they think we should.

And as that guy earlier said, go ahead and attack me personally for my bald head and any typos I may have made, but - OMG - stick to the nonsense, because we all want to avoid the real issue here anyway!

I should have quoted that single voice of reason, but hell, I'm no froum rat who knows all those little secrets.

Everything you say makes sense, and that's where you've made a grave misstep. You are trying to fight nonsense with sense, and that battle cannot be won.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2012-02-18 16:18:14 UTC
I'm a goony toon and I vote.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#173 - 2012-02-18 16:19:47 UTC
goonies toonies iskies

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2012-02-18 18:31:40 UTC
I like boobies.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-02-18 18:45:06 UTC
Vote for Xenuria so you can put boobies on your goonie toonie meight 07

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2012-02-18 18:58:34 UTC
Goonie toonies with boobies and weenies? And they say democracy doesn't work.
None ofthe Above
#177 - 2012-02-18 19:10:19 UTC
I see this OP is evolving, which is probably a good thing.

I seriously think what you are looking for rather than ABSTAIN is (no joke here):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_above

An abstain vote means you will allow others to make the decision for you. It is a formal version of not voting.

None of the Above (not talking about me) should mean to invalidate the election with no one winning if it comes in first. New elections with new nomination process would have to started.

In an election like this, not sure what it would mean if a real NOTA vote came in somewhere in the middle of the pack.

And yes that is the inspiration for my name.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#178 - 2012-02-18 22:29:34 UTC
JusFooling Around wrote:

CCP has to realize that the only people represented by the CSM are the ones who voted, so the smaller the field of voters, the smaller the value of the CSM becomes.


Thanks, added the meat of your post to the OP.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#179 - 2012-02-19 06:24:28 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
An abstain vote means you will allow others to make the decision for you. It is a formal version of not voting.


Sometimes the absence of something said can tell you things. The main thing, calling it what you will is to have the option to say, "We can vote but we have no confidence in them or their group."

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Skex Relbore
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2012-02-19 09:03:05 UTC
(I hate the way this ******* forum eats posts)

A "None of the Above" option would not significantly affect the outcome of the CSM elections.

All forms of government rely on the consent of the governed, Even the most brutal dictator must have the "support" of the majority of their people. In this case support being defined as satisfied enough with the status quo to not take action to change it.

There is this saying that 90% of the battle is showing up (This coincidentally is why we own Branch while WN. is couch surfing), this applies just as much to democracy as any other activities.

Those who are active politically are generally the people who are dissatisfied and effected significantly enough by the status quo that the value of their time spent on affecting change is greater than their alternatives. The corollary being that those who are least active are those who are generally satisfied with the status quo.

Here is a brief history lesson of how CSM6 came about. For the first 5 cycles of the CSM program the null blocks generally ignored it as being a mostly irrelevant PR whitewash by CCP in the wake of the t20 debacle. The CSM didn't significantly affect them so they pretty much ignored it.

Then CSM5 said "hey removing jump bridges is a great idea" and CCP said "coolio".

Suddenly the CSM didn't seem like so much of a joke to those null power blocks. So they did what any interest group would do when faced with such a situation,

They organized, They created a platform they organized their constituency in many cases in game enemies put aside their differences to work towards a common cause and because of the general apathy towards the CSM process from the majority of the player base and the fragmented nature of other constituencies they were able to have a disproportionate affect on the outcome.

This happened because they gave enough of a **** about the outcome to take action.

The fact is that unless they are adversely affected by the actions of the CSM most people don't really give a rats ass who's on it. What difference does The_Mittani being the CSM chair have on the average high sec dweller? The answer is not a lot.

The_Mittani may be evil but he's not stupid so you won't see him advocating idiocy that would enrage the average high seccer enough to motivate them into action so don't expect him to start championing nerfs to incursions or moving L4s to low sec.

His detractors can cry boohoohoo "goons are a bunch meanies" until they are blue in the face and it won't have any affect on the outcome, because the average empire pubie isn't negatively affected by him being CSM. In fact those who are rational enough to look past his corp/alliance tag to the stuff he's actually advocated and accomplished, end up having to conclude that he's actually a very affective CSM Chair period.


BTW does anyone else find it interesting that the people who cry the most about wanting a Meritocracy are generally the people that such a system would place at the bottom of the heap.