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( ABSTAIN at very bottom) CSM is only a meta game with ramifications - other options when voting.

First post
Author
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#281 - 2012-03-07 17:04:46 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:

Good for you. CCP clearly doesn't, hence the CSM existing. So we're right back to the "why do you think they care about your opinion?" point.


"Why do you think they care about anyone's opinion?"


They're paying yearly to fly some of them to Iceland for the 7th time. That's a good sign they at least somewhat care. Even if they didn't care and this is all PR, what skin is it off your back?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Jenshae Chiroptera
#282 - 2012-03-07 17:13:25 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
... if they didn't care and this is all PR, ?


Then I would be happier. Time and again, I have seen games eroded by vocal short sighted players.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#283 - 2012-03-07 17:28:03 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Then I would be happier. Time and again, I have seen games eroded by vocal short sighted players.


And far more often, I have seen short-sighted devs with no idea what players actually *do* in game ruin a game completely.

A good recent example - some devs spent 2 years focusing on this expansion that even at best would have added nothing but fluff, ignored the core game and very nearly lost the entire thing because of it. You might have heard of it, it was called Eve Online.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Jenshae Chiroptera
#284 - 2012-03-07 17:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Snow Axe wrote:

And far more often, I have seen short-sighted devs with no idea what players actually *do* in game ruin a game completely.

A good recent example - some devs spent 2 years focusing on this expansion that even at best would have added nothing but fluff, ignored the core game and very nearly lost the entire thing because of it. You might have heard of it, it was called Eve Online.


For all those years they had CSM and look what good that did them! Roll

Emergency meeting was a result of the riots and all they had to do was repeat what was very loud and clear all over the forums.
GMs, could have done that quicker with less cost.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#285 - 2012-03-07 17:45:30 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
For all those years they had CSM and look what good that did them! Roll


Wait, I thought you would be happy to see the CSM worthless and ignored?

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Emergency meeting was a result of the riots and all they had to do was repeat what was very loud and clear all over the forums.
GMs, could have done that quicker with less cost.


GM's would have been able to report how angry people are, sure, and their usefulness would have ended there. Would they have known to push CCP to put some very immediate focus on the whole Flying in Space thing as that's what people were truly angry about?

Also as an aside, why the hell do you care about "less cost" to CCP? Do you really think they're so stupid that they'd be flying a group of players to a foreign country if consulting their GM's had the same effect?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Jenshae Chiroptera
#286 - 2012-03-07 18:16:40 UTC
GMs only needed to read, think logically and consolodate the reasons why the players were angry. These abilities are not unique to players.

As for CSM, I am hoping it is just some glamour, drama, celebrity, PR stunt.

The key is that GMs would be impartial and not try to direct the game into conscious or subconscious bias that would be detrimental to the over all game in the long term.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#287 - 2012-03-07 18:21:56 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The key is that GMs would be impartial and not try to direct the game into conscious or subconscious bias that would be detrimental to the over all game in the long term.


The only way a GM's opinion would be even somewhat useful to CCP would be if they were still actively playing the game, which means not only would they be subject to the same biases as the current CSM players, it'd be even harder to weed out as their biases would be obfuscated by their roles, as opposed to the system we have now, where factions are out in the open, making blatant attempts to one-up your adversaries easy to spot and shoot down.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Jenshae Chiroptera
#288 - 2012-03-07 18:26:24 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:

The only way a GM's opinion would be even somewhat useful to CCP would be if they were still actively playing the game, ...


By that token you can say that the null sec focused players must be automatically disregarded when ever an aspect to do with other parts of space is brought up; as they are not actively playing there. Roll

It does not take more than an average understanding to see why an idea is logically sound.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#289 - 2012-03-07 18:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
By that token you can say that the null sec focused players must be automatically disregarded when ever an aspect to do with other parts of space is brought up; as they are not actively playing there. Roll


It doesn't make their opinion irrelevant (as they may well have played that aspect of the game, or currently participate in it), but it does mean that people who actively DO participate in that part of the game should definitely be taken more seriously. Hence why it's a good idea to find a candidate that plays what you do and back them, OR run yourself. Abstaining like this is a good way to ensure that the CSM becomes totally unbalanced, which nobody wants.

Either way, the opinion of active players is far, far far more valuable than non-active players (especially GM's, who may have been out of the game for long periods of time). Besides, assuming that GM's will immediately be impartial is hilarious, as I'm sure pretty much every faction has at some point dealt with a GM that was anything but. They're people, after all, and subject to biases just like anyone or anything.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It does not take more than an average understanding to see why an idea is logically sound.


This says more about your struggles on this topic than I'm sure you wanted to admit.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Jenshae Chiroptera
#290 - 2012-03-07 20:28:05 UTC
If anyone is looking for the point before the Goony Toon arrived it is here.

Snow Axe wrote:
Blah blah


The CSM will always be unbalanced due to the nature of people and the way that this game is structured.

GMs would be impartial and it does not take long for them to mess around a bit in Jove space enough to understand when player suggestions make sense or not.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2012-03-07 20:41:58 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

The CSM will always be unbalanced due to the nature of people and the way that this game is structured.

GMs would be impartial and it does not take long for them to mess around a bit in Jove space enough to understand when player suggestions make sense or not.


Aaaahahahahahaha. This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Never give up, little bat. Never stop posting things like this. Can't wait for the video of 2000+ GMs reenacting last night's battle in C-J6MT so they can understand any player suggestions that come up about it.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#292 - 2012-03-07 23:13:30 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:

Aaaahahahahahaha. This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Never give up, little bat. Never stop posting things like this. Can't wait for the video of 2000+ GMs reenacting last night's battle in C-J6MT so they can understand any player suggestions that come up about it.


Heaven forbid that anyone could make a to scale experiment and study. I am sure it is also impossible to eaves drop, record or re-enact with bots. There are no examples of this ever happening.Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#293 - 2012-03-08 00:11:45 UTC
Vote 'abstain' now: http://t.co/A8hmt7fh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

PsychoBitch
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#294 - 2012-03-08 00:30:46 UTC
Read the complete Platform here: http://www.eve-online-dark-taboo.com/vote/

If you want your vote to count just once in EVE vote for PsychoBitch.

Sick of CCP devs and their hair-brained, half-baked, blue-balled ideas?

Sick of self-important fat puds and frail half-elves on the CSM?

Sick of things in eve that should have been fixed A G E S ago not being fixed

and new errors being introduced daily?

Make your one vote count finally, vote for PsychoBitch!

If you are voting for someone who has been in the CSM before - you have wasted your vote on F A I L

Don't be a failure, be a hero. Vote for PsychoBitch now!

Campaign Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnOZAEbk7r0

If you don't drink whiskey - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE
If you don't like having sex with women - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE
If you don't live life on your own terms - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE

THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IN LIFE - ANYTHING WRITTEN BELOW IGNORE