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( ABSTAIN at very bottom) CSM is only a meta game with ramifications - other options when voting.

First post
Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2012-02-15 14:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Vocal minorities destroy games and giving them a soap box is the worst thing a game company can do.


CCP respond
What a surprise, at a glance, Test Alliance x2 , Noir, Volition Cult, AAA, Goons x2, Pandemic x2, xxDeath, Razor, Darkside - another year to look forward to with null sec dominance of CSM. Roll

GMs would be more impartial, especially since they usually apply for a public relations and not a gaming job. They could play in Jove space to get the hang of the game and understand which ideas are good to put forward from the forums., while greeting new players.

During the course of this thread, I have come to a realisation; that I have no faith in the CSM. I can understand the intentions of CCP in starting the CSM. However, the problem is that is has become a tool of meta-gaming both in terms of alliance status and in terms of trying to manipulate the game for short sighted reasons. Candidates stand and are voted for based on sides, interests and bias.
Thus, I believe that CSM detriment to EVE far out weighs any benefit and request the following voting options:

  • Abstain /suspend - actively declaring no confidence in the candidates or CSM and possibly having no CSM for a year.
  • Removal - believing that the system is irredeemable and should be withdrawn entirely.

See, the problem might not be that people are too lazy to vote. They simply don't want any of those people involved in the decision process of their game.

We should have the option to say, "I do not support this system and or group," or, "These people do not represent me."

--------- Original post below. ---------


There are some fundamental problems with democracy.

Tribes or groups of people will vote for a particular person associated with them.

For example, in South Africa, the Zulus, which is the largest group always vote for the ANC party which comprises of people from their tribe. They will even vote in a new leader who has forcefully removed the previous leader before the end of his term and is up on corruption, arms dealing and indecent assault charges prior to the election.

Null sec voting blocks.

Your control as a voter is usually an illusion.

Even in the best of conditions, your choices narrow down to only a few candidates that are usually chosen for you. You do not get to elect the entire bureaucracy, who make the day to day decisions. You have no recourse if those people do not follow through with their promises and have only told you what you wanted to hear.
There is no "neither" option on the ballots.

CCP developers and the CSM system.

Money and propaganda machines.

There are people financially well off and connected enough to basically shout louder than anyone else. They have the resources to hire people to go about spreading their information and making a lot of flashy displays.

Alliances with the ISK cushion; that can dedicate people to forums and favour trading in game instead of being distracted with the struggle to be viable.

Charisma is not the same as aptitude.

Politicians are not required to undergo IQ or personality tests. They do not have to write particular exams or prove their competency. All they simply have to do is convince you to vote for them.

Alliance or corporation leader are not necessarily good CSM material.

Tangents

There seems to be a growing tendency to destroy high security and worm hole space. There seems to be large vocal groups who instead of working as people to improve their social groups or to get their area of space made better for them, seek only to sabotage the other options so that people are left with no other choice than to go out there and be slaughtered as victims.

I would like to see areas being improved for the people that are there and enjoy that play style instead of breaking things to force others there.

There are some individuals that you might think are okay or that you like but have a look at the groups that they lead. They wouldn't be leading them if they were not liked and are similar to those people.

Edit:

The system produces particular results.
Player desires ruin games.


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Meanwhile, I am saying that this process / system produces useless people and results, which may mislead CCP.


Killer Gandry wrote:
I do understand where the fear comes from when discussing the option of an active abstain button.

It could actually show there are more people against the circus called "CSM" than there are pro-CSM people. As such the "glorious" position of chairman or woman wouldn't be as shiney as some try to call out anymore.


JusFooling Around wrote:
...
CCP has to realize that the only people represented by the CSM are the ones who voted, so the smaller the field of voters, the smaller the value of the CSM becomes.

Yeah, CCP - hire the pros and get a first class marketing firm as that guy said a few pages back.

This whole "high school student government" experiment has proven itself useless.


Just recognize the voter turnout for what it is - a small portion of the player base wanting to impose their views on the vast majority of the players who don't choose to play the part of the game they think we should.
...


JitaJolie wrote:
I would consider using one of my accounts to cast a no confidence vote on a particular candidate.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#2 - 2012-02-15 14:46:53 UTC
Well said


Also:
Quote:
the iron law of oligarchy

if you know what i mean Blink

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#3 - 2012-02-15 14:50:35 UTC
Stll, there is no better alternative to democracy, except a dictatorship with me as the dictator.

.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#4 - 2012-02-15 14:56:45 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Stll, there is no better alternative to democracy, except a dictatorship with me as the dictator.


There is. You simply need to look at the weaknesses of a system then look at improvements. For example, straight off the bat you could try to ensure that the people are competent before they stand for election

There are theoretical systems that have not been tried yet. One reason being that they threaten the way that democracy currently controls people while giving them a placebo "feel good" affect.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#5 - 2012-02-15 15:01:50 UTC
Quote:
For example, straight off the bat you could try to ensure that the people are competent before they stand for election

And who is going to ensure that, and on whose authority?

.

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#6 - 2012-02-15 15:08:41 UTC
What about people like me, or Trebor, or Meissa, all of whom aren't members of large alliances, who are on the CSM? Doesn't that prove that you are wrong that large alliance backing is required to be elected?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-02-15 15:09:54 UTC
i, for one, am disgusted that in this Massively Multiplayer game the system for input favors those who can make friends, instead of friendless aspies
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#8 - 2012-02-15 15:10:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
There are some fundamental problems with democracy.

Tribes or groups of people will vote for a particular person associated with them.

Null sec voting blocks.

Please add (for CSM) to your topic and then I will give you a like so you can run on in this democratic and transparent election.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jenshae Chiroptera
#9 - 2012-02-15 15:14:18 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Quote:
For example, straight off the bat you could try to ensure that the people are competent before they stand for election

And who is going to ensure that, and on whose authority?


"Who watches the watchers?" Public records and whistle blowing systems?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-02-15 15:16:28 UTC
Large alliances are made up of people with the same goals and ideals. People vote for someone who shares their goals and ideals. If I didn't agree with the goals and ideals of The Mittani I'd be in a different alliance. If fewer people agreed with the goals and ideals of The Mittani his alliance would be smaller. How is this difficult?
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-02-15 15:19:58 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Quote:
For example, straight off the bat you could try to ensure that the people are competent before they stand for election

And who is going to ensure that, and on whose authority?


"Who watches the watchers?" Public records and whistle blowing systems?

i have reviewed your posts and determined you are incompetent to offer advice or opinions, and most especially to vote

please cease doing so at once
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#12 - 2012-02-15 15:26:53 UTC
Two step wrote:
What about people like me, or Trebor, or Meissa, all of whom aren't members of large alliances, who are on the CSM? Doesn't that prove that you are wrong that large alliance backing is required to be elected?

exception proves the rule

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Indeterminacy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-15 15:29:58 UTC
Someone famous once said that democracy is the werst form of government...except for the all the other forms.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#14 - 2012-02-15 15:31:06 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

... and propaganda machines.

... shout louder than anyone else.

Alliances ... dedicate people to forums ...


Interesting, is it not; how the Goons piled onto this thread? Twisted

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2012-02-15 15:33:08 UTC
there are few dumber posts than "look! the goons are posting in my thread! this means something!"
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-02-15 15:33:56 UTC
unless of course you realize what it means: this is a bad thread and the people in it should be mocked

you, my aspie friend, fit perfectly into this category what with your rage against democracy because nobody likes you
Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2012-02-15 15:36:54 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
... because nobody likes you


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Charisma is not the same as aptitude..


Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-02-15 15:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
Err... does calling someone an "aspie" do anything for anyone?
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2012-02-15 15:39:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
... because nobody likes you


Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Charisma is not the same as aptitude..


Roll

why would you care any more than you would care if telepathy was different from telekenesis, they're both academic questions to you
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-02-15 15:42:11 UTC
waaah waaah aspie tears, let's nerf democracy because nobody likes me
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