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So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us?

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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#61 - 2011-09-07 10:40:30 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
if only the badposters could make up their minds:

either

1. the csm has too much power and is leading us on a ~road to ruin~

or

2. the csm are powerless pr tools and shills of ccp and completely irrelevant

pick one already



Or you could shut up and step down. You're not a balanced leader at all, and I think it's about time for you to relinquish your role to someone that knows how to do the job properly.

That is, someone who's had political training, and not some kleptocratic spymaster.

Just checking, but you are aware that political training usually consists of getting a law degree, and passing the bar... MAYBE some poli sci classes Roll

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#62 - 2011-09-07 10:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vin Hellsing
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
if only the badposters could make up their minds:

either

1. the csm has too much power and is leading us on a ~road to ruin~

or

2. the csm are powerless pr tools and shills of ccp and completely irrelevant

pick one already



Or you could shut up and step down. You're not a balanced leader at all, and I think it's about time for you to relinquish your role to someone that knows how to do the job properly.

That is, someone who's had political training, and not some kleptocratic spymaster.

Just checking, but you are aware that political training usually consists of getting a law degree, and passing the bar... MAYBE some poli sci classes Roll


Or simply by kicking ass at running your small backwater town in the middle of the hick woods, with no degrees at all.

In America, you can get voted to a leadership role without having to have a degree. Unfortunately, most of our leaders in the U.S. do not understand the concept of listening and respecting your constituents.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#63 - 2011-09-07 10:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
if only the badposters could make up their minds:

either

1. the csm has too much power and is leading us on a ~road to ruin~

or

2. the csm are powerless pr tools and shills of ccp and completely irrelevant

pick one already



Or you could shut up and step down. You're not a balanced leader at all, and I think it's about time for you to relinquish your role to someone that knows how to do the job properly.

That is, someone who's had political training, and not some kleptocratic spymaster.

Just checking, but you are aware that political training usually consists of getting a law degree, and passing the bar... MAYBE some poli sci classes Roll


Or simply by kicking ass at running your small backwater town in the middle of the hick woods, with no degrees at all.

Thats not training, that doing it. I never said you HAD to have the law degree, but that is the closest to formal training people get. Big smile

BTW, you do know that I pointed that out because Mittens is a retired lawyer, right? Shocked

Edited4smileys

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#64 - 2011-09-07 10:46:42 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
if only the badposters could make up their minds:

either

1. the csm has too much power and is leading us on a ~road to ruin~

or

2. the csm are powerless pr tools and shills of ccp and completely irrelevant

pick one already



Or you could shut up and step down. You're not a balanced leader at all, and I think it's about time for you to relinquish your role to someone that knows how to do the job properly.

That is, someone who's had political training, and not some kleptocratic spymaster.

Just checking, but you are aware that political training usually consists of getting a law degree, and passing the bar... MAYBE some poli sci classes Roll


Or simply by kicking ass at running your small backwater town in the middle of the hick woods, with no degrees at all.

Thats not training, that doing it. I never said you HAD to have the law degree, but that is the closest to formal training people get. Big smile

BTW, you do know that I pointed that out because Mittens is a retired lawyer, right? Shocked

Edited4smileys



He does not look old enough to be a retired lawyer. Remember the CSM Summit video? He looks more like a 30-something sprat with no clue how to tell the difference between an angry mouse and an angry bear.
pussnheels
Viziam
#65 - 2011-09-07 10:52:20 UTC
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#66 - 2011-09-07 10:52:28 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:

Just checking, but you are aware that political training usually consists of getting a law degree, and passing the bar... MAYBE some poli sci classes Roll


Or simply by kicking ass at running your small backwater town in the middle of the hick woods, with no degrees at all.

Thats not training, that doing it. I never said you HAD to have the law degree, but that is the closest to formal training people get. Big smile

BTW, you do know that I pointed that out because Mittens is a retired lawyer, right? Shocked

Edited4smileys



He does not look old enough to be a retired lawyer. Remember the CSM Summit video? He looks more like a 30-something sprat with no clue how to tell the difference between an angry mouse and an angry bear.


Go check, The CSM had to reveal who they were when they ran. For instance, Trebor wrote the Wizardry series of games in the early 80s, and Seleene used to be CCP Abathur. Don't take my word for it, find the truth for yourself.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#67 - 2011-09-07 10:54:01 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be

There actually was a major info campaign during the election, and I seem to recall there being one every campaign previously. You just can't force people to care about it by putting the info in front of them tho.

That would make the world into such a pleasant place, if people were willing to be educated Roll

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#68 - 2011-09-07 10:56:29 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be

There actually was a major info campaign during the election, and I seem to recall there being one every campaign previously. You just can't force people to care about it by putting the info in front of them tho.

That would make the world into such a pleasant place, if people were willing to be educated Roll


Here's an idea, let's turn the CSM into a running joke/meme to get people interested or knowledgeable. :p
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#69 - 2011-09-07 10:58:10 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be

There actually was a major info campaign during the election, and I seem to recall there being one every campaign previously. You just can't force people to care about it by putting the info in front of them tho.

That would make the world into such a pleasant place, if people were willing to be educated Roll


Here's an idea, let's turn the CSM into a running joke/meme to get people interested or knowledgeable. :p

Its been a running joke since it was created, up til the last CSM, and it hasn't worked to get people knowledgeable. Maybe now that its having an impact on their game instead of being a joke people will begin to learn Blink

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#70 - 2011-09-07 10:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Vin Hellsing wrote:


Here's an idea, let's turn the CSM into a running joke/meme to get people interested or knowledgeable. :p


Forced memes are never funny. Also the CSM has been a running joke since it was created.


edit: Damn you Tallian

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Vin Hellsing
#71 - 2011-09-07 10:59:19 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:


Here's an idea, let's turn the CSM into a running joke/meme to get people interested or knowledgeable. :p


Forced memes are never funny. Also the CSM has been a running joke since it was created.


Exactly my point. CSMs are never meant to be funny business, and it's been a running joke...we need to impress that on the community that it's on them to change that.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#72 - 2011-09-07 11:03:05 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be


I agree. Something needs to be done for the playerbase as a whole. I'm not talking just people on the forums, I'm talking about everyone in the game. Before the next CSM, we need to initiate a campaign, something that speaks to everyone, something that grabs their attention and tells them that they really need to vote.

A banner on the login screen would be a start, but there needs to be more than that.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#73 - 2011-09-07 11:03:43 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:


Here's an idea, let's turn the CSM into a running joke/meme to get people interested or knowledgeable. :p


Forced memes are never funny. Also the CSM has been a running joke since it was created.


Exactly my point. CSMs are never meant to be funny business, and it's been a running joke...we need to impress that on the community that it's on them to change that.

Well, it IS changing, and the fact that its changing is forcing, well, almost everyone in this thread, if no one else, to learn about them.

Hopefully next CSM will be balanced, since we have had 2 unbalanced ones in a row, and its been the first 2 to actually be able to make an impact. CSM 5 nerfed 0.0 with the anom nerf and the jb nerf, and that caused us to mobilize to prevent that happening to us again. This means this term, we are gonna buff highsec as best we can, and maybe, just maybe, that will in turn mobile the rest of eve, causing CSM 7 to be balanced.

To bad the WH peeps will never get anyone on CSM, since less that 2% of eve lives out of wormholes according to the QEN.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#74 - 2011-09-07 11:04:53 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

A banner on the login screen would be a start, but there needs to be more than that.

The banner has been there for every single CSM I have been part of eve for, as well as all over the home page, and in the news section there on your login screen.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#75 - 2011-09-07 11:08:38 UTC
For people to actually take the CSM seriously, then CCP needs to start taking the CSM seriously. It obvious for the most part that CCP only uses the CSM as a PR scapegoat and has since its creation. Granted these past 2 CSMs have had a little more impact then the previous ones.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#76 - 2011-09-07 11:13:54 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
For people to actually take the CSM seriously, then CCP needs to start taking the CSM seriously. It obvious for the most part that CCP only uses the CSM as a PR scapegoat and has since its creation. Granted these past 2 CSMs have had a little more impact then the previous ones.

QFT

As much as people are hating on Mittens for going to the press, its about the only way the CSM have right now to get CCP to take them seriously, since its that or more mass unsubbing. Thing is, mass unsubbing can kill eve and CCP before the problems can be fixed, so bringing media pressure to bear on them in going to be the most effective way to get heard without tearing down the company by taking away their money.

The CSM has only EVER gotten results by bringing this kind of pressure to bear, maybe now that CCP realizes that WE realize it, they will start listening before it gets to that point in the future.

Well, we can hope, anyway. P

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#77 - 2011-09-07 11:19:19 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be


I agree. Something needs to be done for the playerbase as a whole. I'm not talking just people on the forums, I'm talking about everyone in the game. Before the next CSM, we need to initiate a campaign, something that speaks to everyone, something that grabs their attention and tells them that they really need to vote.

A banner on the login screen would be a start, but there needs to be more than that.


I have an idea. We could set up a CSM awareness committee, one that sends agents to every corner of known Empire space and helps spread the knowledge/purpose of the CSM to the masses. Jita, Rens, Dodixie, Amarr, etc. Another is a video campaign series that points out an important set of guidelines on who you should vote for. Like, say...

"Vote for the CSM you think best matches your interests - don't go by what he says, go by what he does."

Stuff like that. Personally I am considering running for CSM, but I have my doubts.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#78 - 2011-09-07 11:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Vin Hellsing wrote:

I have an idea. We could set up a CSM awareness committee, one that sends agents to every corner of known Empire space and helps spread the knowledge/purpose of the CSM to the masses. Jita, Rens, Dodixie, Amarr, etc. Another is a video campaign series that points out an important set of guidelines on who you should vote for. Like, say...

"Vote for the CSM you think best matches your interests - don't go by what he says, go by what he does."

Stuff like that. Personally I am considering running for CSM, but I have my doubts.

Awesome idea. Go do it Cool

Seriously tho, no one is going to care til they see it impact their game. Your idea is a good one, but until highsec dwellers are feeling the nerf because CSM did so to boost nullsec, no one is gonna care enough to click the links. I recommend getting your propaganda all set up(just pro voting proganda, don't link it to any candidate) and start pushing it in the rookie channels after the highsec nerf hits.

If you run for CSM, make sure that your pro-voting stuff is NOT pro-you stuff, or it will lose some of its impact. I would actually recommend getting friends to do the voting campaign, so you can run your own(I understand its just about as demanding as campaigning for a real elected position)

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#79 - 2011-09-07 11:28:28 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vin Hellsing wrote:

I have an idea. We could set up a CSM awareness committee, one that sends agents to every corner of known Empire space and helps spread the knowledge/purpose of the CSM to the masses. Jita, Rens, Dodixie, Amarr, etc. Another is a video campaign series that points out an important set of guidelines on who you should vote for. Like, say...

"Vote for the CSM you think best matches your interests - don't go by what he says, go by what he does."

Stuff like that. Personally I am considering running for CSM, but I have my doubts.

Awesome idea. Go do it Cool

Seriously tho, no one is going to care til they see it impact their game. Your idea is a good one, but until highsec dwellers are feeling the nerf because CSM did so to boost nullsec, no one is gonna care enough to click the links. I recommend getting your propaganda all set up(just pro voting proganda, don't link it to any candidate) and start pushing it in the rookie channels after the highsec nerf hits.


That was the idea. It's like how the U.S. Government did a pro-voting propaganda drive during the Bush Presidency to get kids to vote.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#80 - 2011-09-07 11:29:50 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The major issue here is that the large majority of eve players don t care about the csm, i even know some older players who don t even know what the csm is or what they are suppose to represent
That is why we have a majority of nullsec alliance members in the csm
This is indeed a problem and should really be adressed , probably by using a major information campaign or something else

I respect the current elected csm members as individual persons thou i certainly don t agree with them on who they think are representing or their ideas about how eve should be


I agree. Something needs to be done for the playerbase as a whole. I'm not talking just people on the forums, I'm talking about everyone in the game. Before the next CSM, we need to initiate a campaign, something that speaks to everyone, something that grabs their attention and tells them that they really need to vote.

A banner on the login screen would be a start, but there needs to be more than that.


I have an idea. We could set up a CSM awareness committee, one that sends agents to every corner of known Empire space and helps spread the knowledge/purpose of the CSM to the masses. Jita, Rens, Dodixie, Amarr, etc. Another is a video campaign series that points out an important set of guidelines on who you should vote for. Like, say...

"Vote for the CSM you think best matches your interests - don't go by what he says, go by what he does."

Stuff like that. Personally I am considering running for CSM, but I have my doubts.


Exactly, there are too many people that don't even know what the CSM is. And even with the login screen banner, I'm pretty sure a lot of people just glaze over it as they rush to login to do whatever they want to do.

You recruit a mass of volunteers and dispatch them all over the galaxy, visiting systems and chatting with interested players, I am almost sure we can make the next CSM a CSM to remember.

I would be happy to volunteer for this. Someone make a video and I'll keep it handy. This could be really fun.