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So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us?

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Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#321 - 2011-09-08 18:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Astenion wrote:


Were it proven they were legitimately abusing their power, THEN you could unseat them. Until then, pay more attention for whom you vote.


If they were breaking CCPs given rules yer but other than that, say specifically focusing on one area of the game to the exclusion of all others, damaging the rest of the game to make that one part better, we have no recourse. Thats as legitimate an abuse of their power as the guy that got kicked off and banned was, but --IF-- this were the case, there would be no way to stop it.

What would it be called if you elected a leader into power then the leader could do whatever the hell they wanted as soon as they got into power? Democratic dictatorship figureheads (as they supposedly have no real power)? Thats an actual question by the way I dont know the actual corollary for this situation

Funny tho that the conversation has gone this way when I suggested they were elected leaders earlier I was snapped at for it lol

Stormhammer Investments wrote:
Here's a simple experiment to try if you need any convincing that the CSM does not represent Eve players generally and never really has. Take these names and ask the average Eve player if they know them:

The Mittani
Seleene
UAxDEATH
Draco Llasa
Trebor Daehdoow
White Tree
Vile rat
Meissa Anunthiel
Killer2

I do mean the average player. Not the ones who are members of the above respective corps.

I guarantee majority of Eve players do not know any of the above. The fact is forum posters represent a tiny minority of the total population and the CSM members a small minority of that minority.

CSM does not represent majority of Eve players. Fact.


Im gonna try it.
All the time Im in the game today, in local, Im gonna copy the names, post in the chat, "Do any of you know any of these names (this is a general ques

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Yakar Kunn
Perkone
Caldari State
#322 - 2011-09-08 18:56:06 UTC
Like a real world democracy, your only recourse is to vote for different representatives next time. Just because you disagree with the decisions and actions of your governing body doesn't mean that you have the right to overthrow or recall them.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#323 - 2011-09-08 18:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Stormhammer Investments wrote:


You can't seriously be suggesting alts be counted? That just helps vote rigging. I would be very interested to know exactly how many people did bother to take 30 seconds to vote and where did they all vote from?

If the majority of Eve players did not vote - and I see no suggestions to prove they did - then only the minority of overall playerbase voted. If you do count alts then that's the same as people going to a voting booth and wearing a false moustache or wig and voting repeatedly.

It really wouldn't surprise me if that is in fact what has happened - the majority of Eve players did not vote. Out of the minority who did vote, blocks of them banded together to rig it. Whatever the case may be I don't believe majority of players - alts or otherwise - reside in null.

For example, if out of 1000 people only 10 vote and out of those 10 90% vote for the same person then it won't change that 9/1000 voted for the "winner" and the other 991 did not.

My experiment still stands.


in real politics they do count up where votes come from and make that general knowledge known, it might help for the transparency angle for CCP to do the same.

Malcanis wrote:



But I'm not. It's the people who keep on trotting out guff like "90% of EVE is in hi-sec" who are very seriously suggesting that alts be counted equally to mains


lol I only ever said 80% an that was cause I specifically asked over a number of threads what the number WAS and every time I got the answer back it was 80% or so, so I googled it, and all the threads pretty much that I found seemed to say the same number. I incorrectly assumed there was a graph for this number. I was apparently wrong, as that one guy I keep asking for hid graph has yet to show it.

Vyl Vit wrote:
It's amusing. On the "Mittani Declares War" thread a CSM person is engaging in a discussion with a handful of folks that view themselves as the "real EVE community" (meaning the rest of us are chopped liver), and completely ignores posts by anyone but this chosen few.

I never lent creedence to the cool kids table in the middle school cafeteria. This CSM thing I hold in less regard. The combine of CCP and CSM has more to do with the mutually delusional psycho-drama the participants are indulging in than anything that exists in the real world. If it weren't so nauseating it would be laughable.


links please? I was following that thread but it died off last night an I thought it was dead

Rodj Blake wrote:

Perhaps, and I'm taking a wild shot in the dark here, it's because most players really didn't want Incarna?

Do people want to be able to leave their ships, walk around stations and interact with other players there?

Yes, a lot of them do.

Do people want to be able to leave their ships, walk around stations and interact with other players there at the expense of core gameplay development for several years?

I'm guessing that not so many do.




ugh I hate to agree with Mittens (but then what Mittens said was nothing but regurgitated speech from someone else first as he's not the first person Ive heard say this so its not that bad)

"We need stuff to do not stuff to wear"

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#324 - 2011-09-08 19:08:58 UTC
Dusty Warrior wrote:
CCP would be committing corporate suicide if it were to listen to the voices of the CSM as they represent very little of the playerbase. Yes... the CSM voice represents very little of the player base. Mittens himself admitted he only fought for things only his voters wanted. ...



There are very few eve players who are saying CCP is dedicating too many resources to eve. I don't think its possible to pick a more universally agreed issue than this one to spotlight.

Everyone complaining about null sec versus low sec versus high sec, here is the thing: CCP isn't putting the resources toward any of it!

Its not that Untold devs are working on null sec, 70 devs on low sec, and only 7 are working on high sec.

Reality is there are untold devs are working on dust and WOD, 70 devs are working on incarnatransactions, and about 7 are working on low sec high sec and null sec.

Until CCP assigns people to work on your area of space nothing will get done with it. Asking that ccp assign the resources to do that should be something that we can all get behind.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#325 - 2011-09-08 19:11:28 UTC
Cyrus Doul wrote:


If you want to do it, have fun with maybe setting it up so 3 people have to come from an alliance that has not had a 0.0 presence, 3 from low sec, and three from 0.0 (I'm including wormholes that you didn't know is 0.0 apparently).


Why not 3 from corps in high sec, 3 from corps in lowsec, 3 from corps in 0.0, 3 from WH corps, 3 from NPC corps?

Its 15, split pretty evenly. Theres what 14 on now? One more isnt that huge a deal is it?

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#326 - 2011-09-08 19:20:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Dusty Warrior wrote:
CCP would be committing corporate suicide if it were to listen to the voices of the CSM as they represent very little of the playerbase. Yes... the CSM voice represents very little of the player base. Mittens himself admitted he only fought for things only his voters wanted. ...



There are very few eve players who are saying CCP is dedicating too many resources to eve. I don't think its possible to pick a more universally agreed issue than this one to spotlight.

Everyone complaining about null sec versus low sec versus high sec, here is the thing: CCP isn't putting the resources toward any of it!

Its not that Untold devs are working on null sec, 70 devs on low sec, and only 7 are working on high sec.

Reality is there are untold devs are working on dust and WOD, 70 devs are working on incarnatransactions, and about 7 are working on low sec high sec and null sec.

Until CCP assigns people to work on your area of space nothing will get done with it. Asking that ccp assign the resources to do that should be something that we can all get behind.


This is the issue really. And its a bit silly for people to be falling into partizan pro and anti 0.0 camps and calling each other goons and pubbies at this point. We're all eve players ultimately and the problem is that eve online is critically-lacking investment of developer resources and everyone's gameplay is impacted regardless of where you play in game.

As for the title of the thread - well, get out and vote next time is the short answer.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Maimakterion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#327 - 2011-09-08 19:23:03 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:

Some of them are missioners. Yes there are NPC areas that have missions so I hear in 0.0 but Id have to imagine that would nearly be suicidal to run O.o


There are plenty of 0.0 NPC mission runners. Where do you think pirate faction ships come from?

Richard Hammond II wrote:

Some of them would like to get into 0.0 but there are douchebag gatecampers that sit in the highsec/lowsec gates with hundreds of ships and keep anyone from moving between highsec an lowsec/nulsec.


That's because high-sec bears will go through Highsec-0.0 gates and get nailed every time. God knows Goons have been camping EC-Torrinos for how long and people still go through it.

Richard Hammond II wrote:

One of my friend's main issues of not wanting to go to 0.0 is cause everything is claimed already. He says he has no interest in being a (his words) "pet", "meat shield" or a renter.


Tell him to find a better alliance/corporation. Barring that, get a group of friends and try to live out of 0.0 NPC (lots of people do this, btw).

Richard Hammond II wrote:

I woulnt have much interest in that either honestly, and I wouldnt be much interested in the game if it got changed to a point where it was no longer a sandbox and you were funneled into 0.0 after a certain point in the game.


~0.0 is the sandbox~ Except that the big kids have already built their sandcastles and won't stand to see anyone else kick them over. It doesn't help that CCP has made quite a few regions worthless for small entities by nerfing anomaly ratting.

Richard Hammond II wrote:

You (not the quoted, but others) say Im ignorant, Im HERE to learn. Provide me with links that dispute the information Im coming by, thay way when other people find this thread, THEY will learn too instead of just insulting me and calling me names.


No offense, but it would help if you had put more effort into making your posts readable.
DrDan21
Perkone
Caldari State
#328 - 2011-09-08 19:24:28 UTC
Yakar Kunn wrote:
Like a real world democracy, your only recourse is to vote for different representatives next time. Just because you disagree with the decisions and actions of your governing body doesn't mean that you have the right to overthrow or recall them.


Exactly, if you dislike your CSM why did you vote for them? If you didn't vote for them then blame your fellow players who didn't vote at all.

For example:
I didn't like President X, I didn't vote for him.

I liked Y I voted for him and encouraged people who also like him to register and vote.

If you get stuck in the "My one vote is useless" mentality then you don't have the right to complain.
Joffre Tremblant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2011-09-08 19:28:00 UTC
Dusty Warrior wrote:
1) I think it a horrible idea that any MMO company would allow their employees to participate with the player community beyond employee capacity. It's all cool if they want to interact with us, but to be a player in a playerbase corporation is wrong more than on one level.


Developers shouldn't be allowed to play the game they develop (or only on special occasions)? What kind of terrible pubbie logic is this?

I honesty can't think of many worse ideas than this one you've presented right here.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#330 - 2011-09-08 19:30:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Dusty Warrior wrote:
CCP would be committing corporate suicide if it were to listen to the voices of the CSM as they represent very little of the playerbase. Yes... the CSM voice represents very little of the player base. Mittens himself admitted he only fought for things only his voters wanted. ...



There are very few eve players who are saying CCP is dedicating too many resources to eve. I don't think its possible to pick a more universally agreed issue than this one to spotlight.

Everyone complaining about null sec versus low sec versus high sec, here is the thing: CCP isn't putting the resources toward any of it!

Its not that Untold devs are working on null sec, 70 devs on low sec, and only 7 are working on high sec.

Reality is there are untold devs are working on dust and WOD, 70 devs are working on incarnatransactions, and about 7 are working on low sec high sec and null sec.

Until CCP assigns people to work on your area of space nothing will get done with it. Asking that ccp assign the resources to do that should be something that we can all get behind.


Its actually far far less as ive seen or I think I heard it from Mittens in that interview. There was literally noone for ship design till they put one guy on it now. Ask Mittens he likely remembers what he said

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#331 - 2011-09-08 19:33:42 UTC
Joffre Tremblant wrote:
Dusty Warrior wrote:
1) I think it a horrible idea that any MMO company would allow their employees to participate with the player community beyond employee capacity. It's all cool if they want to interact with us, but to be a player in a playerbase corporation is wrong more than on one level.


Developers shouldn't be allowed to play the game they develop (or only on special occasions)? What kind of terrible pubbie logic is this?

I honesty can't think of many worse ideas than this one you've presented right here.


Agreed, this is terrible argument.

One credible school of thought for Eve is that things started going downhill after CCP overreacted to the T20 debacle by over restricting their employees gameplay and helping the developers to lose connnection to the game at large. So instead of one cheater getting fired we ended up punishing the player base by ensuring that developers who were once fully engaged and enthused by the game grew distant and remote we lost a special something that helped the game in the beginning.

Food for thought.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Joffre Tremblant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2011-09-08 19:33:54 UTC
Dusty Warrior wrote:
CCP would be committing corporate suicide if it were to listen to the voices of the CSM as they represent very little of the playerbase.


Maybe the portion of the playerbase that voted for CSMs is the portion of the playerbase that actually gives a **** about EVE in the long run?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#333 - 2011-09-08 19:35:30 UTC
Joffre Tremblant wrote:
Dusty Warrior wrote:
CCP would be committing corporate suicide if it were to listen to the voices of the CSM as they represent very little of the playerbase.


Maybe the portion of the playerbase that voted for CSMs is the portion of the playerbase that actually gives a **** about EVE in the long run?


Well that shot him right between the eyes :)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#334 - 2011-09-08 19:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Hammond II
Maimakterion wrote:


No offense, but it would help if you had put more effort into making your posts readable.


If I could I would, Im kinda on 2 500 mg Vicadin every 6 hrs till they fix my shattered elbow (three end bones in the joint are broken and the fragments have gotten into the joint itself) and destabilized shoulder lol so what I type I type through that haze. Youll excuse me if Im not gonna get sober and into that kind of pain to make a clearer forum post. Im doing what Im able to throught the haze at the moment
That wasnt supposed to sound assolish if it was , sorry.

DrDan21 wrote:

I didn't like President X, I didn't vote for him.
.


example: president is in power, president is doing everything he can for New England, making jobs, building bridges etc. He's doing this, and making New England more attractive to the people in the US by moving companies to the northeast and closing jobs all across the rest of the US.

YOU brought real worls examples into this, its not my fault it doesnt really fit here

Quote:

The current CSM -- as well as the previous CSM, which I also served on, and many engaged players in the community -- have become increasingly concerned about the future of Flying-in-Space component of EVE.


I see an inherent issue here.
FiS shouldnt BE a "component" of the game
Ive said this any number of times now
It SHOULD BE THE MAIN GAME

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Thomas Turnpoint
Doomheim
#335 - 2011-09-08 19:50:02 UTC
First time I've read posts by a number of CSM players.

What exactly are the requirements for candidates for CSM? Must be capable of trolling, grandstanding, have a condescending, pious attitude, and demonstrate proficiency at hurling degrading commentary that borders on questionable maturity levels?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#336 - 2011-09-08 19:51:34 UTC
Thomas Turnpoint wrote:
First time I've read posts by a number of CSM players.

What exactly are the requirements for candidates for CSM? Must be capable of trolling, grandstanding, have a condescending, pious attitude, and demonstrate proficiency at hurling degrading commentary that borders on questionable maturity levels?


if so, you're a natural.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#337 - 2011-09-08 19:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod
Malcanis wrote:
Thomas Turnpoint wrote:
First time I've read posts by a number of CSM players.

What exactly are the requirements for candidates for CSM? Must be capable of trolling, grandstanding, have a condescending, pious attitude, and demonstrate proficiency at hurling degrading commentary that borders on questionable maturity levels?


if so, you're a natural.



so... anyone that posts on the forums then? Cause if youre gonna troll him by calling him on that then youre doing it to yourself. As am I.

WAR

so Mittens has declared war then? Wonder how long CCP will let the CSM bring them bad PR before they pull the plug on them? Corporations arent known for being lenient in these matters...

unless theyre figuring theres no such thing AS bad publicity and they dont care cause EVE already HAS the "hive of scum and villany" label, they figure this news story will just bring in more

Quote:
Great, I don't run a gaming news site. How can I help prevent CCP alpha-testing World of Darkness in EVE?

lol I heard him himself say that saying this very thing was a PROBLEM IN EVE on the everadio interview YESTERDAY and now...
just lol

Quote:
You can do two things to help save EVE. First, and crucially, you can ensure that the truth gets out on the main Eve Online forums, which were recently converted to a new system that allows both rapid posting (no more 2 minute timer, thank god) and +rep. As a bonus, this involves tearing a cadre of fanatical pubbies into tiny strips of flesh. It seems that there are a few very vocal badposters who believe that the problem of FiS Neglect is literally a ~goon conspiracy~, and that everything would just be peachy in Eve Online if CCP just buffed hisec missions (again).

We do not want to spam or obliterate the Eve-O forums; instead we must take stern control of the narrative there to ensure that the badposters in that cesspit are not heeded by anyone of consequence.


Dont listen to the badposters just listen to us lol

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#338 - 2011-09-08 20:13:15 UTC
Thomas Turnpoint wrote:
First time I've read posts by a number of CSM players.

What exactly are the requirements for candidates for CSM? Must be capable of trolling, grandstanding, have a condescending, pious attitude, and demonstrate proficiency at hurling degrading commentary that borders on questionable maturity levels?


You need to be good at politics, so - yes, absolutely. You also need to be good at getting people to do what you want, even if or /especially/ if they don't like you.

~hi~
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#339 - 2011-09-08 20:27:51 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Thomas Turnpoint wrote:
First time I've read posts by a number of CSM players.

What exactly are the requirements for candidates for CSM? Must be capable of trolling, grandstanding, have a condescending, pious attitude, and demonstrate proficiency at hurling degrading commentary that borders on questionable maturity levels?


You need to be good at politics, so - yes, absolutely. You also need to be good at getting people to do what you want, even if or /especially/ if they don't like you.


Well, youve "declared war" so when do you fire the first shot and call for unsubs?

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Joffre Tremblant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2011-09-08 20:36:47 UTC
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:
Well, youve "declared war" so when do you fire the first shot and call for unsubs?


That seems like the last thing you would want to do in this situation. For one, there really isn't anything you can do afterwards.