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The Golem - The "Meh" of Marauders

Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2012-02-04 00:42:29 UTC
Some marauders are obsoleted "were best" ships made when the game had other restrictions (I.e. no MWD), no Noctis, Mach was just a shiny toy and so on.

They need a round of new paint like they did for AFs.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-02-04 01:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: OfBalance
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Some marauders are obsoleted "were best" ships made when the game had other restrictions (I.e. no MWD), no Noctis, Mach was just a shiny toy and so on.

They need a round of new paint like they did for AFs.


I could see someone still using a vargur, paladin, or kronos over their faction alternatives for various reasons: fit cost, ammo costs, safety in high-inc-dmg situations like a high end complex or bonus room. So marauders in general aren't obsolete as a whole. The point of this thread was to illustrate how the golem specifically is obsolete, even by comparison to other marauders, which as you just pointed out aren't wildly popular themselves.

Marauders don't need a crazy AF-level buff, but battleship-class launchers need fixing, and *cough* certain faction ships *cough* and strategic cruisers *cough* might need a little "balancing," also. It should be clear from the OP that the former reason is far more important.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-02-04 03:47:18 UTC
Excellent analysis! +1 to you,OP.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-02-04 05:45:39 UTC
Aoki Ayumi wrote:
Agree, and I thinck Golem should be buffed in some way. Needing T2 torpedoes to "reach something" is ridiculous, and happens in no other ship.

C'mon... 45 km max and 65 with expensive rigs and maxed skills? Are you mad?
Why all this hate to Golem users?


45km actually isn't that bad for a shortrange ship. It is more than a blaster rohk will get, and about the effective range of a pulse abaddon or an AC maelstrom. The problem is that all the ships that I just mentioned can actually hit a battleship that is sitting still for full damage when it is inside their optimal, without needing target painters etc. A golem can't... Oh, and a HAM tengu can get the exact same range (which no medium gun boat can say, unless it has an optimal bonus and the ship you are comparing it to doesn't, ex. the legion).

Personally, I think the best solution would be to allow rigors and that missile skill that reduces explosion radius to be allowed to affect torps/HAM's/rockets, give a range buff to torps so they actually outrange HAM's (maybe 25-30km w/ max skills before ship bonuses), more ammo capacity (maybe 40 shots instead of 20?) and make them travel faster, but have less flight time. With the amount of DPS a torp golem can put out, even though those changes still wouldn't let it swat frigates, killing cruisers would be easier and you wouldn't have to target paint battleships just to hit them. And you could choose to use range rigs or rigor rigs, depending upon which you felt would work out better.

-Arazel
Elemac Clemson
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-02-04 08:26:14 UTC
+1 OP

I fly caldari for RP reasons, but the golem was the first ship to really shake my faith in my race. It has all the makings of a really cool torpedo ship, but in practice it fails to deliver anything special unless I spend outrageous ammounts of isk on t2 rigs, an expensive shield booster, and a bunch of faction target painters. Without those things it is obviously worse than my CNR and probably not even as fast as my nighthawk, all the reloading considered.

Sometimes I wonder if CCP realizes how bad the large missiles have become over the years. I really hope there is a hybrid buff for some of the less effective missile launchers soon, that would really make my year. Lol
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#26 - 2012-02-04 10:51:05 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:
You dont understand weapons.Each weapon type has its pros and cons.Torps are ment as short range high dps if you want to use a short range weapon use a micro warp drive.


Unfortunately, Caldari ships are notoriously short on PG, which makes fitting a MWD on a Golem impractical. Especially when you fit torpedo launchers, which have higher PG requirements than cruise launchers.

You've probably never tried to fit a Golem.

colay Starwolf wrote:
Also you need a better understanding of the weapon systems.Turrets are based on tracking speed if you can track your target and hit you do damage based on how well you tracked the target and some other factors.However launchers dont need a target lock and always hit the target if you always hit every target for max damage thay would be game breaking.


You've also probably never tried to shoot a frigate with torpedoes. The don't do max damage, they do next to no damage. Try it, you'll be amazed.

colay Starwolf wrote:
Drones are ment to help bigger ships vs smaller ones if you dont want to use them thats your problem.


You probably don't fly Caldari ships a lot. Else you'd know that heavy use of drones is not part of Caldari doctrine and their ships are built accordingly. Hence Caldari is the only faction without any dedicated drone boats and their ships drone capacities suck in general.

colay Starwolf wrote:
Launchers are ment to do high damage to same size targets not smaller or bigger ones.


You probably don't use launchers or you'd know that they damage larger targets just fine. Especially unguided missiles are biased towards being better against larger targets. Unfortunately, torpedoes are unguided and the largest ship class you'll encounter in regular PvE are battleships.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#27 - 2012-02-04 10:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Exploited Engineer
Elemac Clemson wrote:
+1 OP

I fly caldari for RP reasons, but the golem was the first ship to really shake my faith in my race.


Especially since it comes with two bonuses that are actually Minmatar (shield boost + tp bonus).

Elemac Clemson wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if CCP realizes how bad the large missiles have become over the years.


Or, they could buff TPs. Enough that applying one of them means that the affected ship is in for some real pain.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#28 - 2012-02-04 10:56:17 UTC
---
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-02-04 19:54:48 UTC
As a golem pilot I heartily agree with OPs points.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#30 - 2012-02-05 04:32:58 UTC
When Golem was considered the king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

When the Vargur was considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

Now that the mach is considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preforms it.

Why is the rattlesnake not every considered the top L4 ship?
Because people spend time on guns for pvp and not on drone/missles.
As long as 3/4's of the players avoid heavy/sentry drones and those who do like drones stick with guns it will stay this way.

RS: Over 800 landible dps at very long range. Omni tank all L4's. Can run this way with a mwd for max speed and a nos to keep cap going even in missions that neut. Survives D/C's. Never waste a volley due to drones. Can pick dmg type.
Humidor Cigarillo
#31 - 2012-02-05 05:57:20 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
When Golem was considered the king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

When the Vargur was considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

Now that the mach is considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preforms it.

Why is the rattlesnake not every considered the top L4 ship?
Because people spend time on guns for pvp and not on drone/missles.
As long as 3/4's of the players avoid heavy/sentry drones and those who do like drones stick with guns it will stay this way.

RS: Over 800 landible dps at very long range. Omni tank all L4's. Can run this way with a mwd for max speed and a nos to keep cap going even in missions that neut. Survives D/C's. Never waste a volley due to drones. Can pick dmg type.


I'd love to see that rattlesnake fit.
Firebolt145
The Hatchery
#32 - 2012-02-05 12:08:49 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
When Golem was considered the king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

When the Vargur was considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

Now that the mach is considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preforms it.

Why is the rattlesnake not every considered the top L4 ship?
Because people spend time on guns for pvp and not on drone/missles.
As long as 3/4's of the players avoid heavy/sentry drones and those who do like drones stick with guns it will stay this way.

RS: Over 800 landible dps at very long range. Omni tank all L4's. Can run this way with a mwd for max speed and a nos to keep cap going even in missions that neut. Survives D/C's. Never waste a volley due to drones. Can pick dmg type.

Lol nop, poor troll.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2012-02-05 13:05:05 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Aoki Ayumi wrote:
Agree, and I thinck Golem should be buffed in some way. Needing T2 torpedoes to "reach something" is ridiculous, and happens in no other ship.

C'mon... 45 km max and 65 with expensive rigs and maxed skills? Are you mad?
Why all this hate to Golem users?


45km actually isn't that bad for a shortrange ship. It is more than a blaster rohk will get, and about the effective range of a pulse abaddon or an AC maelstrom.


AC Maelstrom is an awesome ship for its price tag, but even going all faction mods and having implants (I have multiple of them with multiple L4 Minmatar pilots) it won't deal sensible damage past 32-ish km. It will still kill frigates and cruisers but the range of effective damage is at about a maximum of 25km. Past that, killing battleships becomes a tedium.
Firebolt145
The Hatchery
#34 - 2012-02-05 13:11:10 UTC
In ^ situation you'll have to refit to 1200 arties.
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
#35 - 2012-02-05 13:39:24 UTC
CCP went too far with the projectiles buff giving them perfect damage type ammo.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-02-05 16:49:15 UTC
if dust is like tribes ccp win. i dont care who reads this.
Humidor Cigarillo
#37 - 2012-02-05 19:37:36 UTC
Bold statement from pr0xyyyyyyyyyy

This thread is now legit.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#38 - 2012-02-05 19:50:47 UTC
Humidor Cigarillo wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
When Golem was considered the king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

When the Vargur was considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preformed it.

Now that the mach is considered king of L4's the rattlesnake out preforms it.

Why is the rattlesnake not every considered the top L4 ship?
Because people spend time on guns for pvp and not on drone/missles.
As long as 3/4's of the players avoid heavy/sentry drones and those who do like drones stick with guns it will stay this way.

RS: Over 800 landible dps at very long range. Omni tank all L4's. Can run this way with a mwd for max speed and a nos to keep cap going even in missions that neut. Survives D/C's. Never waste a volley due to drones. Can pick dmg type.


I'd love to see that rattlesnake fit.


Here you go:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58826-Rattlesnake-Drone-L4-champ.html
Amarrrrrrddduuuudddeee
Zacharia Explorations Group
#39 - 2012-02-05 20:00:08 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
1) Limited Range - 40km for Faction/T1 torps and 60km for Javelin torps. 60km just isn't enough for a mission runner.

I get 72.8 km on a Golem, so about 70 km effective. ...


What is your fit/implants to hit out that far???
OfBalance
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-02-05 21:33:59 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58826-Rattlesnake-Drone-L4-champ.html


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