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Warfare & Tactics

 
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CSM Minutes on Faction Warfare
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#61 - 2012-01-18 16:24:29 UTC
Kagan Storm wrote:
i tought militia are random people that run around with guns and then go home and farm cattle..... Not a normal army....

So electing anything would be pointles. You have ceos of corporations that fight in militia warerafe.... you have individuals... if i have a 5 man fleat and you are solo you are gonna join my 5 man fleat and be quiet....


Seriously who the hell talks at those meetings? Somebodey with a serious OCD i can see... they wanna make a complex thing out of mining veldspar....


FW is fine... Works as intended.... you run around shoot crap... get LPs.... go home.... Now if somebodey wants to be a great military general who wants to build and organize stuff.... you have 2500 0.0 systems and 2500 WHole systems..... have fun there....


yup confirming we are band of cyberrednecks ...

... sometimes we see real null armies rolling over our corn fields and kill our cows ... and sometimes our cows bite their heads off .... bad moos, very bad moos ...

omg ... Roll
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-01-18 16:25:00 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Ive been in FW for 3 years or more.
Any change will be good.

At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.

All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.


You have not been logging in (that ive seen at all) and there has been action, alot of action recently and certinly many kills for all sides.

You are talking out of your bottom, sir.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-01-18 16:25:42 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
For solo mediums use a Caracal and just pilot well and they will never even hit you never mind break you. Also Battleships can't enter majors. Unrestricted yes, Majors no.

The current plex system has indeed increased the number of small scale pvp, it honestly just needs two tweaks.

1 - A reward.

2 - Spawns, Allowing a cloaked ship to delay the repawn by remaining in the plex is stupid. It would also be nice if no repawns took place until the minor, medium AND major have been taken. As often wts will just bail and reship for smaller ships if the numbers are not to their liking. Requiring all three are taking before a respawn forces the issue and drives everyone to the fight.



This. Exactly this. At least with the current mechanics the pvp adverse bears stay out of the plexes


One more thing to fix FW. Make it worth actually holding sov. Like reducing fuel consumption for POS, or increasing/reducing LP payout for FW agents. I'm sure there are 100 better ideas posted in the 100 other fix FW threads.

tl;dr CCP PLEASE listen to the people who actually play FW, instead of the nullbears.
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-01-18 16:26:24 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Ive been in FW for 3 years or more.
Any change will be good.

At the moment FW is gang green and needs to be cut of or have radical surgery.

All month logging in to empty FW systems and not much happening in channels.


gf
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-01-18 16:31:27 UTC
Maz3r Rakum wrote:
Make it worth actually holding sov.

agree. this is the thing prevented me from trying FW at all. Why war if you get nothing?Roll

i see what 0.0-sov alliances fight for. However i don't see any reasons to fight outside sov-space... Except fun. And fun disappears once you get used to it.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#66 - 2012-01-18 16:31:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.


High: 5 x aml
Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point
low: 2 x bcu
rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)

mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.

Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.

Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#67 - 2012-01-18 16:47:47 UTC
Maybe the CSM could have a chat with a couple of representatives from each faction to hear their thoughts on FW and what might be good fixes, and then bring those ideas to CCP

And then it would be super if CCP would talk to the FW community (dev blogs/something) before deciding on anything and to get some feedback on whether their ideas are awesome or terrible.

Because it seems to me that simply trusting the CSM/CCP to make up their own version of what is best for FW isn't really a good idea, since neither seem to have full grasp of what we, FW players, want.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#68 - 2012-01-18 16:51:59 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.


High: 5 x aml
Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point
low: 2 x bcu
rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)

mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.

Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.

Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).



this
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#69 - 2012-01-18 16:53:10 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.


High: 5 x aml
Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point
low: 2 x bcu
rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)

mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.

Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.

Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).



I respect that you can pvp in that ship. I really do.

I would never choose that ship for pvp.

I'm not aware of many that would. If I wanted to kill frigates I would put a web or 2 on there. If I was flying that and saw a typical pvp cruiser like a rupture thorax or vexor I would likely not stick around.

I guess my point is that plexing suffers because few people want to pvp in such fits. Yet due to rats those are the fits that make the most sense.

We can argue about whether people "should" want to pvp in these sorts of fits but plexes have existed in pretty much the same state they are now for 3 years. These caracals could always be used and they just haven't caught on.

The after downtime spawn change was nice and I am glad it has spurred some interest in plexing. But if the plex war becomes a priority again - like it was when fw came out and like it should be - then we will find the same old "plex and warp out if wts come" tactics are the most efficient way to plex.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#70 - 2012-01-18 17:01:22 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Maybe the CSM could have a chat with a couple of representatives from each faction to hear their thoughts on FW and what might be good fixes, and then bring those ideas to CCP

And then it would be super if CCP would talk to the FW community (dev blogs/something) before deciding on anything and to get some feedback on whether their ideas are awesome or terrible.

Because it seems to me that simply trusting the CSM/CCP to make up their own version of what is best for FW isn't really a good idea, since neither seem to have full grasp of what we, FW players, want.



I get the feeling that Hans Jaeggerblitzen (sp?) from Autoncannons Annonymous might be running for CSM. He seems like a good communicator and patient enough to act as a liason b/w FW folks and CCP. Rather or not he can get things done and not succumb to manipulation by Nullsec CSM is another issue.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#71 - 2012-01-18 17:01:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hidden Snake wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.


High: 5 x aml
Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point
low: 2 x bcu
rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)

mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.

Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.

Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).



this



Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point. You need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats.

Right off the bat you are hamstrung in what you can fly in plexes. People who say the rats have no effect haven't done plexes at least not for amarr militia.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#72 - 2012-01-18 17:10:31 UTC
The Assault Caracal (AC) has nothing to do with the rats, you are probably better of using heavies if that is the focus. The AC became 'popular' after faction frigs were buffed, which as you know came after the speed re-balance so we were suddenly seeing tons of ab frigs running around killing anything with traditional cruiser weaponry.
AC has more than enough range and still manage to pull off damage equal to gun cruisers if said cruisers were to field a similar level of tank ..

In short: Don't knock the Assault Caracal!
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#73 - 2012-01-18 17:11:08 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point you need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats.


I hardly call mainly anti-frig caracal an odd-ball fit. Pirates and 0.0 blobs of course dont fly one since it's not particularly good at gate camping or in big-ass structure grinds but in FW there are actually lot of frigs, dessies and 2nd line cruisers like stabbers around to kill.

Of course, while ago I took on keres, thorax and ishkur with that caracal. Ishkur managed to flee, rest of them died. So I quess good pilot can compensate for it's lack of hitting power Big smile
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#74 - 2012-01-18 17:22:20 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
So I quess good pilot can compensate for it's lack of hitting power Big smile


I allways say stop clicking start piloting .... that is why learning to fly frig is good for BS pilot later.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#75 - 2012-01-18 17:24:55 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Pulgy wrote:
I hope CCP realizes a lot of us joined FW to avoid/escape null sec stupidity...but then again this is CCP we're talking about.


Well, given how much manipulation that Nullsec CSM intends to do when they hold power again for this upcoming election, I wouldn't be surprised if FW and non-nullsec space is screwed over for good. From Mitten's speech on Branch;

Quote:
The parentheticals demonstrate the rule – the CSM can wield a frightening level of influence if someone of sound mind and a knack for political manipulation is in charge. The experience of the previous CSM demonstrated to everyone in nullsec the galaxy-destroying risk of locking random ignoramuses in a conference room with CCP Greyscale.

So: we are approaching Election Season once more. Last year we – along with other like-minded members of nullsec – swept the election and helped remake EVE into a spaceship game. There will be many more votes this time around, as CSM6 raised the stakes for the entire game. I will once again be running for the Chairmanship, and we will be fully mobilizing to ensure that the voice of ~the people~ (ie, our people, and everyone of like mind to us) is heard. This will be a high-stakes election, not merely because of the power we have created within the CSM, but because after blowing up thousands of miserable Empire barges, I suspect the pubbies don’t like us much!



Given the size of GSF now versus last year, it is safe to say that this will be another Nullsec CSM only interested in their own agenda and no one else.

Makes me happy that GSF are our allies :)

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#76 - 2012-01-18 17:53:12 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Please give the fit of the caracal that tanks the minmatar rats *very very easilly* even when you are in range of the button.


High: 5 x aml
Mid: 2 x regolith LSE, 1 x invul hydrocarbon mwd, long point
low: 2 x bcu
rig: 3 x cde (or 2 x cde and anti-em)

mwd to point, pop the rats while flying and orbit at capture range. Keep orbiting and pop the rats as they come. This works even for harder mediums (= non-outposts) without any issues. Initial spawn in harder mediums might put your shields to relatively low but by the time next spawn comes you have recharged pretty well and they will start at long range anyway and do miserable dps. If you are in no rush to button, you can of course snipe the rats at range but it's not really needed.

Minmatar outposts are not even an issue. Initial spawn is three frigs (one volley pops) and one cruiser. Following spawns composed of mainly the weakest of cruiser hulls available. As for minors, pvp arty thrasher handles any easily enough by one volleying any rat (elite frigate aside in minor strongholds) while sitting on timer and running it down constantly.

Do note that caracal above has 6k more tank than usual shield rupture fits I see around (= lse II, 2 cde, anti-em rig and dc).



this



Do you see that fit on any decent pvp corps killboard other than fw corps? Thats my point. You need to fly these oddball fits to accomadate the rats.

Right off the bat you are hamstrung in what you can fly in plexes. People who say the rats have no effect haven't done plexes at least not for amarr militia.



What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.

Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.

Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#77 - 2012-01-18 18:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
The Assault Caracal (AC) has nothing to do with the rats, you are probably better of using heavies if that is the focus. The AC became 'popular' after faction frigs were buffed, which as you know came after the speed re-balance so we were suddenly seeing tons of ab frigs running around killing anything with traditional cruiser weaponry.
AC has more than enough range and still manage to pull off damage equal to gun cruisers if said cruisers were to field a similar level of tank ..

In short: Don't knock the Assault Caracal!



Ok I'm not knocking the fit. You can kite other cruisers in it and take out smaller ships. I have no issue with that. I may actually get a few to plex in.

As to whether its an oddball fit. Well we can look at killboards of good non-fw pvp corps and reach our own conclusions whether its odd or common.

But it's one fit.

My point remains that several other more typical types of pvp cruisers(ruptures thoraxs and vexors) are not viable due to rats. Caracal and other missile based ships are going to be king of plexing because they can also pve.

I know damarr has said that plexing is now basically fixed after the downtime spawn mechanic changed. I disagree.

Maybe some others now think its fixed so long as they give more rewards than the tags we already get. I would just ask how much more?

I think they need to do more changes to plexes and not just add more rewards. I think plexing needed fixing before the crucible changes and it still needs some fixing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#78 - 2012-01-18 18:12:22 UTC
I'm not sure if CCP even enters the warfare and tactics forum unless a GM or Dev gets a petition about an offensive post or something. Anyhow, I cross linked this thread to eve general discussion.



Voice your opinions, protest, shoot a statue, keep posting on any FW thread. Maybe CCP will listen...
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#79 - 2012-01-18 18:53:14 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:

What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.

Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.

Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship.



Right adapt to your surroundings.

If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.

That is my point.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Mystical Might
Eclipse Pulsar
Fraternity.
#80 - 2012-01-18 18:59:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:

What works in Null doesn't often work in FW.

Adapt to your surroundings, aimlessly flying a fit from the KB and then wondering why it isn't working for you isn't good piloting. Flying an "ODDBALL" fit that gets kills... well if you need me to say.

Also Don't fly shield ruppies, my god such a waste of a ship.



Right adapt to your surroundings.

If ccp continues to spam npcs in plexes you will need to adapt your fit for pve.

That is my point.




I run the plexes in my daredevil and cynabal.
Sometimes my TenGuuu If I'm bored.
Don't rule the slicer out either.


Feel free to guess whether they're PvP or PvE fit.
I'll even give ya a little hint; They all have points, and some have webs.

Bear