These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CSM Minutes on Faction Warfare

Author
X Gallentius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2012-02-21 19:06:16 UTC
Mutnin wrote:

I'm not sure how the fighting is down in Amarr vs Minmatar at the moment, but up on the Caldari vs Gallente side there is a lot of actual fighting over the plexes as it was originally intended by CCP.
It would valuable to hear some first hand reasons on why this is the case.


Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#442 - 2012-02-21 19:38:44 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

I'm not sure how the fighting is down in Amarr vs Minmatar at the moment, but up on the Caldari vs Gallente side there is a lot of actual fighting over the plexes as it was originally intended by CCP.
It would valuable to hear some first hand reasons on why this is the case.





I haven't been all that active recently so I can't tell for sure. But the sovereignty wars blog seems to confirm my anecdotal experience - that the Amarr minmatar front had a very minor uptick in plexing but nothing to write home about.

http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/plexing-in-militia/

From my experience and what I am reading it sounds like you guys are getting allot more action in plexes.

I'm not sure why Caldari gallente are getting the larger increase than the amarr. All the changes were made to both fronts with the exception that ccp appearantly nerfed the caldari rats whereas the minmatar rats are still a pia. That probably has something to do with it, how much is hard to say.

I'm not sure what ccp intended, nor do I care, but it seems that the most efficient way to plex is still to set up a pve fit and find empty systems. If you are just looking for fights and don't really care about the actual occupancy war then yeah plexes have always been a good option.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#443 - 2012-02-21 19:56:04 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Cearain wrote:


[too much to quote]




The thing is most of your suggestions would pretty much kill Caldari's ability to fight gals blobs for the plexes, because most of your ideas are focused around pushing the fight to a specific location rather than allowing ability to do more guerrilla warfare using smaller numbers.

The fact that has always been consistent with FW as long as I've been in it, is one side is always more buffed up than the other. It's pretty rare to see both side equally matched up on a day to day basis for any length of time. Sooner or later one side always gains the advantage with the numbers thing.

This means any sort of plex mechanic that focuses the fighting to specific areas or rewards even more for blobbing, will hurt the fighting and eventually make people not bother fighting over them. IMO we don't need a reason other than the PVP to fight over the plexes. Giving some sort of system control bonus will just encourage blobbing out the other side to gain those advantages.


The suggestions I posted aren't mine. There are 3 suggestions. The one you seem to disagree with was actually hirana's suggestion to have border systems. I actually don't like that suggestion either for the reasons you point out. But it would help with the problem of people doing plexes and then just warping away if an enemy comes.

None of the suggestions I listed give any system wide advantages, so I assume that comment was aimed at someone else.

As for not needing a reason other than pvp: I would say it would be great if plexes could be a means to get pvp. But it would also be better if we could pvp for something other than pvp sake like in an arena. Some overaching goal that would bring an element of strategy that would be a big improvement over just having a bunch of meaningless arenas you can jump in.

In other words I would like it so our main goal is to win occupancy. However in order to achieve that goal you have to pvp allot. By "pvp allot" I am thinking between 4-7 pvp fights per 2 hours is what you should expect if you are trying to get the most plexes captured in that time.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#444 - 2012-02-21 20:03:58 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

I'm not sure how the fighting is down in Amarr vs Minmatar at the moment, but up on the Caldari vs Gallente side there is a lot of actual fighting over the plexes as it was originally intended by CCP.
It would valuable to hear some first hand reasons on why this is the case.




I think it's mainly due to you Gallente TBH.. Caldari has always had guys out plexing and so on with Dalmer and others but for what ever reason you guys finally decided to start taking systems while Caldari was mostly AFK.

I can remember time of going to Heydieles or Nisuwa with a Thrasher & popping open a minor with loads of Gallente in system only to watch the timer tick down with out as much of even a curiosity call from some FoTM guy in a Dramiel. I dunno what changed but for what ever reason, you guys are now willing to fight in plexes and now we are actually fighting in plexes instead of chasing away 1 week old noobs in vigils, atron & condors.. Big smile

X Gallentius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2012-02-21 20:11:13 UTC
Mutnin wrote:

I think it's mainly due to you Gallente TBH.. Caldari has always had guys out plexing and so on with Dalmer and others but for what ever reason you guys finally decided to start taking systems while Caldari was mostly AFK.

I can remember time of going to Heydieles or Nisuwa with a Thrasher & popping open a minor with loads of Gallente in system only to watch the timer tick down with out as much of even a curiosity call from some FoTM guy in a Dramiel. I dunno what changed but for what ever reason, you guys are now willing to fight in plexes and now we are actually fighting in plexes instead of chasing away 1 week old noobs in vigils, atron & condors.. Big smile
I think I know why this is, but I would like to hear others chime in before giving my response.
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2012-02-21 20:22:38 UTC
I don't know about everyone else, but I fight in plexes to have an advantage whenever some sort of FW changes come when DUST 514 comes out. Not sure if it'll be there or not, but I sure as hell don't want those squids owning more systems than I do.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2012-02-21 21:32:54 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

I'm not sure how the fighting is down in Amarr vs Minmatar at the moment, but up on the Caldari vs Gallente side there is a lot of actual fighting over the plexes as it was originally intended by CCP.
It would valuable to hear some first hand reasons on why this is the case.




I think it's mainly due to you Gallente TBH.. Caldari has always had guys out plexing and so on with Dalmer and others but for what ever reason you guys finally decided to start taking systems while Caldari was mostly AFK.

I can remember time of going to Heydieles or Nisuwa with a Thrasher & popping open a minor with loads of Gallente in system only to watch the timer tick down with out as much of even a curiosity call from some FoTM guy in a Dramiel. I dunno what changed but for what ever reason, you guys are now willing to fight in plexes and now we are actually fighting in plexes instead of chasing away 1 week old noobs in vigils, atron & condors.. Big smile



The reason is pretty simple. Damar and crew absolutely own the after downtime TZ. Any plex action that was done in EU or US primetime could easily be undone by Damar. There was no point to us plexing as it was impossible to beat Damar. With that point of view, we saw plexing as pointless. We also got tired of chasing alts around in plexs because 99% of the time they would run because they knew we didn't actually want the plex and could just come back later and take it.

After the changes, both sides see the possibility of "winning". Both sides want to capture the plexs. Both sides are willing to fight over them. It's actually a lot of fun. The caldari have very organized plex fleets lately that hit a plex and are forcing us to either let them have it or engage them "disorganized" as we generally cannot get the numbers + shiptypes to the location before they close the plex. The way things are going, both sides are continuosly learning from their mistakes and improving.

.

Vordak Kallager
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#448 - 2012-02-21 22:29:31 UTC
Some "Fixes" to "Fix" the current state of plexing.

1) Make Pirate hulls have the same restrictions as T2. Currently, there are way too many Pirate hull Dramiels and Daredevils that easily out-class the average T1 frigate. Alternatively, allow T2 frigates inside the Minor plexes.

2) Give the dead-space plex locations multiple access points. It is too easy for a fleet to get into the plex and lock the warp-in down. Having multiple access points to the same deadspace location would create a more guerilla-style warfare inside the plexes.

my 2cents

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2012-02-21 22:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Some "Fixes" to "Fix" the current state of plexing.


2) Give the dead-space plex locations multiple access points. It is too easy for a fleet to get into the plex and lock the warp-in down. Having multiple access points to the same deadspace location would create a more guerilla-style warfare inside the plexes.

my 2cents


The counter to this argument is that the fleet which locks down the warp-in point can simply just leave the fight if the opposition's new warp in not in their favor. Thus, a continued cat and mouse game

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#450 - 2012-02-21 23:42:46 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Some "Fixes" to "Fix" the current state of plexing.


2) Give the dead-space plex locations multiple access points. It is too easy for a fleet to get into the plex and lock the warp-in down. Having multiple access points to the same deadspace location would create a more guerilla-style warfare inside the plexes.

my 2cents


The counter to this argument is that the fleet which locks down the warp-in point can simply just leave the fight if the opposition's new warp in not in their favor. Thus, a continued cat and mouse game


Counter-counter is that you can do the same thing at stargates, but with a fwd or rear scout. Cat and mouse it the whole way through low sec. Cat and mouse is gonna happen. If anything, put a ceptor at the sun and pillage them as they warp out.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2012-02-21 23:59:25 UTC
Garr Earthbender wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Some "Fixes" to "Fix" the current state of plexing.


2) Give the dead-space plex locations multiple access points. It is too easy for a fleet to get into the plex and lock the warp-in down. Having multiple access points to the same deadspace location would create a more guerilla-style warfare inside the plexes.

my 2cents


The counter to this argument is that the fleet which locks down the warp-in point can simply just leave the fight if the opposition's new warp in not in their favor. Thus, a continued cat and mouse game


Counter-counter is that you can do the same thing at stargates, but with a fwd or rear scout. Cat and mouse it the whole way through low sec. Cat and mouse is gonna happen. If anything, put a ceptor at the sun and pillage them as they warp out.


Right. So if it's gonna happen anyway, no need to put in more layers for more cat and mouse and keep as is. Unless you see some other benefit to multiple warp ins?

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#452 - 2012-02-22 01:17:10 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:

The reason is pretty simple. Damar and crew absolutely own the after downtime TZ. Any plex action that was done in EU or US primetime could easily be undone by Damar. There was no point to us plexing as it was impossible to beat Damar. With that point of view, we saw plexing as pointless. We also got tired of chasing alts around in plexs because 99% of the time they would run because they knew we didn't actually want the plex and could just come back later and take it.

After the changes, both sides see the possibility of "winning". Both sides want to capture the plexs. Both sides are willing to fight over them. It's actually a lot of fun. The caldari have very organized plex fleets lately that hit a plex and are forcing us to either let them have it or engage them "disorganized" as we generally cannot get the numbers + shiptypes to the location before they close the plex. The way things are going, both sides are continuosly learning from their mistakes and improving.



Yes, but that is pretty much the same situation Caldari are in atm. You guys have guys that go around and un-do everything we do.. Last week our corp went over and ran somewhere around 15 plexes around Intaki area and by the time I logged on the next day one guy had pretty much de-contested everything we did.

Gals still tend to out number us and typically have higher skill point pilots on average in your gangs but we are still fighting. I hope that if things eventually become reversed that Gals don't give up on the fighting because it's been pretty fun so far.

Personally, I stay away from the big fights and try to work the back areas because you jerk offs always call me primary.. Evil
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#453 - 2012-02-22 01:18:21 UTC
As far as the plex ship classes there are still some things broken no doubt. I think they should should add a plex class and make 2 plexes that can be done in cheap ships.

I think this would work well:

rookie plex: (cheap ship plex): t1 vanilla frigates and down

minor plexes: all frigates including assault ships. Destroyers as well. I suppose interdictors should go here as well.

medium plexes(cheap ship plex): t1 vanilla cruisers and everything in minor plexes.

major gated plexes: everything except battleships and caps

Open plexes: Open

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815