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Oi, Oi, Oi - CONCORD Ships

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Boniface Lemurne
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#181 - 2017-06-20 03:23:05 UTC
What grinds my gears is that the proposed hull looks almost nothing like the Marshal advertised in the 'Updates' page. It's one of the most gorgeous hulls in the game that people have been waiting for almost a decade for. Please reconsider changing the hull of the battleship, or at least making it look more similar to the current Marshal.
Thomas Lot
Inmate Logistics
Warped Intentions
#182 - 2017-06-20 03:46:25 UTC
Trust is easily lost and not easily regained.

Within the last week, CCP Falcon and Quant through their asinine and inexcusable words, Hulls given was intentional, and1% of 1%, respectively, made the community acutely aware how out of touch they were, and still are, with the level of mistrust we now have with the developers ability to run the game fairly for all players. There has been no apology for their words, nor has there been an adequate explanation for why they made the statements in the first place.

Saying to the player base... "Don't worry, the ships will be available to you all very soon" is insulting.

We the honest players have long told the developers what the source of the problem is: Skill Injectors and Alpha Clones.

It is time to admit that the addition of both have caused more problems than CCP knows how to deal with. I will admit that I have bought some few skill injectors to train past the long train times of weeks to months at a time.


Nevertheless... convince me how CCP will prevent individual players from running more than one Alpha account and the removal of all ISK associated with the Concord Hull screw-up, and a report on how much ISK is removed, I hope it is in the Trillions.

Nothing less will ever do anything towards repairing the lost trust.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#183 - 2017-06-20 04:49:38 UTC
Thomas Lot wrote:
...Justified dissatisfaction...

You are completely correct.

The things done are outrageous and unacceptable! X

I will probably leave the game over this and it sounds like you will also!

In the meantime...May I have your stuff, please?...temporarily, of course.


Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2017-06-20 05:30:59 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
And anyone who set 500+ accounts up and got 500+ ships, set them all up on the SAME email.
If they didn't set them up on the same email and therefore far easier than your worst case scenario to track, they didn't get the ships.
So yes, you are still going on about a problem that doesn't exist.


Yup. So to escape this via multiple accounts and multiple email and getting ships on all those accounts means...multiple fanfest ticket purchases.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#185 - 2017-06-20 05:32:28 UTC
Djsaeu wrote:
Not a problem, I just cancelled my subscription today.


Can I have your stuff.

Players these days are just a bunch of pansies, aren't they.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2017-06-20 05:44:55 UTC
Uthgaard wrote:
If you read the GM's response, you'd have noticed the part about how much time it takes to track everything.

And how how accurate we were about all of the difficulties with tracking it.

And how there is a finite amount of time they can spend on this.

Following the money is not a magical process where you push one button, know all and see all.

It's grueling work with spreadsheets that makes most EVE spreadsheets look simple. Everyone knew this was an exploit, and everyone knew this was coming. Having personally tracked the flow of exploited assets in an MMO myself (more than once) I can assure you that most exploiters began with precautions to hide their assets. And they are creative little *****.

Some hope to lose you by process of exhaustion, with trade after trade after trade, through numerous accounts, in numerous directions, using various exchange methods. This is an annoying deterrent at best, but it is very effective at wasting available man-hours.

The smartest ones create reasonable doubt to keep you from distinguishing their assets from other players'. They acquire items from themselves on accounts that have no common identifying feature (VPN IP, separate email address, different physical computer or emulated virtual machine). By doing this, they blur the distinction between legitimate trades and their own assets. Done correctly, the evidence becomes murky enough that even if you are pretty sure about it*, you can't proceed in good conscience, without the possibility of screwing over an innocent player.

Seem extreme? It is, but it's also reality because anyone taking the time to set up 500+ accounts isn't doing it for the ISK. They're in it for the RMT, no doubt about it.

So yes, there is hiding of assets. Back to the matter at hand. I think it is worth the few minutes (for the staff, not the forum peanut gallery) to consider how they will make sure no one dodges their consequences, because it is not only possible, but likely.

* Pretty much every modern MMO scans the non-personal identifying features of your hardware, such as install path, computer user name, network name, and MAC address.


Reasonable doubt...what is this a criminal court? CCP doesn't need reasonable doubt. They can nuke your account from orbit then delete all your plaintive emails.

And as noted those 500 accounts to get 500 ships have to have the exact same email. So then what? They are going to send them all to just one account. That sells them. Then what with the proceeds? Create more accounts with more emails, VPN, virtual machines and so forth? How many are going to do this do you think?

And yes, ya numpty, I did read the GM's response. About 100 man hours to get about 70% of the work done. Yes they are going to hit a point of diminishing returns and call it a day. But lets stop go over somethings....

The problem players had to do all of the following:

1. Set up and SP farm.
2. Use the alpha ghost training exploit.
3. Buy a Fanfest ticket.
4. All their accounts have to have the same email address...or they bought multiple tickets.

Now out of this subset of players how many did all of this with the intent of expoiting for both the ghost training and the ships--i.e. have taken those steps you outline above?

I am going to guess not many.

But please go on being ridiculously butthurt.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

brainless moron
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2017-06-20 09:25:49 UTC
On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's 👍
Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
#188 - 2017-06-20 10:00:23 UTC
brainless moron wrote:
On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's 👍

Name checks out.

I mean who does that. Putting banana on a sandwich; what are we, animals?P
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#189 - 2017-06-20 10:31:52 UTC
Boniface Lemurne wrote:
What grinds my gears is that the proposed hull looks almost nothing like the Marshal advertised in the 'Updates' page. It's one of the most gorgeous hulls in the game that people have been waiting for almost a decade for. Please reconsider changing the hull of the battleship, or at least making it look more similar to the current Marshal.


I have to disagree, while the old hull wasn't bad, it didn't do anything for me, either. The new one looks sweet, though. Here's to hoping any additional changes make it look even better, instead of worse.
Djsaeu
Cresent Hawks
#190 - 2017-06-20 16:43:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Djsaeu wrote:
Not a problem, I just cancelled my subscription today.


Can I have your stuff.

Players these days are just a bunch of pansies, aren't they.



Not giving anything away, to just give things away means that I am only taking a break. This place has reminded me to much of real world politics. I am seeing similar things as in a election process, promise this and get something else. I come here to get away from the real world not to be reminded of it at every turn.

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#191 - 2017-06-20 16:48:26 UTC
Djsaeu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Djsaeu wrote:
Not a problem, I just cancelled my subscription today.


Can I have your stuff.

Players these days are just a bunch of pansies, aren't they.



Not giving anything away, to just give things away means that I am only taking a break. This place has reminded me to much of real world politics. I am seeing similar things as in a election process, promise this and get something else. I come here to get away from the real world not to be reminded of it at every turn.



You are assuming I'll give it back. Gimme your stuff, I'll sell it, refine it, or use it. If you come back? Who are you again?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#192 - 2017-06-27 14:20:46 UTC
So any updates from CCP? The clock is ticking.
This forum is toast in what, 3 weeks?

More and more it looks like CCP will simply hope that peoples' memory of this fades, and this thread in an archive.
Remember folks, CCP has a long history of backing way off on work being done, as so many dev's take their summer holidays.

Not that I blame them leaving.
Unless you like salmon fishing, and hiking to see stunning vistas of fire juxtaposed against ice, not a lot to do in a country with the population the size of a medium sized city.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2017-06-27 15:07:55 UTC
Zirashi wrote:
brainless moron wrote:
On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's 👍

Name checks out.

I mean who does that. Putting banana on a sandwich; what are we, animals?P


When I was young I liked my peanut butter and ketchup sandwiches. I even tried it on pancakes, but that was a disaster.
Maxi dela Tierra
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#194 - 2017-06-27 17:23:56 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
I think I am legitimately done with the game. Why bother playing the game and making isk when you can pull stuff like this and make so much more?


Yeah and i am done with my job. why bother to work and my boss makes so much more money by cheating and ripping of the customers?

Heck, i am even done with life. why not just kill myself? I am a honest hardworking guy who tries to make a humble living and so many others just got everything stuffed into their asses by their rich, shady parents.
Kixx
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#195 - 2017-06-28 10:16:19 UTC
I see many of these problems tied to the fact of the ghost training exploit that many people had claimed they reported weeks ago but CCP seemed to care less and say nothing about.

Ghost training was talked about so casually it had posts on youtube telling everyone how to do it and included was the fact it was reported and nothing was said back about it, giving the average player an opinion it was ok.

I don't see how you can treat an exploit so casually then turn on a dime in 1 day because it finally did something extremely harmful.

It WAS reported, they did nothing, and there should be consequences for those who did nothing.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2017-06-28 14:37:13 UTC
Kixx wrote:
I see many of these problems tied to the fact of the ghost training exploit that many people had claimed they reported weeks ago but CCP seemed to care less and say nothing about.

Ghost training was talked about so casually it had posts on youtube telling everyone how to do it and included was the fact it was reported and nothing was said back about it, giving the average player an opinion it was ok.

I don't see how you can treat an exploit so casually then turn on a dime in 1 day because it finally did something extremely harmful.

It WAS reported, they did nothing, and there should be consequences for those who did nothing.


Ghost training used to be a thing before Alphas, skill injectors and the like. You'd let your sub expire with a long skill and when you re-subbed you'd get the SP. It was like this for years. CCP then came out and said, "Nope, that is over." So irrespective of CCP's response now this was what can be called a "known exploit". That is people are taking advantage of something that CCP took out of the game. To be quite honest the most egregious exploiters should consider themselves luck if all CCP does is take away their ill-gotten gains. Being permanently banned is the typical response.

As for the harm, I'm not sure I see what you are getting at? What harm? The CONCORD ships? Meh...so they sold a bunch. If they were ghost training they'll have that ISK confiscated and even if not what is the actual harm? Was there too much ISK injected into the game? No. Were the players buying said CONCORD ships harmed? No. Did the presence of these ships harm the game? No. Maybe you can hang your hat on some sort of income inequality argument, but even there it may not be much more than another "meh" given the vast wealth many players have legitimately acquired. The biggest harm I can see is what might be called "optics" that this looks bad. But CCP has already stated they are going to rectify this problem by confiscating any and all gains made from ghost training accounts.*

*Hopefully only those that tried to benefit from ghost training--i.e. a player who let a sub expire and got the extra SP but did not extract and sell them probably should not be punished.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

greasy toad
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2017-06-28 15:07:02 UTC
I'm not seeing how any of this is CCP'S fault.

This is all down to you lot..the remaining players.

If I put my car in for a service, and i don't get what I've asked for i have 2 choices, i can go back and complain or I can go to another garage.

Not in Eve. CCP are not interested in any of your complaints because they know that you'll keep coming back for more. There is no reason for them to improve their service because most of you can't leave.

Try some other games and you will find out what OMPE means :)

Spurty
#198 - 2017-06-29 10:42:16 UTC
More ships than buyers tbh

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

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