EVE General Discussion

If CCP don't respond these 'lazy' people will just leave and go elsewhere. I know you don't have a problem with that but to me having a constant bleed of players cannot be good for the games health.

Yes CCP have failed changes in the past, but that is no reason to stop. CCP should be learning how to make better changes through their experience. Not simply giving up out of fear as you would have us do.

If someone leaves EVE cos they got scammed, that is their own choice.

There is nothing CCP can do about it, nor the rest of us, except to remind them to always follow the Golden Rules.

Losing something in EVE, is not a reason to leave EVE.

Loss is intrinsic to EVE. Sooner or later, one way or another, EVERYONE will lose.

You pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start again.

There is no way around this.

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As to this courier scam, the best a player that detests it can do, is spread as much info as you can around about it so that others dont fall for it, set up your own Citadel network that NEVER scams --->>>> Or, start running the same scam yourself.

You're still trading in a citadel with all the risk involved because you have no control over it. You have however control over a signed contract due to the presence of the delivery box. Simple as it sounds.

The owner still can turn the lights off and freeze your jc or assets whenever they wish which results in a perfect valid reason for citadel elimination. What you defend is basicaly wasting time that can be spent in pvp flavoured activities.

To put it clear so that your soappy brain can get it since, as you mentioned, you're not into citadels:

You could have ganked that hauler returning with valuable cargo if the delivery box would have had allowed the transaction; instead you have an empty hauler cruising down the pipe with a player bored and frustrated.

its the ibis that scans the freighter that leads to it dieing.

Furthermore on some days, all freighters that die, might have been scanned by the same ibis, and no freighter that wasn't scanned by that ibis died. ie avoiding the ibis might be all that is needed to protect your freighter.



No, CCP has in rare cases adopted and kept accidental systemic weaknesses, but imo they've gone further and designed them into citadels, to make sure that 2 citadels of the same type, fitting and rigging are not the same, ie the owner is the differentiating point, and the owner does (or will) matter.

The point of citadels is not to seamlessly and silently replace stations with some background conflict between station owners over decimal points, the point of citadels is to change up the gameplay of EVE, and make you invested in your choice of citadels

Compared to a station.

- The citadel can eat your private industry job materials.
- The citadel can eat your jump clones.
- Loss of the citadel can eat a non trivial amount of the value of your assets, and put them in potentially inconvenient locations (or into space in a wormhole).
- You can be blocked from docking at the citadel.

The purpose of being able to be blocked from a citadel is far more important than merely breaking courier contracts, as its there to break other things too, and there for you to abuse the anonymity of alts to work around it.

Again. I'm not talking about the curier or the scammer. I'm talking about how it affects the gameplay. Let's say you build a citadel with the intention of turning it into a trusted, successful, market hub, and maybe, once successful, freeze all assets in it and post another interesting to read player made eve story.

The design flaw will hurt you more than the parties you meantioned because the scammed has learn from it and the scammer has only the intention to provoke grief. How do you fix the situation? Because as you know, in HS, citadels pop up like mushrooms after rain.

Do you, as an hypotetical malicious genious, consider it is worth the time and effort to take on such a project? Does the damn delivery box favoos such context or rather denies it completely?


I think we all enjoy reading such stories, maybe we get inspired by them and from what I see most eve players take pride in player created lore. IF the game play allows it of course. Otherwise is easy putting on a troll face and turning a switch off with a dumb grin on our faces under the pretense of content.

The scammer is rarely just trying to provoke grief in this situation, they are making ISK. You see the owner of the Citadel IS the guy who made the contract (alt in most cases).

You fix the situation the same way you fix every other situation in EvE and that is by learning from your mistakes.



Well i mean a delay breaks more peoples experience than this scam does. Imagine a corp you thought were friendly turns on you during an eviction and are able to still use YOUR citadel to re-arm due to the delay.

The main point is that a Player Owned station should be completely under the control of the Owner, not every entitled carebear who doesn't want to adjust their strategy in the face of adversity.

That doesn't make any sense, this has nothing to do with convenience for me since i do not do courier stuff nor do i have anything couriered to my citadel.

A memorable experience can be memorable for good and bad reasons. A PvP fight might be memorable even though you lost, but could also be memorable because you win.

You can talk all you want about fairness and new players and stuff, but you're trying to force access to something that belongs to someone else, which is why you're not getting in

Buy your own citadel and you can start gaining trust as the honest one, maybe one day becoming the main trade station in EvE. That is how you fix the situation without crying to CCP. Of course complaining is easier than doing something for yourself, which seems to be why you're here.

Re-iterating for a third time, place an alt in the destination citadel and use it to extract the package once citadel is locked down. That is one of several mechanics that you could use to bypass this whole issue. Keep saying there's no way around it though i'm sure someone believes you... ..

EDIT : (it's being compared to ganking because they are both easily avoidable threats that rely on people literally not bothering to protect themselves. It's actually a really good analogy.)

A contract, as you know, is signed between two sides and it belongs to both and neither until completed.

I'm not crying to ccp or trying to get access anywhere. I'm talking about game play mechanics and you're talking about isk.

I never hauled, don't haul and never will. My only relation with haulers is target locking them and eventually looting or shooting their wrecks and I only use citadels to rep heated mods.

If you think I gain or lose anything from all this you're terribly wrong. You, however, seem to have an interest since you mention profit.

1) Any corp/individual/etc operating from the installation can turn hostile at any moment, anyways.
2) They are unable to dock after aggressing the installation, or supporting aggressors.
3) Friendlies can tether outside.
4) 24hrs is not sufficient to explode any maintained installation.
5) Courier scammers can still operate, provided the victim doesnt arrive within 24hrs.

The point has nothing to do with carebears.
It has to do with the ease of simply clicking a button to immediately evict/block someone.
A 24hr delay on access list changes does not seem unreasonable to me.
Even 6 hrs seems reasonable to me.
Just as long as its not instant and gives some chance for recursive action.

Well yeah, easy isk at no risk. Isn't that what carebearing is?