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[Mini-blog] The Next Steps in Structure Transition

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Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#141 - 2017-05-01 23:26:04 UTC
PyroSinus wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
PyroSinus wrote:
I originally asked this question HERE and it was recommended that I ask it here instead.

I have several billion isk in corporate assets stuck in null sec outposts that are impounded due to office rent lapsing. What will be the fate of these assets once CCP converts the structure to a Citadel and it is killed or repackaged?


If I had to wager a guess it would appear inside of corp deliveries in the nearest LS station/citadel in system... But I have no clue, just makes the most sense. I can't imagine everything just being deleted.

Can always test this, put down an astrahus, put something into a corp hanger, then unanchor it and see where the stuff goes. I mean it'll take you a few days to test this, but you have months to figure it out.


The assets are stuck in impound in Immensea class conquerable stations in or player deployed outposts. For me the operative issue is that they corporate assets that are impounded due to office rental fees being unpaid.

You will likely find they are in the same state once outposts become citadels - I doubt Devs will be changing how office rental works. So if your stuff is impounded now - It should be after the change.

Worst case, it will all be moved to asset safety and you'll need to pay to get it back but that is unlikely...

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#142 - 2017-05-02 07:10:43 UTC
PyroSinus wrote:

The assets are stuck in impound in Immensea class conquerable stations in or player deployed outposts. For me the operative issue is that they corporate assets that are impounded due to office rental fees being unpaid.


So I actually asked a few of our directors if they knew what would happen. Apparently there is still a corporate item safety they will get thrown into. They seem to think it will be the same going forward - impounded or otherwise. Logic being impounded items are effectively what item safety is today, minus the being moved to a different station. You still need to go to them and pay to get them back. But they find it very unlikely that CCP would simply remove any items from the game that would otherwise fall under any current protections under citadel mechanics.
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#143 - 2017-05-04 22:05:38 UTC
SO now we have a dev blog confirming this stupid change is going to take place. CCP has mastered the art of ignoring player feedback. Congratulations on ******* over most of nullsec.
Ebony Texas
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#144 - 2017-05-04 22:11:48 UTC
Of course Fozzie came up with the idea

since Provi- beat the mess out of his fozzie crap sov
Tian Toralen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#145 - 2017-05-05 21:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
I once thought it would be cool to have destructible stations and have the possibility to even loot them when destroying them. Also - null sec everywhere, no rules, new players can join one player alliance and that's it, no safety anywhere. As it is the case in real-world wars. I thought it would be cool and realistic to have that in a game. I see now I was naive.

Problem: a game is a game, and players in game do not react as people do irl. Maybe they do not even want to be forced to do that when playing a game. Players react as players - and players are known to burn everything around them just for fun, because it's a game, it's not irl, and that's how it should be. But because of this, the game becomes even more of a trolling game than it already is. Fozziesov added magic wand trolling, now - if there are no invulnerable stations, even more trolling will be possible.

"Let's just burn all Astrahus to troll the industry high-sec carebears, we don't care how much we lose, it's a game". And this will become the game of trolls, with fewer and fewer players really getting involved in the game - the MMORPG side of it. If you try to make a game "real" you cannot, by it's nature it is a game, you will end up with a trolling game, nobody will respect anything because of fear, or because of other things that make people keep the balance irl.

A game world cannot be kept "safe' by what keeps the real world "safe" (and stops us destroying ourselves with nuclear bombs for fun). That is why developers have to create artificial rules (like high-sec instant police), if they want to have a game world at all.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#146 - 2017-05-06 00:12:11 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:
I once thought it would be cool to have destructible stations and have the possibility to even loot them when destroying them. Also - null sec everywhere, no rules, new players can join one player alliance and that's it, no safety anywhere. As it is the case in real-world wars. I thought it would be cool and realistic to have that in a game. I see now I was naive.

Problem: a game is a game, and players in game do not react as people do irl. Maybe they do not even want to be forced to do that when playing a game. Players react as players - and players are known to burn everything around them just for fun, because it's a game, it's not irl, and that's how it should be. But because of this, the game becomes even more of a trolling game than it already is. Fozziesov added magic wand trolling, now - if there are no invulnerable stations, even more trolling will be possible.

"Let's just burn all Astrahus to troll the industry high-sec carebears, we don't care how much we lose, it's a game". And this will become the game of trolls, with fewer and fewer players really getting involved in the game - the MMORPG side of it. If you try to make a game "real" you cannot, by it's nature it is a game, you will end up with a trolling game, nobody will respect anything because of fear, or because of other things that make people keep the balance irl.

A game world cannot be kept "safe' by what keeps the real world "safe" (and stops us destroying ourselves with nuclear bombs for fun). That is why developers have to create artificial rules (like high-sec instant police), if they want to have a game world at all.

The only real positive about the coming change to outposts is - They will be removed from "Fozziesov" rules..
No more sov wanding shite - Shoot it - It dies (and is gone forever, unfortunately).
Exactly how Eve should be.

On the downside. If your alliance takes sov somewhere, you'll likely have no outposts so it will cost you hundreds of billions to set up somewhere to live, manufacture, mine, etc.

-- - -- - -- - -- - --
At this stage Fozziesov could be removed completely by tying iHubs (and upgrades) to the coming mining arrays and just removing TCU's completely by changing them to be an upgrade for a Citadel (Fortizar's and Keepstars only).

Current meta for taking or holding sov of "Griffins Online" is not fun, interesting or engaging game play. Time for a change!!!

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Ventius Ceveros
The Ceveros Cyndicate
Primary.
#147 - 2017-05-06 09:11:48 UTC
I don't entirely understand, does this upcoming structure transition affect hisec as well, and does this mean that the towers and structures my corp has bought and launched will be wasted?
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#148 - 2017-05-06 14:22:04 UTC
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
I don't entirely understand, does this upcoming structure transition affect hisec as well, and does this mean that the towers and structures my corp has bought and launched will be wasted?



HS Stations - no
Towers - yes

Expect an NPC buyback for those towers, which is typically the case when an item is made obsolete. Hmm... TCUs. Maybe.
Vladimir Stolichnaya
Rio Rancho Estates
#149 - 2017-05-06 18:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Vladimir Stolichnaya
So we currently have 69 “Immensea” Conquerable NPC Stations to be converted to Ultra Shiney Faction Fortizars
And 1335 [Total number built] Player build Outposts that will be converted to Shiney Faction Fortizars

All of which will be 1 of a kind, [ never to be made available again .... ever ] unanchorable prizes.

Can not wait to see the mad land grab to "claim rights" to these stations (especially the "Immensea" stations)
Just in time to claim them for day or so before the changes for the sole purpose of scooping them up the next.
Just to be sold, traded and horded as shiney bobbles by the stupidly space rich .01%



My .02 cents to CCP
Perhaps at some point in time between now and the upcoming changes you pick a random, untold, day to lock those stations down to their current owners.
If not, there is going to be a lot less places to call home in 0.0 as stations are carted away to be sold off.

But of course, that will never happen because stuff getting blown up is what pays the bills after all.
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2017-05-06 18:20:30 UTC
Vladimir Stolichnaya wrote:
So we currently have 69 “Immensea” Conquerable NPC Stations to be converted to Ultra Shiney Faction Fortizars
And 1335 [Total number built] Player build Outposts that will be converted to Shiney Faction Fortizars

All of which will be 1 of a kind, [ never to be made available again .... ever ] unanchorable prizes.

Can not wait to see the mad land grab to "claim rights" to these stations (especially the "Immensea" stations)
Just in time to claim them for day or so before the changes for the sole purpose of scooping them up the next.
Just to be sold, traded and horded as shiney bobbles by the stupidly space rich .01%



My .02 cents to CCP
Perhaps at some point in time between now and the upcoming changes you pick a random, untold, day to lock those stations down to their current owners.
If not, there is going to be a lot less places to call home in 0.0 as stations are carted away to be sold off.

But of course, that will never happen because stuff getting blown up is what pays the bills after all.
If you don't want them to be taken, defend them. You have a date for the changeover so focus your defences there.
Ventius Ceveros
The Ceveros Cyndicate
Primary.
#151 - 2017-05-07 01:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ventius Ceveros
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
I don't entirely understand, does this upcoming structure transition affect hisec as well, and does this mean that the towers and structures my corp has bought and launched will be wasted?



HS Stations - no
Towers - yes

Expect an NPC buyback for those towers, which is typically the case when an item is made obsolete. Hmm... TCUs. Maybe.


Thank you very much, Nasar Vyron, I'll inform my corp members that the towers will need to come down, and the equipment out there, or will the towers and arrays still function?
And are they doing the buy back on BPOs? Because we spent a lot on the Astrahus, EC, tower and array BPOs and all.
And please tell me it's optional because i'll not trade them if i can still use them.

I think that if they are removing the towers they should reduce the requirements to build a new EC because that's affordable for upstart corps founded by new players with barely anything, so they'll now have to start with an EC intead.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#152 - 2017-05-07 02:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nasar Vyron
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
I don't entirely understand, does this upcoming structure transition affect hisec as well, and does this mean that the towers and structures my corp has bought and launched will be wasted?



HS Stations - no
Towers - yes

Expect an NPC buyback for those towers, which is typically the case when an item is made obsolete. Hmm... TCUs. Maybe.


Thank you very much, Nasar Vyron, I'll inform my corp members that the towers will need to come down, and the equipment out there, or will the towers and arrays still function?
And are they doing the buy back on BPOs? Because we spent a lot on the Astrahus, EC, tower and array BPOs and all.
And please tell me it's optional because i'll not trade them if i can still use them.

I think that if they are removing the towers they should reduce the requirements to build a new EC because that's affordable for upstart corps founded by new players with barely anything, so they'll now have to start with an EC intead.


You still have a while on those towers. No need to rush and pull them quite yet. As far as I know when the Refineries are released the reprocessing/compression arrays will stop working and that's it for now. SMAs and corp hangers should still continue to function as they do now.

CCP will make an announcement when the change forcing all towers to offline goes through. They have not stated that it will be a part of the outpost patch. I highly doubt it will be at the same time.

I was merely stating that they will eventually be made inoperable, that's a certainty.
Ventius Ceveros
The Ceveros Cyndicate
Primary.
#153 - 2017-05-07 02:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ventius Ceveros
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Ventius Ceveros wrote:
I don't entirely understand, does this upcoming structure transition affect hisec as well, and does this mean that the towers and structures my corp has bought and launched will be wasted?



HS Stations - no
Towers - yes

Expect an NPC buyback for those towers, which is typically the case when an item is made obsolete. Hmm... TCUs. Maybe.


Thank you very much, Nasar Vyron, I'll inform my corp members that the towers will need to come down, and the equipment out there, or will the towers and arrays still function?
And are they doing the buy back on BPOs? Because we spent a lot on the Astrahus, EC, tower and array BPOs and all.
And please tell me it's optional because i'll not trade them if i can still use them.

I think that if they are removing the towers they should reduce the requirements to build a new EC because that's affordable for upstart corps founded by new players with barely anything, so they'll now have to start with an EC intead.


You still have a while on those towers. No need to rush and pull them quite yet. As far as I know when the Refineries are released the reprocessing/compression arrays will stop working and that's it for now. SMAs and corp hangers should still continue to function as they do now.

CCP will make an announcement when the change forcing all towers to offline goes through. They have not stated that it will be a part of the outpost patch. I highly doubt it will be at the same time.

I was merely stating that they will eventually be made inoperable, that's a certainty.


so what becomes of my drug lab , Structures like it, and all arrays?
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#154 - 2017-05-07 03:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nasar Vyron
Ventius Ceveros wrote:

so what becomes of my drug lab , Structures like it, and all arrays?


CCP Fozzie wrote:

In our May release we plan to end NPC BPO seeding and the building of new Starbase structures for the following Starbase structure groups:
Starbase Compression Arrays
Starbase Reprocessing Arrays
Starbase Assembly Arrays
Starbase Labs

Then in our August release we will remove the bonuses from Reprocessing Arrays, Assembly Arrays, and Starbase Labs.

This means that starting in August, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays will only provide a 50% refining yield, Starbase Assembly Arrays will not provide any material or time bonuses to manufacturing jobs, and Starbase Labs will not provide any time bonuses to research, copy, or invention jobs.


So August they will become nearly worthless to use. As far as a removal date, we don't know yet. I would venture to guess before the outpost swap.
Ventius Ceveros
The Ceveros Cyndicate
Primary.
#155 - 2017-05-07 03:24:14 UTC
Well thank you very much Nasar Vyron, o7.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#156 - 2017-05-07 10:53:26 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Vladimir Stolichnaya wrote:
So we currently have 69 “Immensea” Conquerable NPC Stations to be converted to Ultra Shiney Faction Fortizars
And 1335 [Total number built] Player build Outposts that will be converted to Shiney Faction Fortizars

All of which will be 1 of a kind, [ never to be made available again .... ever ] unanchorable prizes.

Can not wait to see the mad land grab to "claim rights" to these stations (especially the "Immensea" stations)
Just in time to claim them for day or so before the changes for the sole purpose of scooping them up the next.
Just to be sold, traded and horded as shiney bobbles by the stupidly space rich .01%



My .02 cents to CCP
Perhaps at some point in time between now and the upcoming changes you pick a random, untold, day to lock those stations down to their current owners.
If not, there is going to be a lot less places to call home in 0.0 as stations are carted away to be sold off.

But of course, that will never happen because stuff getting blown up is what pays the bills after all.
If you don't want them to be taken, defend them. You have a date for the changeover so focus your defences there.

I do so luv it when Goons talk to others about "defending" their stuff, like they know anything about it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#157 - 2017-05-10 11:36:51 UTC
I tried to skim through to find this answer without luck, but what happens to our outpost control towers, defensive anchorables, etc?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2017-05-11 16:34:54 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
I tried to skim through to find this answer without luck, but what happens to our outpost control towers, defensive anchorables, etc?

Wrong structure. POS isn't what's being replaced. Only the three POS modules listed are having special bonuses removed.
Petrified
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#159 - 2017-05-12 22:40:39 UTC
What happens with the current Outpost Eggs? Do we get reimbursed for them? Will they be converted to rigless faction Fortizars? Why allow outpost eggs to be built still if they cannot otherwise be planted?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#160 - 2017-05-12 23:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
Petrified wrote:
What happens with the current Outpost Eggs? Do we get reimbursed for them? Will they be converted to rigless faction Fortizars? Why allow outpost eggs to be built still if they cannot otherwise be planted?


https://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-119.5-release

Quote:
Existing copies of Outpost Construction Platforms, Outpost Construction Platform Blueprints, Station Improvement Platforms and Station Upgrade Platforms have been reimbursed in the following fashion:

  • Station Improvement Platforms and Station Upgrade Platforms have been removed and their owners have been credited with isk equal to their full NPC sale value
  • Minmatar and Gallente Outpost Platform Blueprints have been converted into Astrahus blueprints
  • Amarr and Caldari Outpost Platform Blueprints have been converted into Raitaru blueprints
  • Outpost Platforms have been converted into both 1 Fortizar and 1 Azbel