These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How many more players must we lose to bullying

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#981 - 2017-04-04 22:59:34 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


I don’t care if somebody does or does not want PvP combat, but it is a fundamental part of the game. If you are going to try not to do it, you’ll have to learn how to avoid it. And that learning is almost surely going to entail being in PvP combat situations and then learning how that situation could have been avoided.

EvE is to a large extent a trial and error process. You get an idea and then try it out and either it works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t work you stop doing it and or modify whatever it is and see if that works. The error is just as important, maybe even more so, than the successes.

EvE is not the MMO version of fishing in a pond. Not sure what MMO would correspond to that activity, but not EvE. EvE’s version is you are sitting there fishing in a pond on a sunny day, and unbeknownst to you, because you are dozing off, a pack of wolves are lurking up on you….



You are absolutely right. I will not argue that point. Somehow it seems that
CCP wants to attract more players and this topic comes up every week.

At the end of the day it is CCPs decision if they want to make Eve in to a
mining/fishing game.

Personally Im a coward but at some point I have to start fighting back on
those gatecampers, rats and whatnot.
Trained skills for Kestrel and Moa, they seem capable.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#982 - 2017-04-04 23:03:27 UTC
@Trasch Taranogas
get in a player corp
you'll learn faster with vets teaching you,
they will tell you towards what kind of ship to train etc :)
kestrel ok (check suitonia stream)... moa... not much alone (pvp speaking)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#983 - 2017-04-04 23:35:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
All I see is, "Please don't let more players in to ruin my income by competing for the glorified missions I spend most of my time running."

Mr Epeen Cool


You can't be so dishonest as to tell me you believe that anything I say has to do with imaginary space money. You know more people would make me more imaginary space money because I sell dead space loot, right?

I just don't get the obsession you people have with 'moar players'. What do you get out of legions of more people playing EVE, how is this somehow a pleasant that.

I don't care (so long as EVE have enough people for CCP to continue on with the project), again I just don't get the obsession.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#984 - 2017-04-04 23:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Soel Reit wrote:
@Trasch Taranogas
get in a player corp
you'll learn faster with vets teaching you,
they will tell you towards what kind of ship to train etc :)
kestrel ok (check suitonia stream)... moa... not much alone (pvp speaking)


Im (dare I say) looking to join Signal Cartel...

They have popped up a few time in Youtubes
exploring videos.

Seems like a nice chill way to actually start interacting
with other players.
Although they seem very strict on PvP with main.

Edit: I could fire up Trasch again and do alpha PvP.

Edit 2: On the other hand Im fully trained CovOp so...

Decisions, decisions...

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#985 - 2017-04-05 00:18:36 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


I don’t care if somebody does or does not want PvP combat, but it is a fundamental part of the game. If you are going to try not to do it, you’ll have to learn how to avoid it. And that learning is almost surely going to entail being in PvP combat situations and then learning how that situation could have been avoided.

EvE is to a large extent a trial and error process. You get an idea and then try it out and either it works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t work you stop doing it and or modify whatever it is and see if that works. The error is just as important, maybe even more so, than the successes.

EvE is not the MMO version of fishing in a pond. Not sure what MMO would correspond to that activity, but not EvE. EvE’s version is you are sitting there fishing in a pond on a sunny day, and unbeknownst to you, because you are dozing off, a pack of wolves are lurking up on you….



You are absolutely right. I will not argue that point. Somehow it seems that
CCP wants to attract more players and this topic comes up every week.

At the end of the day it is CCPs decision if they want to make Eve in to a
mining/fishing game.

Personally Im a coward but at some point I have to start fighting back on
those gatecampers, rats and whatnot.
Trained skills for Kestrel and Moa, they seem capable.


The problem is this is not a game for everyone and to attract those who don't want to play you will likely have to make drastic changes...and thus risk your current player base leaving (at least in large part). Yes, HS+ as it is not being called cannot be meshed with the current state of the game IMO. If you put it in, to balance it it will have to pretty bad in terms of things like missions, resources, etc. So people will show up and say, "Oh, well this is boring." Somebody says, "Lets go into the other systems", and since they have only lived in this sheltered environment what do you think will happen when they run into somebody with hostile intent? Remember these are players who want to fish in a pond why dozing off so to speak. My guess they'll get stomped, head back to the boring HS+ system(s) get bored....then quit.

If you make it interesting and that entails affecting the game economy with little risk...then it could be very unbalanced.

Also, Jenn and Salvos have made similar points about the NPE. Perhaps it is too good. It holds the players hand too much, and when done are kicked into the deep end unceremoniously. Could that be a problem? It sounds counter intuitive, but maybe it is. Maybe it lets the player think they are prepared when in fact they really aren't. A misalignment or expectations and reality.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#986 - 2017-04-05 00:22:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
All I see is, "Please don't let more players in to ruin my income by competing for the glorified missions I spend most of my time running."

Mr Epeen Cool


You can't be so dishonest as to tell me you believe that anything I say has to do with imaginary space money. You know more people would make me more imaginary space money because I sell dead space loot, right?

I just don't get the obsession you people have with 'moar players'. What do you get out of legions of more people playing EVE, how is this somehow a pleasant that.

I don't care (so long as EVE have enough people for CCP to continue on with the project), again I just don't get the obsession.



I wouldn't mind more players, but then again that is a rather mild statement.

What I do think is very risky are these crazy ideas. It risks the current player base for some mythical fantasy of MMO nirvana.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Hydrium Eternite
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#987 - 2017-04-05 00:29:45 UTC
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#988 - 2017-04-05 00:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Coralas
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
My dear boy I had a look at the possibilities in hisec and found that it was too far gone, the mechanics were against it and CCP were too biased towards the gankers as the wreck EHP change showed, you might prove me wrong, I hope you do.

If even Highsec is too hard for you not sure what's left for you in this game. Maybe make up more stuff on the forums, that seams to be your thing this days. But you even seam to fail at forum PvP, oh dear...


It's pretty easy to win an argument when all you do is troll, contribute nothing, and claim victory regardless of anything that's been said. You'll claim this post as tears so you can continue as the winner. It's pathetic watching the locker room high-fiving going on in this thread.

It's been said that what I'm looking for exists in renting sov out in null. Isn't it ass backwards that the safe space is located in... The lawless space and the dangerous space is located in... The protected systems. Highsec is seriously broken and it takes a blind man not to see it.


I rented a system solo for 6 months on my old account. The landlord keeps the sovereign infrastructure safe (ie they'll contest the timer). That is mostly all they do. They certainly do not sit in a camp at the edge of the area keeping neutrals out.

They don't stop small or large gangs coming through your system, they don't stop cloaky campers, and they don't stop individuals in t3s and scan frigates coming to "steal" your content. As a solo renter, I alternatively avoided offering content to pvp gangs, made it difficult for the t3 and scan frigates to run content or killed the individual if I could in order to actually keep signatures for myself. Was pretty rare for me to rack up 3 ticks in a row or finish a ded 7 without interruption, and in my whole career thats been the only time I've regularly run up PVP kills.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#989 - 2017-04-05 00:46:14 UTC
Hydrium Eternite wrote:
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.


Sadly, cautionary tales don't work when pit against people's unmovable personal ideologies.

Even if CCP did what SWG did (forsook the current player base in hopes of gaining a larger mainstream audience), ran off all it's players, and had to shut down EVE, the people who think that the game wasn't safe enough would literally go to their graves believing that it was the gankers/war deccers/scammers /whatever's fault it happened.


It doesn't matter a bit to them. Many of them are the same people who proclaim that some new game is going to "kill EVE", and when that new game comes and goes and EVE still exists they just clamp on to a new upcoming game and start it all over again. Star Citizen is just the latest in a long line.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#990 - 2017-04-05 00:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Hydrium Eternite wrote:
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.


I like this story one can learn a great deal from it. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush huh.

Eve is a great game and if they stay close to the original founders vision then they will get a lifetime subscription from me. The amount of times in my life I have seen people come along and change things and then abandon ship. Even if their changes are implemented they will still abandon ship. I'm honestly glad that CCP are rigid in what they want as their game design.

CCP, Regarding this Beck dude, I'd say that people do change and people should be given a chance to show it. Advise him to take some Valerian so he can keep calm and perhaps see if you can get him on board even if its just on an advisory basis. If you want all of the space MMO prospective customers playing Eve then Beck sounds like the man to get it for you. Life is too short to hold grudges,. CCP endorse teamwork in their game and I think it should be endorsed in real life with this Beck situation... give the guy a call .

Did you know that the creator of the old school movie Total Recall was a schizophrenic? Some of the greatest minds in history had problems.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#991 - 2017-04-05 02:05:37 UTC
Hydrium Eternite wrote:
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.



Such analogies can help you consider options but should be taken with a grain of salt.
Each game environment will have its similarities but it will also be its own unique universe of considerations.

Taking to heart all such possible warnings and examples out there would paralyze any strategy session to consider options that occur outside the scope of the so called base leaving a very narrow base of expansion.

Sometimes in business you need to take a risk outside the scope of what most think is reasonable in order to create a new market space. Sometimes things fall into place, sometimes they don't.

There is no such thing as perfect business sense. If there was, there would never be golden opportunities to take advantage of what everyone else thought was impossible.

Playing only to your base will leave you permanently in a universe of lethargic growth and the guarantee eventual decline.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#992 - 2017-04-05 05:53:38 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Hydrium Eternite wrote:
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.



Such analogies can help you consider options but should be taken with a grain of salt.
Each game environment will have its similarities but it will also be its own unique universe of considerations.

Taking to heart all such possible warnings and examples out there would paralyze any strategy session to consider options that occur outside the scope of the so called base leaving a very narrow base of expansion.

Sometimes in business you need to take a risk outside the scope of what most think is reasonable in order to create a new market space. Sometimes things fall into place, sometimes they don't.

There is no such thing as perfect business sense. If there was, there would never be golden opportunities to take advantage of what everyone else thought was impossible.

Playing only to your base will leave you permanently in a universe of lethargic growth and the guarantee eventual decline.



There is risk, then there is uncertainty.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#993 - 2017-04-05 06:00:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I am not sure where you got the impression I was a leader of the AG, you keep saying that as if it means something to you and typical of your style, let me repeat it because you seem to ignore it, I was never a leader in AG, I did not have any mod rights on the forums, I was not even in the HSM. All I have done is act as a line member opposing ganks, I have also engaged the gankers on the forums.

I said "leader" in quotes. They are there for a reason. Because AG is an unorganised pile of wannabe heroes who only really excel at whining the whole day about the mean gankers, and maybe whore on a CONCORD killmail sometime. There are no leaders, just some odd people who think they know more than the average AG blep.

Dracvlad wrote:
I still think you were arguing with yourself and I stood back and watched in fascination, especially as I have seen you make the opposite point in different threads, anyway it is not important, just amusing, but it means something to you, what exactly I have no idea, point scoring perhaps...

I specifically addressed a point you raised and made that very very clear from the first point about what I was talking. It obviously completely shattered your argument hence the dancing. I never said anything else when talking about the risk/reward metric and your failure to provide a quote shows just how confused you are, even when I made an effort to make sure a child would understand what I was talking about.

People react differently and only truly honest people will admit defeat during a discussion. Most will probably just shut up or ignore the argument altogether. It seams with you that is different, since you always HAVE to make it look like you have the upper hand hence all the dancing and obvious deflections. At least you make it very obvious what the winning condition is, lol.

Evil RatKid
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#994 - 2017-04-05 06:00:40 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
What about when we were in SAS alliance and a dude kept getting his carrier bumped by a mach? Everytime you or another SAS pilot warped solo you were immiedietly owned by the mach's support fleet. were you a better player than me then? I was so tempted to take over the fleet and get the other dudes to undock and align toward the bumped carrier and warp in together. You lost 3 or 4 ships doing that drac and you really want to tell me you're a better player?

You did'nt know a damn thing about eve in 2009, You have some respect I was your mentor and I took time out to help you understand the game and here you are trying to insult me?


That is a bit of a fantasy you are coming out with there Aaron. I don't rate you in any leadership position and you can no longer FC as you do not understand the current meta.


No fantasy, I'm more than happy to look in the archives and post the kill mails. You didn't understand the primary strike of the hostile fleet would kill all of you if you warped in 1 by 1 like lemmings. I had a healthy understanding of this and if it wasnt for you and your friends **** blocking I could have spread my wings.


My word where to start on this one, I lost two ships and a pod, maybe a third ship in that engagement, which was caused by someone ratting in B7 in a carrier who was not on comms and not watching intel, I was the first to go to his help and I was hoping to clear tackle hoping that he was aligned etc., but when I landed the fleet was there and a number of other people lost their ships doing that, I lost a cane and a pod. My second ship I lost was warped in with the main fleet, it was a scorp, I may have lost another ship, a drake or a bomber, but it was renters against a very well organised fleet. I was a line member, the lesson I learnt from that event was important and understood, but not what you are trying to say.

You are not a leader, you have too many personal issues, most notably is the inability to work with anyone else who had leadership ability or FC abilities, that is always going to block you. You also desire emotive conflict with people who worked with you and I am one that you desire such a conflict with, but I don't give it too you, you are totally and utterly irrelevant as far as I am concerned, I only reply to you because of my fond memories of my first time in Stain in 2010.

You seem to think that you taught me everything, I have to say from you I learnt what not to do, though you were an adequate skirmish FC for a small gang at that time and you had the guts to go for it at times.

Anyway you are derailing this thread with your need to get into an emotive conflict with me, perhaps you should think about that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#995 - 2017-04-05 06:02:19 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Violet Crumble wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
... and hope I get someone on the Miniluv and CODE blue list Lol ...

Seriously, you don't need any Miniluv, CODE. or other blue list to courier successfully in a Freighter.

...


I am not sure what you are trying to say, I use courier contracts, but if it made some sort of point then great

Hmm. I thought the first sentence of my post was a plain statement.

Not really sure how to reword it to make it more understandable though. Ah well. Such is life.

Edit:
Maybe this is a better summary of what I was saying:

Relying on hope is a path to disappointment. There are plenty of Freighter pilots out there that know what they are doing and who reduce risk to near 0 from an already very small level. There is no need for hope, just find a good hauler, because being on some blue list isn't necessary.


Yes and I use them as well as my very heavily tanked DST's.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Black Pedro
Mine.
#996 - 2017-04-05 06:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Hydrium Eternite wrote:
Star Wars Galaxies wanted to make the game more friendly and open to the populace. They sacrificed their core players for a mystical magical playerbase that didn't exist yet.

Know what happened?

It was panned, the game struggled and limped along until finally it was shut down.



Such analogies can help you consider options but should be taken with a grain of salt.
Each game environment will have its similarities but it will also be its own unique universe of considerations.

Taking to heart all such possible warnings and examples out there would paralyze any strategy session to consider options that occur outside the scope of the so called base leaving a very narrow base of expansion.

Sometimes in business you need to take a risk outside the scope of what most think is reasonable in order to create a new market space. Sometimes things fall into place, sometimes they don't.

There is no such thing as perfect business sense. If there was, there would never be golden opportunities to take advantage of what everyone else thought was impossible.

Playing only to your base will leave you permanently in a universe of lethargic growth and the guarantee eventual decline.

But CCP isn't limited to one product. They can and are developing new games to go after new types of gamers to grow their base. At this point so late in the life cycle of Eve, and all the legacy code and history associated with it, it would be a big gamble to risk your flagship product by morphing Eve Online into some other type of game.

Eve Online is still very profitable. Maybe that won't always be the case, but CCP can likely always make a small profit from Eve by reducing or reassigning the majority of developers to other projects and putting it in maintenance mode. People who hope that falling user counts will make CCP budge on the PvP sandbox thing are living in a pipe dream. Only if CCP completely fails and the game is sold does that even seem a possibility, and even then it would be better to keep milking the few thousand veterans until they die than invest resources in revamping a decades old game in a vain attempt to find mass appeal.

Eve is never going to fundamentally change at this point. It is a mature and successful product. There are better opportunities for growth for CCP, either leveraging the Eve Universe or not, if they want to make new games.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#997 - 2017-04-05 06:10:29 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I am not sure where you got the impression I was a leader of the AG, you keep saying that as if it means something to you and typical of your style, let me repeat it because you seem to ignore it, I was never a leader in AG, I did not have any mod rights on the forums, I was not even in the HSM. All I have done is act as a line member opposing ganks, I have also engaged the gankers on the forums.

I said "leader" in quotes. They are there for a reason. Because AG is an unorganised pile of wannabe heroes who only really excel at whining the whole day about the mean gankers, and maybe whore on a CONCORD killmail sometime. There are no leaders, just some odd people who think they know more than the average AG blep.

Dracvlad wrote:
I still think you were arguing with yourself and I stood back and watched in fascination, especially as I have seen you make the opposite point in different threads, anyway it is not important, just amusing, but it means something to you, what exactly I have no idea, point scoring perhaps...

I specifically addressed a point you raised and made that very very clear from the first point about what I was talking. It obviously completely shattered your argument hence the dancing. I never said anything else when talking about the risk/reward metric and your failure to provide a quote shows just how confused you are, even when I made an effort to make sure a child would understand what I was talking about.

People react differently and only truly honest people will admit defeat during a discussion. Most will probably just shut up or ignore the argument altogether. It seams with you that is different, since you always HAVE to make it look like you have the upper hand hence all the dancing and obvious deflections. At least you make it very obvious what the winning condition is, lol.


Wow you are so up yourself, you and your supplicants accuse me of that but you are a real example of it, AG is a resistance movement againts any form of ganking, it is made up of many people who are low SP and willing to help, it is not a 0.0 alliance. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Obviously for you it is.

There is that CONCORD whoring comment again, obviously that gets you, I find that rather funny.

That did not shatter anything, you just made a point which was against what you have said on other threads, I was enjoying noting that and decided to let you waffle on until you ran out of steam, which you did. Ahhh diddums into the child insults, how drole, you should get close to Aaron, you would make good bedfellows... Lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#998 - 2017-04-05 06:12:16 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:

Sometimes in business you need to take a risk outside the scope of what most think is reasonable in order to create a new market space. Sometimes things fall into place, sometimes they don't.

There is no such thing as perfect business sense. If there was, there would never be golden opportunities to take advantage of what everyone else thought was impossible.

Playing only to your base will leave you permanently in a universe of lethargic growth and the guarantee eventual decline.

Yes, but EVE is the only successful business CCP has, and it generates piles of money for over 13 years which is something almost completely unheard of in the game industry. It worked so far and they recently released numbers and showed that they had the highest revenue from the game since launch in 2016.

To completely change the core concept of that game in this situation would be completely and utterly stupid. If you want to address a different player segment you don't cannibalise your flag ship which is by the way the ONLY successful and money generating product they have and make something else out of it which would destroy the currently paying player base and replace it with some imagined marked you don't actually know exists.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#999 - 2017-04-05 06:19:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Wow you are so up yourself, you and your supplicants accuse me of that but you are a real example of it, AG is a resistance movement againts any form of ganking, it is made up of many people who are low SP and willing to help, it is not a 0.0 alliance. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Obviously for you it is.

There is that CONCORD whoring comment again, obviously that gets you, I find that rather funny.

Lol, "resistance movement". Low skill, not low SP

Dracvlad wrote:

That did not shatter anything, you just made a point which was against what you have said on other threads, I was enjoying noting that and decided to let you waffle on until you ran out of steam, which you did. Ahhh diddums into the child insults, how drole, you should get close to Aaron, you would make good bedfellows... Lol

And the dance continues. Did not expect anything else. Bye Drac

Evil RatKid
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1000 - 2017-04-05 06:21:52 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Wow you are so up yourself, you and your supplicants accuse me of that but you are a real example of it, AG is a resistance movement againts any form of ganking, it is made up of many people who are low SP and willing to help, it is not a 0.0 alliance. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Obviously for you it is.

There is that CONCORD whoring comment again, obviously that gets you, I find that rather funny.

Lol, "resistance movement". Low skill, not low SP


They don't need bumping because otherwise it would be too hard. Shocked

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp