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Dev blog: Introducing Upwell Refineries

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Gisele Serebriakova
Norman's Meat Market
#61 - 2017-03-22 16:39:02 UTC
ermahgerd

ERMAHGERD!

Seems nice. No more auto-money for the lazies with supercaps.

Is there a delay between release of the facilities/BPO's and turning off POS goo mining/reactions to give people time to set up the new facilities? Otherwise t2 prices should blow up for a month or three with near zero production and refinery costs at peak.
SIEGE RED
The Darwin Foundation
#62 - 2017-03-22 16:39:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Glad to be able to get this ball rolling and start bringing the community into the early process of developing these structures. We're releasing these blogs now so that we can focus Fanfest on listening to you folks. We also look forward to hearing from you all in this thread.


I'm wondering about something, and this is a serious question ...

those "chunks" of rock, will I be able to bump them so they crash into other people, structures and planets?





(Yes, I remember splash damage)
Raddan Eldre'Thalas
Naval Defence Force
Naval Defence Alliance
#63 - 2017-03-22 16:41:10 UTC
Quote:
However, for this first release we are not currently planning on expanding moon mining to areas of space where it is not available today (highsec and wormholes). Although this gameplay has the potential to be interesting and fun in any area of space we want to be careful not to dilute the regional value of tech two resource collection too much.


Just throw us wormhole dwellers a bone already and give us moon mining! As my friend says
Quote:
literally no lore reason not to, just nullbears bitching that they want exclusive rights to it


If you so worried about diluting the value of T2 resources then just
Quote:
...determining how much or little we may need to adjust distribution of moon minerals
.
Liira Savlin
Ophanim Overwatch
#64 - 2017-03-22 16:42:06 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
Please for the love of god dont keep the current distribution of moon goo - there are areas of space that are so lacking and the weird distribution of certain elements is daft.

I'd suggest starting from scratch:

Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.

Not saying massive screw up the ballancing but say if a belt gives you 1,000,000 units of goo once refined you get:

Atmospheric Gases x 200,000
Evaporate Deposits x 200,000
Hydrocarbons x 200,000
Silicates x 200,000
Cobalt x 25,000
Scandium x 25,000
Titanium x 25,000
Tungsten x 25,000
Cadmium x 15,000
Vandium x 15,000
Platinum x 15,000
Chromium x 15,000
Caesium x 7,500
Technetium x 7,500
Hafnium x 7,500
Mercury x 7,500
Promethium x 2,500
Dysprosium x 2,500
Neodymium x 2,500
Thulium x 2,500

you can then play with individual moons so a current Dyspro moon could give 25,000 per belt.

its a rough idea I grant you but please dont leave goo like it is now

This is a really good compromise idea
ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
#65 - 2017-03-22 16:43:09 UTC
Bear Templar wrote:
ArmyOfMe wrote:

...
Also, even tho making this an active thing, it will make life in low sec even harder, as most large alliances in low sec doesnt have industrialists in their ranks.
...


Isn't this a good thing though? I'm not a low-sec industrialist myself but i get a feeling from the forums that low-sec (in general) could do with a boost.

I doubt this in any way will work as a low sec boost.
Sadly low sec is the most overlooked part of eve and hasnt had anything happen to it since faction warfare was introduced in 2008 (other then the sentry gun changes which I to this day still have no clue why they implemented)

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Liira Savlin
Ophanim Overwatch
#66 - 2017-03-22 16:44:26 UTC
SIEGE RED wrote:
Liira Savlin wrote:
So here are some thoughts i have from what i've read so far:

  • Active gameplay is all well and good, but i do think these should be released with drilling platforms. If you assume drilling platforms provide the ability to passively extract resources, you could set the gameplay for these to work in tandem with drilling structures, but they would have less yield than actively mining them. Snuff and a few others here have raised some very important points about how this hurts lowsec groups that rely on passive moon goo income.

    • Something to consider yes. None of that however offsets required organisational adaptation - things change in EVE, it's the only constant.


    Liira Savlin wrote:

  • If you're going to force active gameplay, you're going to HAVE to open up w-space and hisec to moon mining with these structures if you don't want to see the t2 economy to violently crash and burn. I'd bet my left toe that MOST of the people (if not upwards of 90%) rely on moon mining to be passive, and would prefer to keep it that way to suppliment their most decidedly non-pve activities. Many of these people, especially non-fw lowsec groups, would sooner go to null or w-space than be forced to mine or do PVE activities to suppliment their income. The idea of any of them running mining operations in lowsec, let alone the meat grinder of FW space, is one of the grossest misunderstandings of player behavior since Incarna. It will NOT end well for anyone involved.

    • Why? Things crashing and burning is not only good for gameplay, it's good for underlying economics - and there's never been any situation where such a thing had any tangible impact on player abilities. I remember cap recharger II's at 40m a pop with towers burning. And the show was still on the road. If anything, **** was more alive. If one can say such a strange thing about biological waste.
    Good counterpoints to my doomsaying, but you can't deny that goo suppy is going to be hit massively. There was a good post about balancing distribution of goo more widely that could be a good compromise to this, since it would also help out smaller groups.

    Liira Savlin wrote:

  • If this is going to come to pass as-advertised, then let me make a little suggestion: Add d-scan immunity to the porpoise and the skiff. Giving lowsec and nullsec mining operations some decent counterplay is going to be essential if you're putting the burden of AN ENTIRE SECTION OF THE ECONOMY into active gameplay with a fat load of risk involved, where it was passive before. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of player behavior in regards to how the t2 economy works with moon goo.

    • Our BPO's welcome that suggestion, but I'd kinda like to see the Noctis pick up a little love here. Small, specialised, room for younger characters, less n+1 counter paths, more room for small scale pew pew, etc.

    Also, it's not "an entire section of the economy". It's just human behaviour. It can still be passive, just pay/seduce/let/make/force others to do it for you, if needs be. Economics of scale following group behaviour still applies. And specialisation remains king.

    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #67 - 2017-03-22 16:44:36 UTC
    Rainus Max wrote:

    Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.


    Considering that the new system requires active harvest, I'm guessing a LOT of R64 moons, especially in lowsec, are about to come up for grabs, considering that they're mostly held by On-Rails-Arcade-Shooter-phile iceberg alliances currently. Perhaps you and yours can snag one?

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Maetel Lithium
    Undead Dragons
    #68 - 2017-03-22 16:44:40 UTC
    This process of creating a mineable field as detailed in this devblog is down-right exciting. I have always wanted more "active mining" and this actually achieves STRATEGIC game play, while keeping a well accepted tactical game play style.
    Nerriana
    Avanto
    Hole Control
    #69 - 2017-03-22 16:44:56 UTC
    Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
    This clearly opens up for completely new gameplay. And EVE just got a tad bit more complex (is that even possible!?)

    One thought; Ore-fields will "explode" in vicinity of a Refinery citdadel, so that mining fleets can be "covered" by the Refinery weapons. So they will spawn completely within the weapon envelops of the Refineries? Or will it be possible to sneak in ninja-mining ships in areas of the ore-fields that are NOT covered by the weapons? Would it be possible to place other citadels in such a way that you get dual/multiple coverage of the ore-fields?


    An interesting gameplay choice would be that since only a refinery citadel can cover the ore-field, the refinery citadel weaponry would require an active gunner and not do anything on automatic. This would make ninja-mining possible (if there's nobody at the controls or the controller is AFK, the ninja-miners can mine without interference from the citadel) and still allow for active defense of friendly miners.
    Tetsel
    House Amamake
    #70 - 2017-03-22 16:47:12 UTC
    CCPls:
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?

    Thx

    Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

    Another Bittervet Please Ignore
    Drammie Askold
    Hideaway Hunters
    The Hideaway.
    #71 - 2017-03-22 16:47:47 UTC
    Making moon mining active and a group activity is an excellent idea. I think that CCP has hit the bullseye with these structures. Kudos to team Five O Big smile

    As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."
    Anna Lightyear
    Red Storm Rising
    #72 - 2017-03-22 16:50:34 UTC
    With this move, what's the plan for the Siphons?
    marly cortez
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #73 - 2017-03-22 16:51:00 UTC
    There are so many grey areas and holes in this 'String' of updates it's hard to see were CCP are going with it all..

    They talk about co-operation in Corps and Alliances while selectively forgetting that this type of behavior has never been something Eve players have ever engaged in willingly, even when forced to do so by CCP mechanics it has never ended in a progressive increase in this type of activity.

    Again we see only a partial set of ideas released, some which have been pointed out in this thread already are areas that will do no good for the participants, small alliances and corporations will not be able to participate in this as they will not have the people available to put in the time required and as such will be shut out. Similar with Alpha's and CCP's, 'So far and no further' policy they to are shut out of this

    Overall while I am sure CCP Devs have put a lot of time into this it looks over complicated even from the brief outline placed in the Blog, Hours or even weeks to realize any meaningful output and all indication to date are that some minerals will only be available through this means, again CCP arm twisting to participate which to date has never ended well for the players or the game.

    While I agree that PoS structure mechanics badly needed an overhaul, all of this was for nothing after CCP homogenized the Eve universe taking out of the equation some of the largest content generators there have ever been in the game replacing them with bland featureless updates like the latest Sov iteration that have not brought back those heady days when players actually had some reason to fight for resources, every indication is that this new set up will cause some conflict, but not over resources but only the structures installed to gather them and we have already had a taste of that system.

    Question I ask is how many of these structures can we as players eat at one time without getting thoroughly sick of the taste while even the one's we have are unfinished works in progress so full of bugs and lacking full utility as they are currently, again CCP Dev's box ticking at it's worst as predicted, nothing is getting finished before a new round of updates comes along driven by some schedule as yet unpublished by CCP.

    Years past all the players ever really wanted from the Dev's was to fix the game, repair what was broken and make it work as advertised, instead they got even more 'New' stuff, broken from the outset leaving the players chasing from one update to the next but always feeling let down once again, This proposal looks to be yet another one of those.

    Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #74 - 2017-03-22 16:52:15 UTC
    Tetsel wrote:
    CCPls:
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?
    What about Siphons ?

    Thx


    Here's a relevant quote from Fozzie:

    CCP Fozzie [23:52]
    more people have asked me about siphons in the last hour than have used siphons in the past week :slightly_smiling_face:

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Hy Wanto Destroyer
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #75 - 2017-03-22 16:52:32 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Rainus Max wrote:

    Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.


    Considering that the new system requires active harvest, I'm guessing a LOT of R64 moons, especially in lowsec, are about to come up for grabs, considering that they're mostly held by On-Rails-Arcade-Shooter-phile iceberg alliances currently. Perhaps you and yours can snag one?



    NC is taking all of em in our area at least , so prolly not lol
    DarkCookie23
    Slays Industrial Core
    Mallugiers Deep Space Vigilantes
    #76 - 2017-03-22 16:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkCookie23
    Hy Wanto Destroyer wrote:
    Do you understand the impact this will have on lowsec?

    Most of the larger lowsec alliance rely on passive moon income and have less isk making opportunities on an alliance level than nullsec allainces which was outlined on some reddit posts made during the leaks and an article on crossing zebra,

    No one in lowsec is gonna mine so rip lowsec????


    as a low sec miner i look forward to these changes and hope my high sec mining brothers will join me in the ninja mining fun of this new system.

    now if only there was a move active way of doing PI Blink

    Thank you CCP,
    I hope to hear more as this develops
    Hy Wanto Destroyer
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #77 - 2017-03-22 16:58:50 UTC
    DarkCookie23 wrote:
    [

    as a low sec miner s


    Stop trollin pls
    Hy Wanto Destroyer
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #78 - 2017-03-22 17:00:16 UTC
    Also mr retardo goon ofc you are pushing for this because it prolly benefits goons massively and alot of nullsec allainces , youre able to tax moons and tax renters so all the nullsec miners are jumping with joy.
    Rainus Max
    Fusion Enterprises Ltd
    Pandemic Horde
    #79 - 2017-03-22 17:00:45 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Rainus Max wrote:

    Give each moon a bit of everything but so that everyone has the ability to get the high end goo that currently is so heavily controlled by the big alliances.


    Considering that the new system requires active harvest, I'm guessing a LOT of R64 moons, especially in lowsec, are about to come up for grabs, considering that they're mostly held by On-Rails-Arcade-Shooter-phile iceberg alliances currently. Perhaps you and yours can snag one?


    Given it also requires me to either ninja mine from someone else's belt or to drop a refinery of my own i doubt I'll get much or ever get on top of Dyspro moon any time soon.
    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #80 - 2017-03-22 17:08:28 UTC
    Once these are released, is the need for the POS gone?
    Will they get removed when refineries are released? Will there be some sort of grace period? What about POS stuff on the market, or in hangars?

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