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This sounds really cool - though I'm not sure about invulnerable station gunners being able to shoot ninja miners though

Couple of questions which have probably already been asked.

1) does the moon composition stay the same? So if i'm mining platinum from a moon after the change there will still be platinum there? Are there going to be new minerals? Or is everything being reshuffled?

2) What is the planned end for old Control towers/ Arrays. Recycling? Isk compemsation? How are you handling faction upgraded pos equipment?

Thanks

So, I see some good and some bad.

Physically mining the goo is fine I suppose. The market will figure that out and moon holders will charge for the privilege. It might generate a little content... as fun as dying mining or killing miners can be I guess. I give a plus to the fact that it opens up rarer moon mats to more junior members and that their efforts (mine really.. lol) might allow them to pursue industrial activities typically reserved for established moon hogs or senior leadership... cuz u know senior leadership aint gonna be out there grinding rocks, regardless of type.

What I don't like is reactions moving into the cits... more specifically, reactions becoming part of the standard industry UI.

As is, running reactions is one of the very few ways, at least that I've found, that a single toon can scale up operations to the limits of their time and isk available. That is to say, if I want to babysit 30 large faction towers, I'm free to do so.

Ofc, I need to be in a secure ls/ns alliance and it's a tens of billion of isk investment with a lot of risk and a fair upside.

Point being, reacting is an activity you can do with your main and need not be farmed out to a small army of alts like large scale PI or multi-toon t2 or t3 production with indy slot and/or planetary caps.

I'm the first in line to say that the POS reaction UI is dated and very buggy, but can't escape the reality that moving reactions into standard industry just adds another layer to arguably the most tedious production process (T2) and effectively removes running reactions as a main character vocation.

If you dislike the guy running a dozen towers soaked in isk, you'll really dislike the guy running 9 accounts with two dedicated trade alts grinding reactions for fractional margins that add up to a lot. Please don't turn reacting into station trading.

So, what would make sense then.

1) Keep reactions tethered to moon structures in such a way that a limited (one to three, depending on structure size, fit, and rigs) number that can be run per reaction cit

2) No limit on number of cits or reactions a single character can run.

3) Possibly limit the types of reactions (or provide significant financial penalties) that can be performed in low-sec.

Otherwise, here's what I forsee happening.

1) I dump all my cyno alts and retrain them in the refining skill cuz I no longer need to export from deep nul.
2) I park all my new reacting alts in a ls system one jump from a hs gate, 5 jumps to Jita
3) Trade alt in Jita, up a penny, up a penny, up a penny on raw moon mats (puking as I type this)
4) Undock JF, jump to cyno in ls, offload
5) log in toon after toon after toon and start running reaction bpo's
6) Fill up w finished reactions, undock and align to hs gate, always ready to redock so never die
7) Fly to Jita, place sell orders, down a penny, down a penny, down a penny (puking again)

Today there is huge volatility and opportunity in the reaction biz. Yes, this owes in part to the availability of moon goo, but it's also owing to the limited number of "slots=pos" to react in, the investment required, and the gluts and scarcity caused by everyone jumping on what's hot atm.

It's quite possible to win or lose big buying from sell orders and selling to buy. Remove that volatility and all the benefits accrue to the truly massive 6 account player who spends all day station spinning.

My point, alliance like goons can live without it, this patch is great for the big super bloc alliances, kills small/med alliances.

The two big questions with these is what will moon distribution look like and will they generate conflict. The first is yet to be determined, but lets talk about conflict.

Right now sov is boring. A lack of -meaningful- objectives to go after on a daily/weekly basis is the cause. The refineries mining moons have the potential to give us that daily/weekly content and provide players a method of true economic warfare.

The key here is what will happen on that first reinforcement timer?

If the answer is "The extraction job is Paused," then glorious content awaits us. Players will form fleets and set out to hostile space to hurt their opponents economically by reinforcing structures and pausing their paydays. This dynamic will lead to daily conflict.

If the answer is "Not much until the 2nd timer," then little content will be created:

Players won't want to form and grind through a reinforcement timer deep in hostile space only to come back on the 2nd timer to find a gigantic super fleet sitting on it. They will only do this if they intend to destroy the structure and control the moon for themselves - which is unlikely if they are venturing far away from home or deep into hostile territory. Conflict in this scenario will only happen every so often/rarely - about as often as they do today when moons change hands. Yes, players will form mining hunting parties, but we can already do this today and it's clear that it's not enough to keep things churning in sov.

That certainly fits much better with what was actually going on.

Are you picturing it:

A lone prospect flies thru a system and noticed a moon goo belt with no one else in local. He lights a covert cyno, and 20-30 more prospects are bridged into the system.

After filling up their 10km3 holds, they all make it back home, dump off the goo, and look for another empty belt to bridge into.

Question: Will this mean an end to regionalized moon-goo sourcing?

Right now, T2 production in nulsec is virtually impossible, as it requires a wide assortment of moon products, from all over the universe. The materials are only reasonably obtained at a major trade hub, like Jita, which also means that manufacturing T2 in hisec rather nulsec is more convenient than importing moon products.

The Great Moon Goo Nerf of '17

Hear ye, hear ye, be it known that the Nerf Bat of Destruction has fallen upon the solo moon miners of New Eden.

Behold, the calculus of these wretched space losers:

Net Outcome of Moon Operations:

= Same at max. Potentially much lower. (Zero Gain.)

Net Inputs for Moon Mining:

1. Fuel costs for drilling = same

2. The activity of mining the asteroids = ++++++NERF++++++



Total nerf. The whole mining investment of time is 100% extra effort for no extra reward. watanerf.

In the TESTICLES.

That is what you get. I told ya. I said, "That is what ya get, for mining them moons."

Well, this means that the cost of moon goo, and all the things made from it (Tech 2), will go up, and bigly.

Oh my, the inflation in new eden!

Still, we can't throw out the good in search of the perfect.

Just the other day I was talking to my bro and I said "Bro", I said, "I think what we need here in nul sec is more mining."

"More mining?" he asked me.

"Yes" I said, all solemn and serious. "what with the ice mining and the ore mining, a fella can't get enough mining done so as not to get frightfully bored with the whole enterprise."

"I see." said my bro. But I could sort of tell that he didn't.

A mix of gradients as to what defines 'good' space enriches the game. I would support this change. (As a corollary further sharpening the distinction by increasing ratting and ore variant payouts in the large truesec ares if this idea went through)




As good a story as any. I would just add the extra irony of placing enriched variety R8 moons into high sec since the Empires couldn't be bothered to tower refinery those moons.