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Dev Blog: PLEX Rework - Follow Up

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mkint
#61 - 2017-03-22 14:40:46 UTC
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Idea for the aurum tokens:
Make them a useless vanity item and give the people who still have them the equivalent in new plex items.
Call it a legacy item from EVE days gone by and let them brag about them without any redemption value?

Didn't you get the memo? CCP's only allowed to be quirky and fun around Christmas, and even then only in an artificial manufactured kind of way.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Zinn Tesla Hadron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2017-03-22 15:47:53 UTC
No word on the obtrusive and unnecessary PLEX Vault in the inventory window? Why, other than having a constant advertisement up in a window I have open far more often than the character sheet, is this PLEX Vault placed there? Why can't this remain part of the character sheet?

Funny how "Transfer PLEX to another character", ostensibly the reason for this vault to begin with, is not actually one of the option buttons available in the PLEX Vault. Only buttons that, in one way or another, put money in CCP's pocket or convert to another currency (ISK).

Roll
Kevin Dogguide
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2017-03-22 17:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kevin Dogguide
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Uh....

You're _badly_ mistaken.

All plex will be broken up into 500.

If you want to get 30 days of game time, you use 500 plex (after they're broken up) to get 30 days of game time.

There's absolutely no difference there. No need to buy new plex. I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Considering that fees are entirely percentile, there's no difference there either.


Bantara wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Kevin Dogguide wrote:
I think dev's should give people, who have 30-day PLEX already purchased or will have it when the changes are in place, to choose if they want to have their PLEX broken up or not.

Uh....
You're _badly_ mistaken.
All plex will be broken up into 500.
If you want to get 30 days of game time, you use 500 plex (after they're broken up) to get 30 days of game time.
There's absolutely no difference there. No need to buy new plex. I have no idea where you got that idea from.


Cade Windstalker wrote:
The only way this actually destroys your gameplay is if the vast majority of the playerbase suddenly starts reading available information, which seems unlikely.


Live example in the thread.


I don't think you (both of you) understand what I'm saying.

I'll have to work better at explaining what I mean.
Sister Stetille
Doomheim
#64 - 2017-03-22 19:36:17 UTC
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


It's the next step in going FTP. Eventually the only way to gain SP will be from injectors that can only be obtained from NEX, and 2.4m isk for 4k sp is easier for new players than 1.2b for 2m SP.
Zinn Tesla Hadron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2017-03-22 20:52:00 UTC
Sister Stetille wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


It's the next step in going FTP. Eventually the only way to gain SP will be from injectors that can only be obtained from NEX, and 2.4m isk for 4k sp is easier for new players than 1.2b for 2m SP.



Maybe, prior to such a change, we can get CCP to put another monument in Jita to blow up when the playerbase rages. This^^ WILL be the end of Eve.
Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#66 - 2017-03-23 02:18:31 UTC
Zinn Tesla Hadron wrote:
Sister Stetille wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


It's the next step in going FTP. Eventually the only way to gain SP will be from injectors that can only be obtained from NEX, and 2.4m isk for 4k sp is easier for new players than 1.2b for 2m SP.



Maybe, prior to such a change, we can get CCP to put another monument in Jita to blow up when the playerbase rages. This^^ WILL be the end of Eve.


Yeah... as someone who has never used an injector (sure, my 3 main toons were high enough SP when the system was introduced that they couldn't have participated without a lot of waste)... if passive training for our sub/PLEX was eliminated and the only way to skill was by spending ISK to skill... not sure I'd be continuing to sub/PLEX 3 accounts for much longer.
Sister Stetille
Doomheim
#67 - 2017-03-23 03:31:09 UTC
Sylvia Kildare wrote:
Zinn Tesla Hadron wrote:
Sister Stetille wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


It's the next step in going FTP. Eventually the only way to gain SP will be from injectors that can only be obtained from NEX, and 2.4m isk for 4k sp is easier for new players than 1.2b for 2m SP.



Maybe, prior to such a change, we can get CCP to put another monument in Jita to blow up when the playerbase rages. This^^ WILL be the end of Eve.


Yeah... as someone who has never used an injector (sure, my 3 main toons were high enough SP when the system was introduced that they couldn't have participated without a lot of waste)... if passive training for our sub/PLEX was eliminated and the only way to skill was by spending ISK to skill... not sure I'd be continuing to sub/PLEX 3 accounts for much longer.


But you would not be the target audience. Imagine all of those people who have quit Eve because they couldn't "catch up". Or all of the people who still want access to new skills. The logic being, if you already pay a sub every month for a set amount of SP, why not just make the trade upfront instead of extending it out.

They have already made steps this direction, not only with the injectors (which are widely accepted), but also with Alpha clone states (again widely accepted), and the typical FTP dual currency model (also widely accepted). Only a few more changes and they would be ready to flip the switch.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#68 - 2017-03-23 04:35:59 UTC
Sister Stetille wrote:


But you would not be the target audience. Imagine all of those people who have quit Eve because they couldn't "catch up". Or all of the people who still want access to new skills. The logic being, if you already pay a sub every month for a set amount of SP, why not just make the trade upfront instead of extending it out.


I will answer this question of why,
The answer is this: You do not kill things for Skill/Experience pts, so your character does not level up.
There is no leveling up, just studying as in Real Life.
As in Real Life you never stop learning, so even logged out if the que is full/set you never quit skilling up.

There is no logic in getting rid of this type of SP gain as there is no other way to gain SP. To go full ****** on just buying SP and giving the game free reign to Wallet Warriors only will definitely kill EvE. Might as well just change the name to Vega Conflict @ that point and be done with it because the only people playing soon after (1-3 yrs tops) will be PvP and those who pay only for their stuff with RL cash, cash for SP, cash for PLEX (at first till the farmers finally leave) to buy ships and gear.

Sister Stetille wrote:
They have already made steps this direction, not only with the injectors (which are widely accepted), but also with Alpha clone states (again widely accepted), and the typical FTP dual currency model (also widely accepted). Only a few more changes and they would be ready to flip the switch.


Hmm flip the switch...........I am sure many like me will leave the game at that point, either just straight quit logging in, RMT their stuff and then quit logging in, or dump everything on the markets destroying them for at least a month then quit..........any which way is death sentence for EvE, what people like you are advocating is the fact EvE is still on life support and you have not realized that yet.

Veterans are waiting for something special and you are trying to say its all right to push us out the door. Wake up, its the vets keeping this game alive one way or another not the FOTM wallet warriors that cant handle this game and keep trying to change it into Star Trek, Battlstar galactica, Star Wars, WoW.........and that is a mini short list of the issues the Dev's are doing to this game.
ashton wiler
Redd Moon Industries
#69 - 2017-03-23 07:34:31 UTC
Still not good enough. People paid real money for something you said you would honor. The fact you considered theft of your players is shameful and had you gone through with it would have been a crime and illegal. Now your saying your going to abolish aurum tokens its still THEFT! You created aurum now you get to deal with any problems its caused, not your players. Delaying the conversion is also not tolerable, your essentially freezing someone's bank account. Money they spent to support the further development of eve and supported your paycheck and livelihood. This is fraud. You don't get to take the easy way out here. Your attempting to steal people's money. Its your game and you can do whatever you want but the stain on your reputation not to mention the legal position your putting the company in is astonishing to steal a few bucks from your customers. You are talking about wiping out thousands maybe tens of thousands of dollars worth of money. In what world is that acceptable? Not this one plenty of laws cover this sort of fraud. For your sake I hope you reconsider your stance on aurum. I dont always agree with the things ccp does with eve but this is the first time ive been ashamed of the company enough not to want to spend my hard earned money supporting it.

I've read your newest dev blog just wow unacceptable, shameful I still am just disappointed. Welcome to the ****** developers list. This is a new low. Unsubbed...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#70 - 2017-03-23 11:22:56 UTC
ashton wiler wrote:
Still not good enough. People paid real money for something you said you would honor. The fact you considered theft of your players is shameful and had you gone through with it would have been a crime and illegal. Now your saying your going to abolish aurum tokens its still THEFT! You created aurum now you get to deal with any problems its caused, not your players. Delaying the conversion is also not tolerable, your essentially freezing someone's bank account. Money they spent to support the further development of eve and supported your paycheck and livelihood. This is fraud. You don't get to take the easy way out here. Your attempting to steal people's money. Its your game and you can do whatever you want but the stain on your reputation not to mention the legal position your putting the company in is astonishing to steal a few bucks from your customers. You are talking about wiping out thousands maybe tens of thousands of dollars worth of money. In what world is that acceptable? Not this one plenty of laws cover this sort of fraud. For your sake I hope you reconsider your stance on aurum. I dont always agree with the things ccp does with eve but this is the first time ive been ashamed of the company enough not to want to spend my hard earned money supporting it.

I've read your newest dev blog just wow unacceptable, shameful I still am just disappointed. Welcome to the ****** developers list. This is a new low. Unsubbed...

Problem CCP is facing (I'm not defending their actions, just putting forth a different scenario) they gave everyone 300 AUR as a xmas gift, converting all that to NewPlex at the time of the changes would have a massive effect on the Plex market.
Leaving the conversion of amounts less than 1,000 is not ideal but the best option over just losing it.

I have 11 characters received the Xmas gift, I'm ok waiting a while to get free newplex from CCP.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Krieg Austern
#71 - 2017-03-23 12:15:47 UTC
As far as user interface goes, the PLEX Vault should be made part of the wallet, seeing as it's directly tied into cash transactions, whether they be RL PLEX purchases on the site, or buying items from the NES.

If you want to carry/sell/something PLEX, you can withdraw any quantity you need to your item hangar then deal with it appropriately, or move it back into PLEX Vault.

Seeing the PLEX Vault in every inventory window is highly redundant imho.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#72 - 2017-03-23 12:36:44 UTC
Zinn Tesla Hadron wrote:
Sister Stetille wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
Whats the point of granularity if you have to inject 500 instead of 1?


It's the next step in going FTP. Eventually the only way to gain SP will be from injectors that can only be obtained from NEX, and 2.4m isk for 4k sp is easier for new players than 1.2b for 2m SP.



Maybe, prior to such a change, we can get CCP to put another monument in Jita to blow up when the playerbase rages. This^^ WILL be the end of Eve.


I would love it for fleets that I join that are not kitchen sink, but where CCP has invented that 1 skill somewhere that I need to fly the fit that I could fly 3 years ago. (Tiercide stuff for example, mostly grid / cpu errors on fits).

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#73 - 2017-03-24 02:25:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Krieg Austern wrote:
As far as user interface goes, the PLEX Vault should be made part of the wallet, seeing as it's directly tied into cash transactions, whether they be RL PLEX purchases on the site, or buying items from the NES.

If you want to carry/sell/something PLEX, you can withdraw any quantity you need to your item hangar then deal with it appropriately, or move it back into PLEX Vault.

Seeing the PLEX Vault in every inventory window is highly redundant imho.

Not redundant at all, it is a blatant ploy to get people to buy more plex.

For some reason the marketing team are under the illusion that if they push BUY PLEX on the player base at every opportunity - They will.


Now to really push the message home the same tactic is to be present for the whole time you are logged in and in a station or Citadel.

You are right, the vault should be connected to a players wallet or more appropriately in the mainly unused "Pilot License" section of the character sheet.
The only problem with having the vault in an appropriate place is that it isn't in a players face all day and marketing is afraid they won't get that extra person to BUY PLEX if it isn't Highly visible (and totally annoying) by putting it somewhere you can't ignore it.


The BEST thing about Eve was knowing no-one was trying to force you to spend more than you could afford or wanted to spend. The current proposed placement of the VAULT changes that to turn CCP into just another money grubbing game publisher.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2017-03-25 00:41:50 UTC
Few thoughts.

First, still hate theo PLEX Vault, you should never be able to safely move items between systems like this. Redeem it where you need it, or learn to take the risks. (And I say this as someone who used to use an alt for moving PLEX's around to play the market. Risk/Reward)

Second, the delay on the >1000 Aurum Conversion. Love it. I don't mind delays. That said, if you would let us transfer our Aurum it would make things so much easier. I could have enough on one account for PLEX, or items from the NEX store.

Third. Aurum Tokens. Why do you tell us to convert them to the currency? Are you saying anyone not paying attention, or like me unable to log in (I'm away from highspeed net, with a very low data cap atm, unable to download the client :( ) will be SOL when the conversion happens? That seems silly, and wrong. You should convert them too just as if they were in the system already.

Last. Aurum Tokens. Please give those of us who still have them some memento from them. Like a single vanity Aurum Token per character/account with the tokens. These haven't been handed out for ages, they are defacto collectors items for many people. I think an ingame reminder of them is earned.
Karmen Baric
Doomheim
#75 - 2017-03-26 06:57:47 UTC
Plex Vault sounds like a good idea and agree that the PLEX Vault should be made part of the wallet.

Also great move by spreading AUR to Plex exchange 3 months for limits under 1000AUR. Everyone wins with this solution, no one loses out.

As for Aurum Tokens im good with people needing to use them before this change to get thier worth for what the item is.
Richard TheLordOfDance
Operation Fishbowl Inc.
#76 - 2017-03-27 06:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard TheLordOfDance
Seeing as the problems with the PLEX Vault was not addressed in the blog I will just quote what I wrote the last time on how you could fix peoples main concerns with it (mine included).

Quote:
I like all the changes, and understand from a gamedesign point of view why this is happening, except how the PLEX vault would work. So I would like to make some suggestions on how to improve it and fix the main problem.

The only real problem with the Vault is that it makes PLEXes a virtual item accessible from anywhere, which goes against the whole philosophy of EVE.

To change this I would make the Vault a physical place and PLEXes a physical item. You would still be able to exchange them for game time or use them to shop in the New Eden Store from anywhere in the universe but you would only be able to sell them where they are being stored. If you would like them somewhere else, for selling or any other reason, you would still have to physically move them to that location.

Regarding where PLEXes bought from CCP would appear I would make players choose a main Vault the first time they buy PLEX where it will spawn in from then on, you should be able to change this location though to match the current system of redeeming. Moving this location should not move the PLEXes being kept there though only where new ones would appear when buying from CCP. (you could also make it toggleable option so you can choose where they appear for every time you buy them)

Since new players not understanding that they can loose PLEXes when they go out flying with them is an issue trying to be addressed, put up some big red letters telling them the risks when choosing your primary vault and when you try to take them out of the Vault. (of course you should be able to choose if the warning should appear every time)


Also, there's a spelling error in the first sentence of the blog "Last week we announced plans to update PLEX, which you can ready about here.", just for any devs reading this that likes fixing such things.
Quince Ozuwara
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2017-03-27 16:27:04 UTC
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:
Seeing as the problems with the PLEX Vault was not addressed in the blog I will just quote what I wrote the last time on how you could fix peoples main concerns with it (mine included).

Not liking, or not agreeing with, a new feature isn't something the Devs are going to address; the Q& A's posted to date make that abundantly clear.

PLEX Vault, and the removal of physical game time and real money theft from the game is welcome. Steal/ gank/ scam all of the in-game items to your hearts content, but it's past time that CCP remove PLEX tanking from the game for good.
Krynn Fennir
Systems High Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#78 - 2017-03-28 11:32:21 UTC
Move the Plex Vault to the bottom of the Inventory Index. For those of us that play EVE, it will be used far less than Ship Hangar, Item, etc.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2017-03-29 04:32:50 UTC
Kind of on topic, in a roundabout way.

You know how I first heard of EvE online? There was this Cracked.com article written many years ago (quality of content has slipped lately). Anyway, the article was "10 biggest d**k moves ever pulled off in videogames". EvE online had three entries in that one article. One of those entries was a quick story about a guy who bought a bunch of plex, and well, let's just say the loot fairy said "no".

My first impression of EvE was that story. A game where something real and substantial - game time - could be purchased, and if you f*ed up, it was gone forever. No refunds, no restores, no save points, nadda. And in a world where there's a deluge of video games that fill virtually every other category, things like that made EvE stand out.

It's obvious that the powers that be have now decided that the vault is going to be a thing. I'm just popping in to say, that it's a bummer. I' not going to rage or pretend I have excessively strong emotions on this one. But yes, I feel it's a bit of a lame move.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#80 - 2017-04-01 00:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
Sister Stetille wrote:
Sylvia Kildare wrote:
Yeah... as someone who has never used an injector (sure, my 3 main toons were high enough SP when the system was introduced that they couldn't have participated without a lot of waste)... if passive training for our sub/PLEX was eliminated and the only way to skill was by spending ISK to skill... not sure I'd be continuing to sub/PLEX 3 accounts for much longer.


But you would not be the target audience. Imagine all of those people who have quit Eve because they couldn't "catch up". Or all of the people who still want access to new skills. The logic being, if you already pay a sub every month for a set amount of SP, why not just make the trade upfront instead of extending it out.

They have already made steps this direction, not only with the injectors (which are widely accepted), but also with Alpha clone states (again widely accepted), and the typical FTP dual currency model (also widely accepted). Only a few more changes and they would be ready to flip the switch.


I'm sure I'm not the only subber who enjoys the passive 24/7/365 training nature of EVE. If you go to the skills forum, you will find dozens of the super-old/super-dedicated skillers who've managed to get 200 skills to L5 or are at 200,000,000+ SP (naturally, no injectors), etc.

All of these things CCP has added to EVE that you mention haven't directly impacted the standard pay to play+skill each month format that so many of us are accustomed to. If CCP doesn't feel anyone who enjoys skilling whether they log in or not each month and "flips that switch," as you say, I think they're going to find a loooooot of people are disgruntled. Way more than usually claim to quit each and every nerf/patch.

If their target audience is nothing but new people, then get ready to lose tons of old people (aka the EVE playerbase).

Max Deveron wrote:
Veterans are waiting for something special and you are trying to say its all right to push us out the door. Wake up, its the vets keeping this game alive one way or another not the FOTM wallet warriors that cant handle this game and keep trying to change it into Star Trek, Battlstar galactica, Star Wars, WoW.........and that is a mini short list of the issues the Dev's are doing to this game.


Amen to that. Of course game companies want to get new consumers, but they can't just toss the old ones out with the bathwater. That is a risky move, assuming you can get N+x back to replace the N you've just alienated.