EVE General Discussion

Your being dumb. NS doesnt care about a damn t1 frigate!

The problem is I AM a low-sec player as well as a null-sec player. I do actually see both sides of this.

I like small group PvP in low sec. Your plan seriously harms that by encouraging a huge increase in gate-camps... which hinders/prevents low-sec roams for PvP and FW mechanics.

You have to understand that the ability to bypass combat in eve always helps small number groups in eve. It allows them to take care of logistics/intelligence gathering/travel without having to bring enough numbers to survive combat. That goes for cynos for JF's, cloaks, interdiction proof ships, whatever. While it may help large member groups as well... if you have large numbers available you can afford to throw large numbers at the problem. And in Eve that works much of the time.

Are JF's helpful for large null-sec groups? Of course. They're also helpful for small null-sec groups and low-sec groups and pay-for-haul services. The difference is that one of those categories has a large number of players to use to try to handle that difficulty... so while you're making it less convenient for them you're harming everyone else (aside from dedicated gatecampers) a lot more.

In LS, its helping the ceaseless, lol-cynoing transport of material between HS and NS.
The small corp transit is nothing compared to the HS<->NS conjoined processes of large entities.

As you yourself pointed out, where it not for the threat of hundreds of NS ships flooding LS to escort non-cyno ships, LS could handle its own logistics with sub-caps.

You cant have it both ways

No 'solution' is needed, because it's no a problem to begin with.

It's only in your small mind that there is an issue.

Cynos provide far more content then they remove, especially in facilitating convenient logistics resupply of lost PvP ships as well as the ability to move products to markets where they can sell them so they have the ISK to do so.

There is no downside to cynos in lowsec.

JFs lol-cynoing through LS with billions in cargo provide no content to LS.

Just provides convenient profit for entities running them, with a negligible chance of interception in LS.

It's like you don't understand that there won't be content if the goods don't reach the destination. The reason why so much stuff move between HS and NS is because that stuff gets used. The ship gets flown, the ammo gets shot, the fitting get fit, the mats gets processed and all of it get exploded at the end of the whole process.

Ofc I understand that.
Makes you rich for leveraging HS markets (Jita) with NS benefits.

But does this justify lol-cynoing through LS in 7+bil JFs + billions in cargo value with almost no chance of interception?

That NS resources can access HS markets (Jita/Forge) and back by passing LS with little to no risk of interception?

In HS CONCORD covers you. In LS you lol-cyno past. In NS either blue up, or lol-cyno some more.

Wtf is then even the point of LS?

Its made a mockery of, daily, by billions upon billions in cynoing value over their heads that they cant aggress.

Fair enough, but you dont need cynos in LS for that.

Not with an increase in gate camps they can't. THAT'S what I pointed out.

Your solution is to make a change that makes gate camps more likely to catch things. That increases the number of gate camps. And then who has the easiest time getting through gate camps?

Those with big numbers. That applies to LS groups as well. If you're 10 jumps out from the nearest LS/HS gateway... and there are always 4 systems camped... how are you going to manage that as a 10 man corp?

The answer... you can't. You end up moving back to highsec. If I have to jump through 15 LS systems to get to where the action is in FW and I have to navigate 6 camped systems to even get there... I'm going to do something else instead. The end result is low sec becomes all about gate camps and low-sec travel sucks.

You're missing the problem I think. Yes... there will be smaller groups who try to survive in low-sec or null-sec with this change. There will also be lazy members of large null sec groups. Those will present targets. Those targets attract more gate camps. As gate camps increase, travel becomes more difficult for EVERYONE... FW participants, low sec PVE types, low sec industry corps, small null-sec corps and large null-sec corps. EVERYONE suffers the travel difficulty from increased gatecamps.

So then the question becomes... what groups can cope with that? I think the large null sec groups will be able to by throwing numbers at it. They won't ENJOY it... but they'll be able to handle it. I'm not sure anyone else (FW, small industrial corps, PVE types, solo pirates) will be able to handle dealing with a large number of camped gates (assuming the gates are camped with enough firepower to take down freighters reasonably fast).

It seems like in your analysis you stop after the first action and response. You seem to be thinking... no cyno = freighters through low = content!

But the results keep going from that... no cyno = freighters through low = more gate camps = flight from low for those who cant handle additional gate camps = large escort fleets that can overpower gate camps = probably more responses that I can't imagine yet.

Can you imagine FW style combat if every third gate you go through is camped? That sounds really crappy to me.

Alrighty then. I do think its a problem, and Jita/Forge is the result.