These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1381 - 2016-09-19 11:20:12 UTC
Siera Bobs wrote:
and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out.


As a newer player I actually felt and still feel this, I still look around at the guys in corp talking about flying things like carriers and it sounds amazing, then I look at the skill training time and its like a year and I instantly feel like you describe, why even bother.

I am all but 100% sure that actual real alpha clones will have this very same feeling as soon as they realize that the bigger ships are a staggering amount of time away, and it only compounds and makes matters worse when they understand that getting into and actually having the skills to properly use the thing involves even more time.

I'm not against real time training, its one of the cool things about EvE, I do think that the larger training times could be tweaked and balanced to shorten the time needed to get into them.

No matter how you look at it, a new player reading the stories of epic battles and coming to try the game expecting to get involved in those big battles will be sorely disappointing when they realise the above fact.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1382 - 2016-09-19 12:06:47 UTC
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.
Samuel Nathas
Disciples of Red Tower
#1383 - 2016-09-19 16:25:49 UTC
Will the alpha clones be available on Sisi for testing purposes before being released in November?
I bet that some of us would like to see the changes in skill times (if any), queue limitations (if any) and some other options related to using alpha clones.

Have you decided on how many alpha clone clients we will be able to run on one computer?

Also, have you taken into consideration to allow Caldari and Minmatar races one more additional level of drones skill?
I do realize that of all Caldari ships only Osprey can field 4 light drones, however all of Minmatar cruisers can field 25 and more m3 of drones (it goes up to 45 m3). Same is with Navy variants of cruisers.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1384 - 2016-09-19 18:17:46 UTC
Bagatur I wrote:
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.


And even if we did...so what?

Players in game make for more content.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1385 - 2016-09-19 19:55:55 UTC
Bagatur I wrote:
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.

Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'.
Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation.

And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1386 - 2016-09-19 20:24:25 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.

Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'.
Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation.

And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing.


And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1387 - 2016-09-19 21:12:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.

*points at the last 70 pages*
People have already put a bunch of ways to abuse Alpha clones with the current limitations (assuming no limit on accounts) into this thread. RTFT.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1388 - 2016-09-19 21:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.


And can they still access it without the skills?


That is the question for ccp.

Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs?

I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1389 - 2016-09-20 02:46:45 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.


And can they still access it without the skills?


That is the question for ccp.

Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs?

I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see.

Can you skill extract this yourself on the *test* server real quick, and see the results yourself?

I'm not being nasty or anything, I don't have PI on any character or I'd test it myself. Since you seem to know, I assume you have characters that do. Test server should be safe to try that out with, so maybe you could run the test and post on this thread about how it worked out?

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1390 - 2016-09-20 04:48:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And why would this happen given the severe limitations already placed on them? You are assuming it will happen, so you must have some idea of what is going to ensure this will happen. Explain this "thing" that will ensure this.

*points at the last 70 pages*
People have already put a bunch of ways to abuse Alpha clones with the current limitations (assuming no limit on accounts) into this thread. RTFT.


I'm sorry but that is a **** explanation.

I can't tell you how many threads I have seen where it is, "Great CCP you just killed 'X'!!!!"

Hell it happened in this thread, "This will crash the SP injector market." If this were a serious thing then said market would already be crashed....and oh...no, last time I checked there was no crash.

All these apocalyptic prognostications fail to materialize.

Please, point to something that is at least somewhat more solid that we toilet paper.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1391 - 2016-09-20 15:55:01 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.


And can they still access it without the skills?


That is the question for ccp.

Can they restart extractors? Can they move pi to the customs office? Can they get pi out of customs office? Can they put extractors and factories at long cycles and have them keep working? Or does it all just shut down and gray out when the account sub runs?

I hope it is the last is the answer, but we shall see.

Can you skill extract this yourself on the *test* server real quick, and see the results yourself?

I'm not being nasty or anything, I don't have PI on any character or I'd test it myself. Since you seem to know, I assume you have characters that do. Test server should be safe to try that out with, so maybe you could run the test and post on this thread about how it worked out?


My testing was done on only on tranquility but I assume it would be the same on sisi. You can't extract interplanetary consolidation even if you are using fewer planets than your skill level allows. You also can not extract command center upgrades if you have any planets already using that level.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1392 - 2016-09-20 20:28:44 UTC
Cearain wrote:

My testing was done on only on tranquility but I assume it would be the same on sisi. You can't extract interplanetary consolidation even if you are using fewer planets than your skill level allows. You also can not extract command center upgrades if you have any planets already using that level.

From what I recall, this was because they had real issues stopping PI when extracted. This may mean they will also have real issues with alpha clones & PI. Or it may be different.
Aurelius Oshidashi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1393 - 2016-09-21 19:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Oshidashi
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:
Siera Bobs wrote:
and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out.


As a newer player I actually felt and still feel this, I still look around at the guys in corp talking about flying things like carriers and it sounds amazing, then I look at the skill training time and its like a year and I instantly feel like you describe, why even bother.

I am all but 100% sure that actual real alpha clones will have this very same feeling as soon as they realize that the bigger ships are a staggering amount of time away, and it only compounds and makes matters worse when they understand that getting into and actually having the skills to properly use the thing involves even more time.

I'm not against real time training, its one of the cool things about EvE, I do think that the larger training times could be tweaked and balanced to shorten the time needed to get into them.

No matter how you look at it, a new player reading the stories of epic battles and coming to try the game expecting to get involved in those big battles will be sorely disappointing when they realise the above fact.


You don't understand how it works dude. YouTube is full of proof that new players can easily defeat the old ones, that's because skills don't matter that much. It's much more about tactics and working together as a team.

To fly the biggest of the biggest ships you indeed need quite a long time of training, but you need this time anyway to get a feel for the mechanics of one of the most complex games ever made. If you do want to be foolish and fly a big ship early in your career, you can use skill injectors and catch up to any veteran in game. And loose your bling ship in the process probably!

Time is ISK. With ISK you can buy anything, except experience and knowledge, the most valuable things in this game next to flying with good ppl.

I don't mean it harsh, cause I get why you think this way, but you give a completely wrong depiction of how this game works and that my friend, should delight you, as the way towards getting mentioned valuable things is a very entertaining journey indeed. All the best to you!
Kaleic Karrif
Mentally Challenged Miners
#1394 - 2016-09-21 21:04:03 UTC
The Alpha Idea is a great idea at the end of the Day however I would advise adding a CreateMutex function to the games coding to prevent multiple applications from running on a single machine & to add VMWare Detection or anti VMWare aspects.



After all that is said and done, The Alpha accounts are going to be a good thing for eve with exception to the possibility for more isk spammers, scammers and yes even pirate gankers.

I Do agree with the Safty Enabled option for Alpha accounts as the default, however I believe it would be detrimental to remove their chat access. I would advise to place an ISK requirement per zone to use local chat something like 1 - 10 Million ISK to speak in Local chat. per system. Corp chat can be free, Private channel chat can also be free. To take away a new players chat is a crippling move to their ability to learn the game.

I would also advise further changes to the Tutorial system. I have brought 3 new players in in just the last week and the new tutorial is harder than the original as it does not specify that you can complete the tasks ANYWHERE people believe they must only complete them in the spot they are at there should be, add something to help them realize what to do.

Add more training for Overview use.

Aside from that I am happy to see changes to increase player population.

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#1395 - 2016-09-22 19:23:56 UTC
Could we have a bit of quick clarification regarding one of CCP Seagull's answers in her Q&A with Ashterothi regarding PI?

When the question came up regarding things like PI, the wording could be taken either way. Is PI being seen as something that is definitely exploitable, and will thus be disabled on Alpha clones? Or is the current plan to take a wait-and-see approach with PI, to see if it becomes exploitable?

You can get two or three solid PI chars in 30 days, depending on whether you need Customs Code Expertise. If it isn't already seen as exploitable to sub once and walk away with two or three passive income-makers for the rest of the game, it really should be reconsidered.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1396 - 2016-09-24 12:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
I can create combat effective fleets out of t1 frigates and cruisers. If you let us play multiple alpha clones, this thing will scale to infinity.

Economy wise, I can imagine the vexor spam, they don't even have the price of plex as overheads!

Also, venture spam: the only limiting factor is CPU power.

If alphas are like trial accounts: you cant log in multiple alphas at once to grind isk or fight - then things would be far more sane.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1397 - 2016-09-24 13:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
ffs what is this paranoia about swarms of Alphas here and hordes of Alphas there? do we see swarms and hordes of trials everywhere now? and Alphas are just unlimited trials. there is no reason to think that CCP will change the login limitations for Alphas.

Except for the bit where CCP have said they are 'considering if they need to implement login restrictions'.
Meaning that currently they don't have a login limitation.

And for why this is a bad thing Teckos, because they wouldn't be 'Players' in game. More players (who are worth interacting with and not spewing bile) are a good thing I agree. However each system becoming 100 alts of the same player is a bad thing.



I think alphas need to work the same way trial accounts do in restricting multiple logins, otherwise it becomes a FREE ALT SPAM mechanic.

If you think the alt spam won't happen, you're forgetting what game you're playing. Every veteran, who knows the meaning of the term opportunity cost, will make full use of this. If I am invested in this game, I can't afford not to use a billion free alts if you make the option available. I would rather prefer not to do it, but if circumstances dictate that it is the path to the most profit, I'll do it.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1398 - 2016-09-25 05:44:00 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I can create combat effective fleets out of t1 frigates and cruisers. If you let us play multiple alpha clones, this thing will scale to infinity.

Economy wise, I can imagine the vexor spam, they don't even have the price of plex as overheads!

Also, venture spam: the only limiting factor is CPU power.

If alphas are like trial accounts: you cant log in multiple alphas at once to grind isk or fight - then things would be far more sane.


Please yes...the ganking opportunities are boundless. :P

On a more serious note, yes it seems some sort of limit on the number of alpha accounts logged in at one time might be a wise decision.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tarkk Prime
Doomheim
#1399 - 2016-09-25 17:10:26 UTC
Will Alpha clones be able to use the contract system?
Alotta Fagiina
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1400 - 2016-09-28 07:49:32 UTC
So if we already have an active account, doe this mean other alts on same account cant use there skills they have trained for specific tasks?

Or does this only apply to completely unsubbed accounts?