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We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#241 - 2016-08-19 13:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Tldr, because maybe my post it is too long and ambiguous: I was talking about how long does it take to play eve full set of options aka being able to pilot and familiarised with end game ships, which might get you eligible to switch alliances at will when there's too much drama or inactivity; thus having more choices (some more efficient) of access the same content and not about how fast a new player can get into the game.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#242 - 2016-08-19 14:15:58 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:

It takes years to be able to pilot certain ships.


As well it should. What, you think everyone should get handed a titan on day 1? You think some effort shouldn't be required to get into ships that can put the alien mothership from independence day to shame?


Exactly. People make suggestions that amount to "if you dumb down the game, make things easier, "lower the barriers" of entry, they will come". CCP operated on that premise for years.

No, they won't come , because the real barriers (the time it takes to 'progress' and the non-consensual pvp nature that underlies everything in EVE) are red lines that the average MMO player will not cross, not matter how much easier you make everything else. And into that the average MMO players (false) idea of "I will never catch up to people who have played for 12 years" and you end up with an MMO most MMO players will pass on.

There is no fix for that because the thing that would need fixing (the attitudes of most people who choose MMOs as a good use of their entertainment dollars) isn't fixable by a niche game maker (or anyone else).
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#243 - 2016-08-19 15:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
I'm not talking about making it easier, I'm talking about the lack of envirnoment that would give new players a a sense of identy within the game.

Like Brave was during the famous "This is Eve!" promo. Witnessed a few fresh rookies asking directly in the starter npc chat a single question: "How do I join Brave?".

Haven't seen that happening since and in the absence of alliances with a sort of lore in background there is no real involvement in game play. Like BoB or Goons were once, like Brave was or Black Legion.

Farming, camping, baiting or all the other known forms of fuckery are available to anyone and everyone but is not what holds a group together. If you want to retain new players you need to give them something worth associating and fighting for, a sense of pride and identiy in being part from a collective; and that can come only from dedicated players and an environment that permits developing that sort of interacton.. instead all the potential that could allow unique development in game (from the players) is pushed towards a generic, one-dimensional sort of gameplay.

Take fw for example. Every new player learns that "You want fleet content you join Gallente, you want farming you join Caldari etc"... you want this you go there and if you want that you come over here. No challenge at all in picking a path but no great satisfaction ever. Everything is set up you only need to apply and press F1. Afraid that isn't enough personal involvement to make a player feel he has achieved something. Prob a peasant planting and onion and harvesting it experiences more satisfaction.

Try starting something from zero in eve and you'll end up with the consolation of a green killboard or a fat wallet at best. For some people that is enough but is far from the complexity Eve strives to be. Only the mechanics are not enough.

Yeah you can build your own citadel but so what? Yeah you can start your own pirate gang but there are already thousands of them. Yeah, you can bait a bear but youtube is full of can flipping. It is like going to the zoo to see the cage where the monkeys live, then pay a visit to the elephant, stare at the croq in the pool and don't feed the koalas.... but it is just a visit to the zoo. You don't actually get to fight a lion in the arena because the lion got so much isk that he bought all the colliseum and the emperor as a bonus.

At the end of the journey you can only say good thing I've seen this movie, now I know what the other guys in the coffee shop are talking about and can participate in the smart ass talk too...

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#244 - 2016-08-19 15:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
People like this mean well, but it's backwards IMO. You don't help people get into a game like this by 'giving them an identity', you help them by letting them find their own. EVE is TOO new player friendly right now.

CCP meant well, but like modern helicopter parents they get it wrong and end up making players who can't cope. EVE is about coping, no amount of 'flight academy videos' or warning pop up or game mechanics and substitute for coping skills.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#245 - 2016-08-19 16:21:35 UTC
I tell my RL friend Ashley about Eve all the time but she doesn't have a quality gaming PC or the time. She's interested though and i think she will try it eventually

That's about all I've done to grow our game. The end. Smile

@lunettelulu7

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#246 - 2016-08-19 16:24:35 UTC
Allowing the player to find an identiy is what I'm also talking about. "Giving players an identy" is no achievable irl not to mention in Eve. Making a comparison to sports I'm talking about a sort of loyal supporters of a team vs. sport connoisseurs situation. Both can appreciate but only one is passionate and actively involved. Being just a game and not a form of art there isn't much subtlety that can keep a connoisseur around for too long.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Viktor Amarr
#247 - 2016-08-19 16:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
Drago Shouna wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
EVE is a PVP game through and through, there are very little activities within EVE that are pure PVE. Having PVE doesn't somehow prove that this game isn't about PVP.

In fact, PVE in EVE was literally an after thought. This is easily proven by how ****** the NPC are and how even more ****** and terrible they were for the first decade of the game. CCP went "oh crap uhm PVE you say... we'll just sprinkle in some NPC with basic AI and it'll be done, who cares" kind of way. The AI, quality of the missions etc etc is crap because it never was CCP's goal to make it good, because PVE wasn't a focus at all.

This all doesn't mean you can't do or aren't allowed to do PVE. You can focus on PVE just fine and perhaps even get away with it but stating that EVE is a PVE game is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALA I can't HEAR you!". Reality doesn't go away if you close your eyes and wish it to vanish.



Oh look another one utterly and completely ignoring the op and jumping on the bandwagon with other regulars turning this into another threadnaught about pvp vs pve.....which wasn't the point of the thread.

So we have some trying to come up with suggestions about getting and keeping players in the game, and others intent on derailing the thread and getting it locked....way to go :/


Discussions can change as they go along, deal with it. In fact, a quick glance shows that you post about the PVP<>PVE thing yourself. You just don't like what I stated and like all carebears would rather that people who don't agree with you (especially if they make good points) would shut up.

Because that is the carebear way: Stifle any sort of competitive interaction.
Solecist Project
#248 - 2016-08-19 17:06:35 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
EVE is a PVP game through and through, there are very little activities within EVE that are pure PVE. Having PVE doesn't somehow prove that this game isn't about PVP.

In fact, PVE in EVE was literally an after thought. This is easily proven by how ****** the NPC are and how even more ****** and terrible they were for the first decade of the game. CCP went "oh crap uhm PVE you say... we'll just sprinkle in some NPC with basic AI and it'll be done, who cares" kind of way. The AI, quality of the missions etc etc is crap because it never was CCP's goal to make it good, because PVE wasn't a focus at all.

This all doesn't mean you can't do or aren't allowed to do PVE. You can focus on PVE just fine and perhaps even get away with it but stating that EVE is a PVE game is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALA I can't HEAR you!". Reality doesn't go away if you close your eyes and wish it to vanish.



Oh look another one utterly and completely ignoring the op and jumping on the bandwagon with other regulars turning this into another threadnaught about pvp vs pve.....which wasn't the point of the thread.

So we have some trying to come up with suggestions about getting and keeping players in the game, and others intent on derailing the thread and getting it locked....way to go :/


Discussions can change as they go along, deal with it. In fact, a quick glance shows that you post about the PVP<>PVE thing yourself. You just don't like what I stated and like all carebears would rather that people who don't agree with you (especially if they make good points) would shut up.

Because that is the carebear way: Stifle any sort of competitive interaction.

Please don't go there, you'd just argue around and end the thread.
It would take at least a month until a proper new one gets created and not just locked. :/

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Tristan Agion
10.K
#249 - 2016-08-19 17:38:18 UTC
If subscriber numbers do not grow or at least stay relatively stable, then ultimately CCP will shut this game down. It may be satisfying in an ideological sense if EVE stays "true to its roots" until it dies - but if you prefer actually playing EVE, rather than composing eulogies about it, then change is apparently required. So say the subscriber numbers.

It is also a simple fact that PVP plays a minor role in most EVE players lives. Here I mean actual spaceship pew-pew with PVP, not "market PVP" or any other of the many ways in which players can compete with each other online. Even the most dedicated hunter roaming low sec will spend a lot more time looking for a fight than actually fighting. And probably has a PVE alt to finance his PVP habit, which de facto means even more login time spent not actually engaging in pew-pew. EVE is simply not a PVP game in the same way that say Overwatch is a PVP game.

Furthermore, from wormhole crabs to nullbears, all EVE space is filled with people who mostly do not PVP, but PVE or simply hang out. Doubly so in highsec, where the majority of EVE players spend their time, but where PVP is negligible statistically speaking. Yes, you will be blapped on Jita undock if you sit in a PLEX-tanked T1-hauler. But most people just don't do that... You can tell that PVP is near irrelevant in high sec for example by noting that there are not only brick-tanked Skiffs with dishonour drones mining in the belts.

Here's a little thought experiment: if we took an average over all EVE toons that have logged in at some point or the other, how much login time would pass between two PVP events (either getting killed, or killing) for them? I'm certain this would be a few hours, probably days. Possibly weeks. Of actual login time (time spent in game), not real time. Keep in mind we are talking global averages here, not what some dedicated PVPer might experience...

So that's how things really are. Whether you think PVP (meaning here spaceship pew-pew) is the bestest thing ever, or irrelevant, or even something you hate - it is de facto not what most EVE players do most of the time. So if too many people are leaving EVE, presumably dissatisfied, and if too many people fail to join EVE after trying it out, presumably unimpressed, and if too many people do not even try EVE, presumably not attracted - then is it reasonable to think that you can change that by fixing (or fixating on) PVP?

No, it isn't. Most likely you need to work on those parts of the game that most people engage in most of the time - which is not spaceship pew-pew. If CCP gets that, and does that, then you might well be playing EVE for another decade. If not, then I suggest that you start composing your tearful tributes to EVE. Maybe a Dust bunny can lend you a handkerchief.
Judaa K'Marr
Shadow Legions.
#250 - 2016-08-19 17:39:59 UTC
Instead of just saying "eve should retain more players" what is the specific number of subs EVE "should" have? 1 million, 2 million, 10 million?

There are very few games that make that amount, and they get so high specifically because they appeal to the masses. If WoW were to overnight become a full loot, open world, hardcore game then millions would flood out and it probably drop to......eve level of subs.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#251 - 2016-08-19 18:31:04 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
If subscriber numbers do not grow or at least stay relatively stable, then ultimately CCP will shut this game down. It may be satisfying in an ideological sense if EVE stays "true to its roots" until it dies - but if you prefer actually playing EVE, rather than composing eulogies about it, then change is apparently required. So say the subscriber numbers.

It is also a simple fact that PVP plays a minor role in most EVE players lives. Here I mean actual spaceship pew-pew with PVP, not "market PVP" or any other of the many ways in which players can compete with each other online. Even the most dedicated hunter roaming low sec will spend a lot more time looking for a fight than actually fighting. And probably has a PVE alt to finance his PVP habit, which de facto means even more login time spent not actually engaging in pew-pew. EVE is simply not a PVP game in the same way that say Overwatch is a PVP game.

Furthermore, from wormhole crabs to nullbears, all EVE space is filled with people who mostly do not PVP, but PVE or simply hang out. Doubly so in highsec, where the majority of EVE players spend their time, but where PVP is negligible statistically speaking. Yes, you will be blapped on Jita undock if you sit in a PLEX-tanked T1-hauler. But most people just don't do that... You can tell that PVP is near irrelevant in high sec for example by noting that there are not only brick-tanked Skiffs with dishonour drones mining in the belts.

Here's a little thought experiment: if we took an average over all EVE toons that have logged in at some point or the other, how much login time would pass between two PVP events (either getting killed, or killing) for them? I'm certain this would be a few hours, probably days. Possibly weeks. Of actual login time (time spent in game), not real time. Keep in mind we are talking global averages here, not what some dedicated PVPer might experience...

So that's how things really are. Whether you think PVP (meaning here spaceship pew-pew) is the bestest thing ever, or irrelevant, or even something you hate - it is de facto not what most EVE players do most of the time. So if too many people are leaving EVE, presumably dissatisfied, and if too many people fail to join EVE after trying it out, presumably unimpressed, and if too many people do not even try EVE, presumably not attracted - then is it reasonable to think that you can change that by fixing (or fixating on) PVP?

No, it isn't. Most likely you need to work on those parts of the game that most people engage in most of the time - which is not spaceship pew-pew. If CCP gets that, and does that, then you might well be playing EVE for another decade. If not, then I suggest that you start composing your tearful tributes to EVE. Maybe a Dust bunny can lend you a handkerchief.




Well thought out and simple description.

Since the start of this thread I started to look around at the "true" PVP games and as I may have pointed out elsewhere, the kind of character and loadout/vehicle customization that Eve Online offers to players is occurring in PVP games.

That is, Halo players can customize their armor or choose not to, and the equipment they spawn with. I see games, the "world of " battle games, notably let you customize whatever kind of vehicle you are using and also direct your own skills with them.

But.. in those games, you can be fighting in mere minutes. People go to PVP games for PVP. It would appear that the whole time of "Eve is a PVP game hurr durr sanbox hurr durrr gank gank gank!" was a lie. It was PVe all along.

Now I won't say that these other games offer as big a variety of customization as Eve does with ship fittings and SP. In fact I would say that rigging and fittings of ships and SP allocation is pure genius. (Though Tiericide is apparently becoming a huge mistake). Eve's customization of fittings and skills is probably some of the best.

But it would appear that the big kid on the block won't be the only one when others find out they can lift weights too, so to speak.

For a long time perhaps maybe it was the PVPers leaving Eve, but with only a small minority of miscreants claiming that this was due to nerfs to ganking (apparently most of the gankers are alts of nullseccers who don't get enough PVP) but if they left it may have had more to do with advances in designs of other games than any kind of nerf from CCP.

But as the baby that cries the loudest gets fed the most, CCP may have been goaded into neglecting PVe. Or there's a faction in power that is all about this PVP dream and taken things down the wrong road? The same old PVe year after year does get boring. And seeing what an unholy grind that Serpentis event was, it's understandable that the playerbase is going "meh" about what would have once been considered epic changes to the game. Transport all of these changes back to say 2008-2010 and there would have been certifiable cases of death by nerdgasm. But it would appear the kind of people who would have cared are gone already.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#252 - 2016-08-19 18:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tristan Agion wrote:
If subscriber numbers do not grow or at least stay relatively stable, then ultimately CCP will shut this game down. It may be satisfying in an ideological sense if EVE stays "true to its roots" until it dies - but if you prefer actually playing EVE, rather than composing eulogies about it, then change is apparently required. So say the subscriber numbers.

It is also a simple fact that PVP plays a minor role in most EVE players lives. Here I mean actual spaceship pew-pew with PVP, not "market PVP" or any other of the many ways in which players can compete with each other online. Even the most dedicated hunter roaming low sec will spend a lot more time looking for a fight than actually fighting. And probably has a PVE alt to finance his PVP habit, which de facto means even more login time spent not actually engaging in pew-pew. EVE is simply not a PVP game in the same way that say Overwatch is a PVP game.

Furthermore, from wormhole crabs to nullbears, all EVE space is filled with people who mostly do not PVP, but PVE or simply hang out. Doubly so in highsec, where the majority of EVE players spend their time, but where PVP is negligible statistically speaking. Yes, you will be blapped on Jita undock if you sit in a PLEX-tanked T1-hauler. But most people just don't do that... You can tell that PVP is near irrelevant in high sec for example by noting that there are not only brick-tanked Skiffs with dishonour drones mining in the belts.

Here's a little thought experiment: if we took an average over all EVE toons that have logged in at some point or the other, how much login time would pass between two PVP events (either getting killed, or killing) for them? I'm certain this would be a few hours, probably days. Possibly weeks. Of actual login time (time spent in game), not real time. Keep in mind we are talking global averages here, not what some dedicated PVPer might experience...

So that's how things really are. Whether you think PVP (meaning here spaceship pew-pew) is the bestest thing ever, or irrelevant, or even something you hate - it is de facto not what most EVE players do most of the time. So if too many people are leaving EVE, presumably dissatisfied, and if too many people fail to join EVE after trying it out, presumably unimpressed, and if too many people do not even try EVE, presumably not attracted - then is it reasonable to think that you can change that by fixing (or fixating on) PVP?

No, it isn't. Most likely you need to work on those parts of the game that most people engage in most of the time - which is not spaceship pew-pew. If CCP gets that, and does that, then you might well be playing EVE for another decade. If not, then I suggest that you start composing your tearful tributes to EVE. Maybe a Dust bunny can lend you a handkerchief.


This is the standard orthodox thinking people have. "Fix/enhance the parts of the game that people play" and more people will play.

It's wrong. The people doing those non-pvp things prove it. PVErs prove it every day when we don't leave this PVP centric game. The above post really just an example of people thinking they know what they want, but not understanding what they need. Real PVErs know we need PVP to be strong.

Look at the history of EVE. People clamor for more safety. They get more safety (actual safeties, anchor rigs, ehp buffs, faster CONCORD, invincible in game police, disposables that stop regular cynos, target lock break modules etc etc etc). Result, fewer players and people feel even less safe.

People Clamor of more PVE. They get more PVE since 2009 (incursions, sleepers, burners, re-balanced DED complexes, new missions, epic arcs, Drifters etc). Result: most people are still saving the damsel or attacking Angel/Blood/Guristas in their Havens and Sanctum and disregarding all the new "better" PVE.

People Clamored for easier exploration and a better scanning system. They got it, and a mini game and loot spew to boot. Result? Explorers hate their own profession.

People clamored for those evil gankers/griefers/awoxxers/can flippers to be nerfed. They most did get nerfed. The result, ticked off gankers who gank more, more crafty awoxxers, and bored PVErs who didn't realize that the skills they learned and used to thwart those kinds of people in the past were fun and gave PVE value, now 'safeties' and awox toggles and stuff do the job for us, revealing to us just how damn boring saving that freaking Damsel is.

I could go on and on. And all the while people are begging for stuff while hoping to get CCP to take the focus off the only thing that really gives EVE meaning: Those A-hole "pvp'rs" who won't leave us alone....but who really provide us all with a situation where our actions and ships and items have MEANING. Because despite it's lack of zombies, EVE is also a survival game.

I know it seems counter-intuitive, because it is, but if you want the game to go back to flourishing, you will want CCP to go back to ignoring everything that isn't directly PVP related, even those of us who PVE know EVE isn't about PVE or being told some canned story in a mission/complex, it's about surviving in the face of hungry PVP jocks, and laughing at them while warping way with the loot/ore/gas they didn't want us to take.

Getting the loot is PVE, getting away with it is PVP.
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#253 - 2016-08-19 19:42:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:

It takes years to be able to pilot certain ships.


As well it should. What, you think everyone should get handed a titan on day 1? You think some effort shouldn't be required to get into ships that can put the alien mothership from independence day to shame?


Exactly. People make suggestions that amount to "if you dumb down the game, make things easier, "lower the barriers" of entry, they will come". CCP operated on that premise for years.

No, they won't come , because the real barriers (the time it takes to 'progress' and the non-consensual pvp nature that underlies everything in EVE) are red lines that the average MMO player will not cross, not matter how much easier you make everything else. And into that the average MMO players (false) idea of "I will never catch up to people who have played for 12 years" and you end up with an MMO most MMO players will pass on.

There is no fix for that because the thing that would need fixing (the attitudes of most people who choose MMOs as a good use of their entertainment dollars) isn't fixable by a niche game maker (or anyone else).


LOL it doesn't take years and never has to fly certain ships. Also with skill injectors it can take minutes now or did you forget that
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#254 - 2016-08-19 19:49:13 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:

It takes years to be able to pilot certain ships.


As well it should. What, you think everyone should get handed a titan on day 1? You think some effort shouldn't be required to get into ships that can put the alien mothership from independence day to shame?


Exactly. People make suggestions that amount to "if you dumb down the game, make things easier, "lower the barriers" of entry, they will come". CCP operated on that premise for years.

No, they won't come , because the real barriers (the time it takes to 'progress' and the non-consensual pvp nature that underlies everything in EVE) are red lines that the average MMO player will not cross, not matter how much easier you make everything else. And into that the average MMO players (false) idea of "I will never catch up to people who have played for 12 years" and you end up with an MMO most MMO players will pass on.

There is no fix for that because the thing that would need fixing (the attitudes of most people who choose MMOs as a good use of their entertainment dollars) isn't fixable by a niche game maker (or anyone else).


LOL it doesn't take years and never has to fly certain ships. Also with skill injectors it can take minutes now or did you forget that


Exactly where did I say it took years to fly certain ships?
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#255 - 2016-08-19 20:04:13 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
LOL it doesn't take years and never has to fly certain ships. Also with skill injectors it can take minutes now or did you forget that
That all depends on how you define fly, sure I can dump a load of money into skill injectors and undock in a wtfbbqpwnmobile tomorrow, but can I actually fly it effectively?

Being able to use it effectively does take time, because it requires experience and knowledge, both of which take time to accrue.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#256 - 2016-08-19 21:28:51 UTC
There is one thing that could be done that i believe will help keep the new people. get them into a decent corp ASAP!

how about us players starting up some sort of recruitment agency?

where corps are vetted to be capable and worth joining, active, friendly and do what the players is interested in.

a new ERA (EVE Recruitment Agency) Smile
Tristan Agion
10.K
#257 - 2016-08-20 00:48:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
"Fix/enhance the parts of the game that people play" and more people will play. It's wrong.

That remains to be seen. We simply do not know what EVE would be like if NPCs had a brain and came in more random waves. We do not know what EVE would be like if it actually encouraged social interaction apart from corps. We don't know what might happen if EVE spaceships were heavily customisable not just concerning battle-related modules. We do not know what markets would be like if they were more complex than simply listing all offers for all to see in one spot. We do not know what would happen if skills had more complex relationships with each other than a linear progression. We do not know how player would respond to a heavy infusion of lore through sophisticated story-NPCs. Etc. There are so many things that could be done. Not all of them would turn out to be good, of course. But the point is that it simply hasn't been tried much.

Jenn aSide wrote:
PVErs prove it every day when we don't leave this PVP centric game.

It's not a PVP-centric game, at least not considering how it is actually being played by most players. It is marketed as PVP-centric, and has been developed with (maybe too much) emphasis on PVP. But that's not the same thing.

Jenn aSide wrote:
The above post really just an example of people thinking they know what they want, but not understanding what they need. Real PVErs know we need PVP to be strong.

I have said nothing about abolishing or weakening PVP, and very little about what I personally would want. I've made a simple assessment of what people actually do in EVE, and I have drawn some general conclusions about maintaining subscriber numbers from it.

Jenn aSide wrote:
I know it seems counter-intuitive, because it is, but if you want the game to go back to flourishing, you will want CCP to go back to ignoring everything that isn't directly PVP related

There have been umpteen iterations of just that. It has not been working, and trying it several times more will not result in a different outcome.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2016-08-20 01:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Tristan Agion wrote:
It may be satisfying in an ideological sense if EVE stays "true to its roots" until it dies - but if you prefer actually playing EVE...


Then I want it to stay true to its roots, otherwise it's not EVE. You came so close to getting it, and then somehow managed to miss completely. EVE dies when it becomes something that's not EVE, do you understand? If EVE has to become something it's not, at its core, to attract new players, then that's fine, but EVE still dies. Whether it becomes something else, or it dies of naturaly causes, it still dies either way. I'm not saying it can't change, or grow up, but it has to be change that acknowledges the nature of EVE, change that drives the conflict and the PVP and the social dynamic that is its core experience.

I don't just want to play EVE for the sake of playing a game called EVE, I want to play the EVE I subscribed to. There is nothing ideological about that, it's all about what kind of gaming experience I'm looking for, and if EVE fails to deliver that, I'll find something else to play, just as I tell others to do when they find EVE is not the gameplay experience they were looking for, and beg for it to change to accommodate them.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#259 - 2016-08-20 02:04:13 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

If you, or anyone else (me included) can't be bothered to read things, that's hardly CCP's fault.

You asked where the information is. There it is.

Yes, indeed it is on page 22 of 38 of the new Pilot FAQ Roll. But then let us not act surprised when the game bleeds subscriptions.

Threads like these are worthless because what CCP needs is what CCP doesn't want. Or, this game is about a small percentage of players needing to be consistently fed fodder. Either be a ganker, be a gankee, or go back to WOW. That's it. Those are your three options. And you're not wanted unless you fit one of the first two. These are the two "careers" that ads should be promoting.

The only persons I would recommend Eve to are severely demented people in need of a relief valve. Why do I still play Eve? Well, I don't. I used to play in spite of the horrendous mean-spirited attitude of players because I enjoy sci-fi games with complexity (not many choices out there).

So then, what will save Eve? Hard to tell. I guess they could believe the rhetoric that's been spewed for so long (that this game is not meant for the masses) and slash infrastructure, work force, and resources to accommodate its few elitist players. Trim the fat. But then you have the problem on how to keep the elitists around without fodder to feed them. Quite the conundrum.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2016-08-20 02:23:16 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

If you, or anyone else (me included) can't be bothered to read things, that's hardly CCP's fault.

You asked where the information is. There it is.

Yes, indeed it is on page 22 of 38 of the new Pilot FAQ Roll. But then let us not act surprised when the game bleeds subscriptions.

Threads like these are worthless because what CCP needs is what CCP doesn't want. Or, this game is about a small percentage of players needing to be consistently fed fodder. Either be a ganker, be a gankee, or go back to WOW. That's it. Those are your three options. And you're not wanted unless you fit one of the first two. These are the two "careers" that ads should be promoting.

The only persons I would recommend Eve to are severely demented people in need of a relief valve. Why do I still play Eve? Well, I don't. I used to play in spite of the horrendous mean-spirited attitude of players because I enjoy sci-fi games with complexity (not many choices out there).

So then, what will save Eve? Hard to tell. I guess they could believe the rhetoric that's been spewed for so long (that this game is not meant for the masses) and slash infrastructure, work force, and resources to accommodate its few elitist players. Trim the fat. But then you have the problem on how to keep the elitists around without fodder to feed them. Quite the conundrum.


The game is 'bleeding' subs? No, it's 'bleeding' alts, but if it is losing people, it's veterans that have been here are while and are disappointed with the game's direction. At the end of the day though, if you don't play it, then you don't know what it is, and don't need to be here. If you don't play it, then how can you even pretend you have something relevant to say about it? You don't. Obviously though, you're still happy to give CCP your money otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum. What was it you said about being severely demented again?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104