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We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2016-08-20 08:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Re-do literally the entire Tutorial/NPE, and actually make it informative. Why are new players being started in Cistuvaert, for example, when all their career agents are in Clellinon, and only being given a mail that really doesn't mean anything to them because they just logged in for the first time, don't even know how to set a destination. (gallente)


The flight school video's are a HUGE step in the right direction, but stuff like that needs to be IN game, not just sitting on youtube.



Also, while these opportunities are 'nice,' but they need to not directly conflict with the purpose of the tutorial. Either they need to be massively beefed up to BE the tutorial, or introduced during or after the tutorials.


EDIT: Also redo half the shortcuts. The default settings on this game are horrid. Why are the items and ships hangars not automatically defaulted as merged into your station panel?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Tristan Agion
10.K
#262 - 2016-08-20 09:23:47 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Then I want it to stay true to its roots, otherwise it's not EVE. You came so close to getting it, and then somehow managed to miss completely. EVE dies when it becomes something that's not EVE, do you understand? If EVE has to become something it's not, at its core, to attract new players, then that's fine, but EVE still dies. Whether it becomes something else, or it dies of naturaly causes, it still dies either way. I'm not saying it can't change, or grow up, but it has to be change that acknowledges the nature of EVE, change that drives the conflict and the PVP and the social dynamic that is its core experience.

I do understand where you are coming from. I just disagree.

Obviously it's all a matter of degree. If EVE game play was replaced by multiplayer Tetris, then EVE indeed would have died even if that game was still called EVE and made by CCP. However, there is typically a narrowness and one-sidedness to these definitions. Frankly, it's a lot like talking about pop music. A lot of people have the opinion that "pop music was great in the decade when I was a young adult, but since then it has gone downhill and the stuff young people listen to today is just garbage." And measured by the standards of the decade when they were young adults, they are quite reasonable in their assessment. But that does not make current pop music actually garbage (or more garbage than most pop music always is). Just different. Evolved, or if you want to be less friendly, mutated. In particular, it is still pop music.

EVE cannot be strictly held to whatever the first generations of pilots really enjoyed. Anachronism does not pay server bills. It could have been the case that freezing EVE as kind of living museum, enjoyed largely by the same group of people as in the beginning, pays off. Just like there are radio stations that have only 80s/90s music on their rotation. But apparently this is not the case, or at least not the case enough. EVE seems to be slowly fading, and CCP cannot really be blamed for trying to stop that by changing EVE away from certain ideals once held by most of its players.

My point has not been "outlaw gankers", or whatever. My point has been that most people most of the time do not pew-pew in EVE. And that it would be worthwhile for CCP to invest significant time and resources into improving and polishing the parts of the game in which player (for better or worse) do spend most of their online time. The attitude that all but the pew-pew can be quite Spartan and lacklustre because it "just doesn't count" is in my opinion mistaken. That may have been the attitude of the people that played the early versions, but I don't think that it is the attitude of people coming in now. And if CCP needs them, then it has to adapt EVE accordingly. Sooner rather than later.
Solecist Project
#263 - 2016-08-20 09:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Kenrailae wrote:
Re-do literally the entire Tutorial/NPE, and actually make it informative. Why are new players being started in Cistuvaert, for example, when all their career agents are in Clellinon, and only being given a mail that really doesn't mean anything to them because they just logged in for the first time, don't even know how to set a destination. (gallente)


The flight school video's are a HUGE step in the right direction, but stuff like that needs to be IN game, not just sitting on youtube.



Also, while these opportunities are 'nice,' but they need to not directly conflict with the purpose of the tutorial. Either they need to be massively beefed up to BE the tutorial, or introduced during or after the tutorials.

New tutorials change nothing. I'll step on your toe with this, but I doubt you have any idea how they should work and just think the current ones are bad.

While not wrong per se, considering history they're not needed.
We have them, because CCP started attempting to attract players of lower quality compared to past ones.

I certainly didn't need any ...
... so the question "why do they?" is 100% legit.

There is no tutorial in the world that can replace proper interaction with others. Zero. None. Zilch.

The real issue is relying on authority, CCP, to do the job players not only should be doing ...
... but also could be doing in a much better way than any tutorials involving NPCs.

CCP is struggling with new players for self made reasons.
It's like asking banks to fix the economy they deliberately ruined for their own profits ...
... aka a simple minded approach and not how things should work.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#264 - 2016-08-20 09:29:20 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Re-do literally the entire Tutorial/NPE, and actually make it informative. Why are new players being started in Cistuvaert, for example, when all their career agents are in Clellinon, and only being given a mail that really doesn't mean anything to them because they just logged in for the first time, don't even know how to set a destination. (gallente)


The flight school video's are a HUGE step in the right direction, but stuff like that needs to be IN game, not just sitting on youtube.



Also, while these opportunities are 'nice,' but they need to not directly conflict with the purpose of the tutorial. Either they need to be massively beefed up to BE the tutorial, or introduced during or after the tutorials.

New tutorials change nothing. I'll step on your toe with this, but I doubt you have any idea how they should work and just think the current ones are bad.

While not wrong per se, considering history they're not needed.
We have them, because CCP started attempting to attract players of lower quality compared to past ones.

I certainly didn't need any ...
... so the question "why do they?" is 100% legit.

There is no tutorial in the world that can replace proper interaction with others. Zero. None. Zilch.

The real issue is relying on authority, CCP, to do the job players not only should be doing ...
... but also could be doing in a much better way than any tutorials involving NPCs.

CCP is struggling with new players for self made reasons.
It's like asking banks to fix the economy they deliberately ruined for their own profits ...
... aka a simple minded approach and not how things should work.




Well, I'll go so far as to say what you think you know and what you actually know are two entirely different things. And I'm not going to waste my time trying to inform you since you've already made up your mind.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#265 - 2016-08-20 09:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Tristan Agion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Then I want it to stay true to its roots, otherwise it's not EVE. You came so close to getting it, and then somehow managed to miss completely. EVE dies when it becomes something that's not EVE, do you understand? If EVE has to become something it's not, at its core, to attract new players, then that's fine, but EVE still dies. Whether it becomes something else, or it dies of naturaly causes, it still dies either way. I'm not saying it can't change, or grow up, but it has to be change that acknowledges the nature of EVE, change that drives the conflict and the PVP and the social dynamic that is its core experience.

I do understand where you are coming from. I just disagree.

Obviously it's all a matter of degree. If EVE game play was replaced by multiplayer Tetris, then EVE indeed would have died even if that game was still called EVE and made by CCP. However, there is typically a narrowness and one-sidedness to these definitions. Frankly, it's a lot like talking about pop music. A lot of people have the opinion that "pop music was great in the decade when I was a young adult, but since then it has gone downhill and the stuff young people listen to today is just garbage." And measured by the standards of the decade when they were young adults, they are quite reasonable in their assessment. But that does not make current pop music actually garbage (or more garbage than most pop music always is). Just different. Evolved, or if you want to be less friendly, mutated. In particular, it is still pop music.

EVE cannot be strictly held to whatever the first generations of pilots really enjoyed. Anachronism does not pay server bills. It could have been the case that freezing EVE as kind of living museum, enjoyed largely by the same group of people as in the beginning, pays off. Just like there are radio stations that have only 80s/90s music on their rotation. But apparently this is not the case, or at least not the case enough. EVE seems to be slowly fading, and CCP cannot really be blamed for trying to stop that by changing EVE away from certain ideals once held by most of its players.

My point has not been "outlaw gankers", or whatever. My point has been that most people most of the time do not pew-pew in EVE. And that it would be worthwhile for CCP to invest significant time and resources into improving and polishing the parts of the game in which player (for better or worse) do spend most of their online time. The attitude that all but the pew-pew can be quite Spartan and lacklustre because it "just doesn't count" is in my opinion mistaken. That may have been the attitude of the people that played the early versions, but I don't think that it is the attitude of people coming in now. And if CCP needs them, then it has to adapt EVE accordingly. Sooner rather than later.


This has been done before to a MMO called Star Wars Galxaies.

The decision was made to scrap the core of the game and turn it into something radically different, more mainstream, less dangerous and complicated. Upon relese of the NGE the population nosedived, within a month the population was a fraction of what it was and it stayed there. The game continued for a few years with flagging numbers before being shut down.

The lesson was rather clear, if you change the core of game to chase an imaginary larger playerbase you will kill the game. That larger audience doesn't exist and you alienate the loyal customers you have.
Solecist Project
#266 - 2016-08-20 09:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Kenrailae wrote:

Well, I'll go so far as to say what you think you know and what you actually know are two entirely different things. And I'm not going to waste my time trying to inform you since you've already made up your mind.

Okay ...

So you indirectly and unintentionally admit that big brother should take care of things you think need to be adressed, obviously in the ways you think they should, instead of adressing them yourself. Which you could.

But you don't want to, because you don't care.
All you have is an opinion.

like, holy ****, "ccp needs to make new tutorials" is a completely empty sentence without value, ignoring that they did a few times already without fixing the underlying issues! And you here proclaim "what you think you know and what you know are two different things". Holy **** batman, stop being an ignorant servant like the rest of them!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2016-08-20 09:41:22 UTC
As I said. What you think you know and what you know are two entirely different things. Since you've already shown me there is no point in trying to talk to you because you think you have it all figured out, I won't waste my time :) Keep flamin'

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Solecist Project
#268 - 2016-08-20 10:39:55 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
As I said. What you think you know and what you know are two entirely different things. Since you've already shown me there is no point in trying to talk to you because you think you have it all figured out, I won't waste my time :) Keep flamin'

You obviously only ever apply this to others ...
... else you knew that it applies to you here.

You repeat the same things others have repeated ovee the years ...
... ignoring that it never fixed the issue ...
... and you're even smug about it.

Throwing around phrases that allow you to run away seems to be your thing, i guess.

And worse, you mistake my words for flaming.
I know, weaklings call everyone who opposes their nonsense trolls, etc ...
... but there is no need to be so insecure that you have to bug out.

It's the internet. I won't hurt you. I promise. :)

So do you have any actual things to say or are those empty, continuously heard phrases above all you have?

Clearly you think you know what or hey they should replace the NPE (with).

So?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2016-08-20 10:51:10 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Then I want it to stay true to its roots, otherwise it's not EVE. You came so close to getting it, and then somehow managed to miss completely. EVE dies when it becomes something that's not EVE, do you understand? If EVE has to become something it's not, at its core, to attract new players, then that's fine, but EVE still dies. Whether it becomes something else, or it dies of naturaly causes, it still dies either way. I'm not saying it can't change, or grow up, but it has to be change that acknowledges the nature of EVE, change that drives the conflict and the PVP and the social dynamic that is its core experience.

I do understand where you are coming from. I just disagree.


You don't get to disagree with the gaming experience I want. If EVE becomes something other than the gaming experience that I originally subscribed to, then it becomes a game called EVE Online by name only, but aside from that, not the game I subscribed to. It becomes something else.

You know how Konami is trying to turn Metal Gear into a zombie survival game now? That's not Metal Gear, it's a zombie game with the name Metal Gear.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2016-08-20 10:56:02 UTC
Good fight Solecist :)



The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2016-08-20 11:09:48 UTC
Solecist is the master of "..."...
i humbly bow to said master...
ready to follow him in any war...
wherever, whenever, forever...
amen. ..

Shocked
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2016-08-20 11:12:52 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Solecist is the master of "..."...
i humbly bow to said master...
ready to follow him in any war...
wherever, whenever, forever...
amen. ..

Shocked




Oh I know what Solecist is lol :)



And that's fine that he chooses to be that. His game, he can play it his way. I just don't have to play his game.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#273 - 2016-08-20 11:13:46 UTC
Make another server.

So players can decide if to begin here or in a brand new server.

Pros and cons.

Here everyone is forced to deal with bored veterans, some become helpful, some become nasty.
Solecist Project
#274 - 2016-08-20 11:29:26 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Good fight Solecist :)

Meh, we can do better than that.

I know you're in Scope. I am aware of Scope and CAS (of which you're aware as well) are the best communities out there and absolutely a sign of how it needs to be done to improve retention-rate*.

The last wave of the NPE, Opportunities, were primarily meant to increase retention-rate ...
... not to teach ...
... which needs to he taken into account.

The tutorials whole purpose wasn't teaching, either. It was increasing retention rate by the means of addressing all those who struggle with learning by themselves. (which is inargueably possible)

The opportunities intend to "show the world", "inspire" and "encourage activity".

See ... if you had said anything based on your experience with Scope this would have started completely differently. The tutorials are "fine" as is, there will always be complainers to which you have been probably talking quite a lot. Consider the primary goal of the tutorials, increasing player retention*, to move aside that they are flawed in terms of teaching.

Also please always consider that CCP barely has any idea what to do ...
... and that they've spent the last years trying to figure it out.

Rubicon, iirc, marks the beginning of the "new era".
Since then they attempt, test, experiment and learn about how they could make more players stick for a long time.

And now I ask you, sincerely...


Why you would want any these things you've mentioned addressed?
Are you really sure there aren't better ways to increase retention-rate*?


And after that I will tell you how you are a part of the literal goldmine ...
... not seeing the trees because of all the wood.

k? :)


*( A freshly subbed new player is more than a gain in subscriptions. It's a loss of ckncerns as well.

He is committed, which means that the teaching part is fully covered. He will learn, because there's no way he won't. The amount of people committing to a sub without even knowing if they can learn the game is a neglectable sub1%. Proof is that 99.9% players you come across know well enough about game mechanics to keep playing.

That is why the primary goal isn't teaching, but retention-rate ...
... and why there are better ways of reaching that goal than redoing the same old ****. Again.)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#275 - 2016-08-20 11:34:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
EVE is a PVP game through and through, there are very little activities within EVE that are pure PVE. Having PVE doesn't somehow prove that this game isn't about PVP.

In fact, PVE in EVE was literally an after thought. This is easily proven by how ****** the NPC are and how even more ****** and terrible they were for the first decade of the game. CCP went "oh crap uhm PVE you say... we'll just sprinkle in some NPC with basic AI and it'll be done, who cares" kind of way. The AI, quality of the missions etc etc is crap because it never was CCP's goal to make it good, because PVE wasn't a focus at all.

This all doesn't mean you can't do or aren't allowed to do PVE. You can focus on PVE just fine and perhaps even get away with it but stating that EVE is a PVE game is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALA I can't HEAR you!". Reality doesn't go away if you close your eyes and wish it to vanish.



Oh look another one utterly and completely ignoring the op and jumping on the bandwagon with other regulars turning this into another threadnaught about pvp vs pve.....which wasn't the point of the thread.

So we have some trying to come up with suggestions about getting and keeping players in the game, and others intent on derailing the thread and getting it locked....way to go :/


Discussions can change as they go along, deal with it. In fact, a quick glance shows that you post about the PVP<>PVE thing yourself. You just don't like what I stated and like all carebears would rather that people who don't agree with you (especially if they make good points) would shut up.

Because that is the carebear way: Stifle any sort of competitive interaction.



Carebear..erm no. Industrialist, Missioner, Explorer, Miner yes.

Yes I have posted about pvp vs pve before..IN AN APPROPRIATE THREAD.

I have never said this isn't a pvp game either, what I have pointed out is the fact that it isn't purely a pvp game.

I have pointed out the packs available to new players that don't scream pvp. I have mentioned the marketing by CCP that doesn't say this is purely a pvp game, others have pointed out facts that point to this not just being a pvp game.

Look at the releases over the last few years, have any screamed to the public COME JOIN THE ULTIMATE PVP GAME? No they haven't, what they have said is come join eve and explore and build stuff etc.

Showing a few battles doesn't show that the game is just about pvp.

I'll reiterate what I already said, if CCP seriously believe that the core concept of the game is pvp, then market it as such. Put it on the front page of the site, put it on the front page of the new player faq's, hell even putting the new player faq's where they can been instantly seen by prospective players would help.

Players as blinkered as yourself though will never accept it, i'm not the one in the corner going lalala.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Solecist Project
#276 - 2016-08-20 11:56:49 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
I have pointed out the packs available to new players that don't scream pvp.

THIS! YES! I've been mentioning this very often! Six bucks miner packs!
Account codes with prototype booster, skillbooks and a venture!

It's nuts!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2016-08-20 12:11:34 UTC
So you can be civil. The moment you start going back into your usual I'm shutting the conversation down again, fair?



You're right, Scope and CAS are about as good as it gets in terms of activity/people coming going/staying. But that's not really a factor in terms of the tutorials, and opportunities.

I've spent the better part of my time in Cistuveart over the last few weeks. I've taken breaks from the rest of the game and vacation here for a week or two every few months. I do enjoy this system, for what it is.



You say that the job of teaching is supposed to be done by players. I don't disagree.


However, if you were to spend a few days floating around Cistuvaert, there is a big problem with that. There aren't many older players that want to be bothered with teaching new players. Sure you have the Eve uni recruiter who comes by from time to time, and the horde guy and Karma fleet guy, but by and large, there are not older players here doing that teaching. Mostly just couple month old players trying to recruit for their mining corps. I'm sure it's worse in less populated schools.



Brand new players get dropped here in Cistuveart. They get dropped in space with the 'I'm your career agent come talk to me in so and so' mail, and nothing but other new players and players that know just enough to do more harm than good to 'teach them.'


So they turn to the only thing they have: Either winging it and hoping for the best, or the opportunities/career agents. Last character I ran through the tutorials was a year or so ago so I remembered what they were like. They're really quite poor. All text, not exciting or engaging, barely have useful information. That's if a new player can even figure out where and how to get to the career agent. That little mail that says go to Clellinon.... they've forgotten about it and don't know how to set a destination anyway.



Right now I've got 77 people in Cistuveart(steam free weekend). Nothing is going on in local chat. No one is helping new players here at the moment, and they're not asking for help, because they're trying to do the opportunities. When the few of us who I see around here with any regularity try, we either have language barriers or there are just sooooooo many questions we can't get ot them all. Last time I was in the help channels it was the same.



The problem with a 'players should do the teaching' system, which I agree would be best, is that simply put, there aren't enough players doing that teaching, or many are definitely not teaching well. The tutorials are a tool that can and should be used to teach the basics, to help a new person figure out where they are, what station and stargate is, what a rat is, and the basics of how to handle their ship, so they can at least undock and know what they're looking at. But they are old and crap and need redone. CCP has spent a fair bit of time doing a whole collection of video's on all kinds of subjects. They don't cover everything, but they are on youtube and are pretty decent for what a new player needs to know. These video's need worked into the in game tutorials, not just left to sit on some youtube channel. Reading walls of text over and over is boring AF. having a quick 3 minute vid show it all to you i so much more effective.


Again, players doing this would be best.... but..... not many will. So a tool is needed to cover this most basic function, help get new players at least flying their ship the right way, so the players who ARE trying to fill that roll can start actually doing some of that social part of an MMO, not starting to get irritated with explaining what a star gate is for the 16th time today.



The other thing is why are players being started 3 or 4 jumps from where the tutorials actually are. They've logged in. Awesome! They've docked/undocked. Good..... now what? The tutorials can provide that first bit of direction and 'what is this thing' that there are just not enough older players out here to do.



Scope likely retains people slightly better because of the personalities it attracts. You go through your character selection, and you can either be the Imperial Amarr, the Rebel/Freedom Fighter Minmatar, the Corporate Caldari, or the Defenders of Freedom Gallente. Each of those descriptions draws to a different type of personality. Scope attracts personalities that occasionally do things, just because. A guy in Scope was running Sisters standings missions the other day for Scope. I routinely go and do Orca/Claymore boosts in noob systems. Guys used to organize Scope fleets. I don't have Empirical data to confirm it, but scope seems to attract more 'Do stuff/help people' personalities.






The main problem with the tutorials and opportunities, is they directly clash, in a role they need to be focused and work together on. 'Go here to do tutorials' ' do this and this and this and this to check things off the map.' They need streamlined into one process.There aren't enough players out here doing that teaching job. CCP has the means and tools to provide that most basic direction. They've already done quite a bit of it, and it's not bad at all. But it's all out of game and not immediately accessible. Now CCP needs to go back, gut the old system, take all the great work they've done out of game, and put it in the game. Also actively recruiting more ISD/help channel helpers would be a huge step forward. I've filled that application out. But didn't submit it. Wasn't sure what I was doing in the game at the time. I do not suggest that it's all 100% on CCP. I do suggest that based on what I see on a day to day basis, there are just not enough players who want to do that job. So since that's the bottleneck, CCP has the ability to do the whole First few hours of the NPE so much better. It just needs to be done.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#278 - 2016-08-20 12:43:50 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Max Fubarticus wrote:
The community reinforces that by knocking over other players sandcastles and creating a wide variety of content. Not hard really.
Uh...right. I was going to say this was logic Trump would love.
Then, I saw this....
Max Fubarticus wrote:
You could community organize, write petitions, threaten CCP with a boycott, create snappy slogans like "Noob Lives Matter" and march around with signs, riot and loot,create safe spaces,in-game pop up dialogue box with trigger warnings, and last but not least...a single toilet open to all regardless of the pronoun that precedes you characters name.
It's probably wise to leave the US's political dysfunction at the door.

Meanwhile, back to discussing the issue at hand...instead of yucking about those "inferior" to "us"....


LOL. I am sooo. hurt. Not.

Zoot: Welcome, gentle sir Knight. Welcome to the Castle Anthrax.
Sir Galahad: The Castle Anthrax?
Zoot: Yes, it's not a very good name, is it? Oh, but we are nice, and we will attend to your every, every need.
Zoot: Oh, I am afraid our life must seem very dull and quiet compared to yours. We are but eight-score young blonds and brunettes, all between 16 and 19 1/2, cut off in this castle with no one to protect us. Oooh, it is a lonely life: Bathing, dressing, undressing, making exciting underwear. We are just not used to handsome knights.
Dingo: You must spank her well, and after you are done with her, you may deal with her as you like, and then spank me.
Nuns: And me. And me too. And me.
Dingo: Yes. Yes, you must give us all a good spanking. And after the spanking, the oral sex.
Galahad: Well, I could stay a bit longer.
[Sir Lancelot crashes in, grabs Galahad and rushes out of the castle]
Lancelot: We were in the nick of time. You were in great peril.
Galahad: I don't think I was.
Lancelot: Yes, you were. You were in terrible peril.
Galahad: Look, let me go back in there and face the peril.
Lancelot: No, it's far too perilous.
Galahad: Look, it's my duty as a knight to sample as much peril as I can.
Lancelot: No, we've got to find the Holy Grail. Come on.
Galahad: Oh, let me have just a little bit of peril?
Lancelot: No. It's unhealthy.
Galahad: I bet you're gay.
Lancelot: No, I'm not.

(Monty Python, Holy Grail )

You mean like these fictional dysfunctional chaps?

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Solecist Project
#279 - 2016-08-20 13:39:59 UTC
That's a lot to adress, but before i get to that do i have to wonder:

Why aren't you trying to grab some and just do something?

I can do that if you want to?
in 30 minutes?

Tell them to get frigates and gather at a place around there, i will come and pick them up.
Anyone who can fit a combat probe launcher and knows how to use them should do so.

More after my arrival.


...

This isn't meant insulting or condescending, but ...
it's really not that ******* hard to just ask for people to pick them up.
The rest works out by itself.

The "learning by doing" approach works for the vast majority of people.

Okay so now it's ... okay... at 14:15? What time is it... aaahhhh ... lol

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2016-08-20 13:45:26 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
That's a lot to adress, but before i get to that do i have to wonder:

Why aren't you trying to grab some and just do something?

I can do that if you want to?
in 30 minutes?

Tell them to get frigates and gather at a place around there, i will come and pick them up.
Anyone who can fit a combat probe launcher and knows how to use them should do so.

More after my arrival.


...

This isn't meant insulting or condescending, but ...
it's really not that ******* hard to just ask for people to pick them up.
The rest works out by itself.

The "learning by doing" approach works for the vast majority of people.

Okay so now it's ... okay... at 14:15? What time is it... aaahhhh ... lol



I do. I have sat in this system for hours at a time trying to answer questions and give fleet boosts and just general whatever cause I'm here. But there is a limit on what a few people can do, be it time in the day, needing a break, RL stuff calling, anything. There are just not enough people here to 'do the job' :/

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal