EVE General Discussion

Jump Fatigue destroyed 0.0 in some ways, saved it in others. Before it was possible to have both a safe ratting space and content within 5 minutes, now instances where this is sustainable are at best, academic, you have to pick one or the other.

Hopefully the Rorqual changes will further make HS mining totally undesirable. The more people are forced out of HS, the more likely they will find EvE the social game and the risk game, rather than just the progress bar game.

While there's not really any consequence to ganking, there really shouldn't be either. If you made it too penalizing, you'd run out of gankers too fast - gankers are part of a healthy content ecosystem. They made it much harder by making it far less profitable than it used to be. If miners leave a sandbox, because it is a sandbox, not much can really ever be done. It's even more damaging if they say they want an empty sandbox and throw a tantrum, which CCP actually listens to, so not only do they stop playing, they take away all the sand when leaving. Really the best thing that can happen to the game is having Rorquals absolutely crash the minerals market, while simultaneously removing HS incursions - suddenly all the good ways to play in HS vanish, and thus, people find the real reasons to play - interactions.

Mission ruining is sort of out of date. I mean even if you wanted to do it, it is just outclassed these days. You can make hilarious amounts of LP in FW or by doing L5s, neither of which really expose you to any risk - so why do L4s for less money in a saturated LP market? You can make more LP in a stabbed venture than you can in some battleships running L4s. Why bother?

It's sort of why I'm so amped for the Rorqual changes. Suddenly, there's a good (better) risk ~ reward paradigm in a game that honestly lacks them entirely. Hopefully they won't walk back on them after the mineral market tanks.

Where is the evidence for this?

You say miners no longer mine in large groups, well that would be because they no longer have to because the only threats to them have either been heavily nerfed or removed entirely. They don't mine in groups or even talk to each other because they don't have to.



They made a lot of changes to make highsec much safer before they based their approach on data. What the data shows is that their assumptions that things like ganking is bad for the game were entirely wrong and that it actually benefits the game.




And what they will find is a game where you spend hours in a belt chewing on rocks with nothing else happening. Their only risk comes from a terrorist organisation that can only continue so long as people keep on donating money to it. They will quit because its boring.


Sheep is about all thats left now. We have a handful of organisation left that are ganking, war dec mercs are relegated to mass decking and hoping their prey comes to them because they cant hunt anymore and everything else that used to happen is now gone.

Subs are down because CCP listened to the likes of you and removed most of the content highsec used to have and made the game boring.

They don't mine in groups or by themselves. Most of them have gone. They left, got sick of getting to the top of their profession only to be blown away by some alts in cheap ships.

Risk vs Reward. All the risk is the miners as the gankers just trash their characters and start again. The gankers got richer and the miners poorer so the miners left.


No they made exhumers made out of tin foil and made destroyers and other ship a lot more powerful so that a couple of destroyers could blow a few hundred million or a billion worth of ship out of the sky. Then the subs fell more and they suddenly started to go in the other direction.


Actually they wont, what you may call boring a large number of people call enjoyable. Just because Hi-Sec might actually start to be Hi-Sec and not the equivalent of a lawless ghetto is a good thing. If it was meant to have people getting slaughtered everywhere then it should be lo-sec and remove hi-sec all together and let people gank the gankers. Oh but then the gankers might quit because people can shoot at them.


If sheep are all that is left why are the mining belts so empty? The outer hi-sec regions are completely empty.
If there were so many sheep the price of minerals would be in the gutter, however hi-sec minerals like Tritium have had a 200% increase in the last 5 years. Why, more PVPers compared to miners.

The problem was they listened to Null Sec and gankers for too long and now those people are not enough to support the game.

Actually there is no benefit to mine in groups.

- Having only 10-15 seconds to react to suicide aggression you won't even be able to lock suicider and launch drones. Add here that suicider will die anyway.
=> group cannot protect themself

- jetcan mining is too dangerous. Too many experienced suspect-baiters with logi/OGB/etc around.

On the other hand:
- high-sec rocks are too small. Miners will always need to coordinate their actions to not mine the same roids.

I think this is only part of an idea.

The whole idea is that gankers have no consequences for their actions. It does not matter how they evade it (tho recycling alts is prohibited).

You seem to be new here. It was discussed many times ago. No reasons to repeat it again.

Gankers are mostly gone, notice that it has been years since the last ice interdiction and hulkageddon? Notice the utter lack of profitable barge ganking. Equally miners also quit because their gameplay is downright boring now. Nothing ever challenges them, nothing rewards a miner for being good at either fitting their ship or being good at actual mining. All of the hard challenging stuff has been removed. Hell, even the barges themselves don't allow for customisation, CCP have literally fitted them for you.

Want miners to not only come back but to stay? Then they need content and the best content they have ever had came from the very PvP you hate. CCP made it clear, people who get ganked are more likely to stay longer and 85% of people who quit do so having done no PvP. We need that content back.



The Hulk used to be able to fit a 32-36k EHP tank USING T2 mods and T1 rigs. Todays that same hulk gets only a 26k EHP tank with T2 mods and T2 rigs and requires a fitting mod or rig to actually use all of its fitting slots. Todays hulk is worse than the one you think had a "tin foil" tank.



Tell me, what do high sec miners have to enjoy in todays game?



Because a large number of people who did both have quit. Mining, hauling and mission running has far less content than it did before but they do at least have content. People who used to be mining pirates saw their entire gameplay option removed so they no longer exist at all.

This is something you don't get, PvP provides content to both parties, a miner who had his can flipped and dcides to fight back is both getting and giving content from and to others. The ships killed provides content to ship and mod builders, this in turn creates more content for miners. Remove the PvP and you remove a lot of content from a lot of people.

All I can say is if you think miners like to be ganked, to make their game more interesting. Well it is obvious you don't know many miners. Mining is something you can do to "Play" a game, when you are to knackered from work or for that matter are still doing work.

And that has ben the problem for so long. CCP listening to people who "know best" and we ended up with a hi-sec that was lo-sec and players leaving in droves.

You want players to kill players, want them to ruin someone elses day to make them selves feel better. Fine, that was what lo-sec was made for..

Yeah, I remember some years ago, you'd always find a miner or two in nearly EVERY high sec system. If you were mining yourself, it'd become a race to to see who could strip the belts first (and leave the rags behind).

These days, you can mine at your leisure. It's kinda sad.

^ Interesting stats. Makes me wonder where all the mining is being done then.